Rabbit pairing help

Hi just stumbled on your site after a few hours net reading and found most ofthe best advise here so, hi my name is vic nice to meet you all!!

anyway we got a rabbit about 3 weeks ago, called him frank. and ive absolutley fallen in love with him lol he is amazing! i had rabbits when i was a kid but now im almost 30 and ive just noticed they are actualy smart caring pets!

we wanted a house rabbit so we bought a 1.5m by around a 1/2m cage and decided to keep him in the back hall, weve had frank 3 weeks now and 2 weeks ago a big freeze hit, now im up most of the night (because of my work, and im outta action for 3 months ) and last week i went to check on him and he was totaly freezing, i mean i flinched when i touched his wee ear.

so i said F it hes going in the living room at least untill the snow left lol i thought my gf would have something to say about but she was fine with it. over this last week or so ive realy bonded with him, he is a wee licking machine! and better yet ive managed to litter train him with a little high backed plastic box that he even uses when in his cage!

now to the point! sorry btw.

we talked about getting him a friend (i now know its ALOT more complex than that and they can breed from 14 weeks!) and we were in the shop getting new water bottle (the one i got with the cage was faulty!) the guy totaly talked us into buying this beautiful looking wee lop eared, now i had told him about frank and what hes like and he told me a mate would be perfect, and this little lop was female (havnt decided on a name yet but im thinking Sash) i asked him what age they would breed at and he told me around 20 weeks, and i could spay her at 16.

i put sash on the floor, scared after the car journey, in front of franks cage and let them sniff through the cage. but once i let frank out he started humping her head! so i pushed him off and said no! she like frank seems to realy like getting petted and handled, but hasnt licked us yet. i didnt realy know how to tackle this problem and i also know the guy in the shop has filled me full of s**t! i learned more in 5 mins on this site than the 20 mins he talked to me for, to be honest if ida knew ida needed 2 cages i dont think ida got another rabbit but i think he knew that and made the sale.

anyway i realy want this to work and they dont seem too bad with each other now, i mean he tries to mount her and she runs away, he feeds for a bit then tries again! when the cage is open she jumps out and when its clsed she stomps her foot realy hard and scares him they look awakard for a while till they feed again, i know this is not a good sign, but there must be a way to make it work?

sorry for the essay at 1am but i dont have anywhere else to put her (i have a box, but it would be cruel for her to spend the night in, its pretty big tho, about 3/4 the size of the cage) what should i do and if i leave them in the cage unattended what will happen? lol im scared they will hurt each other or get pregnant!

I would not try bonding them until they've both been spayed and neutered. The hormonal behaviour that will come can make them aggressive and they could hurt each other if something happens. I would suggest building a safe zone for your new bun in a different room using NIC panels to save you the money on a new cage and while you wait for them to be old enough to be done you can have them meet in the doorway through a barrier to avoid any danger of them biting each other but allows them to interact and get used to each other.

I could be wayyyyy off and there's way more experienced people on this forum by far but we just recently bonded our two buns this way and they are best friends now. It takes a lot of patience and it was tough having our house split up into different rooms with pens and bunnies everywhere but now that we got through it was totally worth it. Hope this helps a little bit and like I said... guaranteed someone who will be along shortly with wayyyy more experience!

Rabbits can breed a lot earlier so be careful. I would let them live near each other but not interact other than through bars. Getting them both neutered is the best way to go.
Males are still fertile for about 6 weeks after they've been 'done' though. And try to find a vet who is good with rabbits as they're actually classed as exotic pets and most vets don't know more than the basics.

I think you've done a great thing getting him a friend. Rabbits are so happy in pairs. It might be a little bit of a pain until at least one of them is neutered but it'll be worthwhile in the end. :wave:

Hi Vic,

It's good to see that you care so much about your buns. They do make amazing pets - but are hard work and quite complex little beings.

Whereabouts do you live? There may be someone on here who could help you with bonding when the time is right.

victim said:

Hi just stumbled on your site after a few hours net reading and found most ofthe best advise here so, hi my name is vic nice to meet you all!!

anyway we got a rabbit about 3 weeks ago, called him frank. and ive absolutley fallen in love with him lol he is amazing! i had rabbits when i was a kid but now im almost 30 and ive just noticed they are actualy smart caring pets!

we wanted a house rabbit so we bought a 1.5m by around a 1/2m cage and decided to keep him in the back hall, weve had frank 3 weeks now and 2 weeks ago a big freeze hit, now im up most of the night (because of my work, and im outta action for 3 months ) and last week i went to check on him and he was totaly freezing, i mean i flinched when i touched his wee ear.

so i said F it hes going in the living room at least untill the snow left lol i thought my gf would have something to say about but she was fine with it. over this last week or so ive realy bonded with him, he is a wee licking machine! and better yet ive managed to litter train him with a little high backed plastic box that he even uses when in his cage!

now to the point! sorry btw.

we talked about getting him a friend (i now know its ALOT more complex than that and they can breed from 14 weeks!) and we were in the shop getting new water bottle (the one i got with the cage was faulty!) the guy totaly talked us into buying this beautiful looking wee lop eared, now i had told him about frank and what hes like and he told me a mate would be perfect, and this little lop was female (havnt decided on a name yet but im thinking Sash) i asked him what age they would breed at and he told me around 20 weeks, and i could spay her at 16.

i put sash on the floor, scared after the car journey, in front of franks cage and let them sniff through the cage. but once i let frank out he started humping her head! so i pushed him off and said no! she like frank seems to realy like getting petted and handled, but hasnt licked us yet. i didnt realy know how to tackle this problem and i also know the guy in the shop has filled me full of s**t! i learned more in 5 mins on this site than the 20 mins he talked to me for, to be honest if ida knew ida needed 2 cages i dont think ida got another rabbit but i think he knew that and made the sale.

anyway i realy want this to work and they dont seem too bad with each other now, i mean he tries to mount her and she runs away, he feeds for a bit then tries again! when the cage is open she jumps out and when its clsed she stomps her foot realy hard and scares him they look awakard for a while till they feed again, i know this is not a good sign, but there must be a way to make it work?

sorry for the essay at 1am but i dont have anywhere else to put her (i have a box, but it would be cruel for her to spend the night in, its pretty big tho, about 3/4 the size of the cage) what should i do and if i leave them in the cage unattended what will happen? lol im scared they will hurt each other or get pregnant!

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:wave: So if I am reading this right, you are currently housing a buck in a 1.5m x 0.5m cage - presumably he is allowed to run around the house? You've bought a young doe and are hoping to house 2 rabbits in that size cage unneutered ?? You brought the doe home from the pet shop and put her straight in with your buck who mounted her head and your wondering what to do ?

Straight away you need to get another cage or a couple of puppy pens and separate these two rabbits. What you've done inadvertently maybe is put the doe at serious risk of harm, even if she isn't injured by the buck, she is most likely going to be alarmed about a sudden change in environment and as a very young doe a bit fearful of a larger buck trying to mount her - even her head. If she gets pregnant she may not be the right breed of rabbit (size wise) to carry and deliver this bucks kits and she could die.

Both rabbits need to be neutered ideally before bonding and you should give the doe at least a couple of weeks to settle in before you introduce her IMO.

By the way the cage you have I think sounds very small for one rabbit let alone two - the puppy pens aren't ideal but, at least allow a bit more movement.

I'm going to say something a bit different here... As you have only just got this rabbit today I would say take her back (they will let you, they have to). You are not prepared for her and it will be much easier to just have the male. Then after he is neutered and infertile get a (spayed) doe from a rescue that will bond them there for you. When they have done this you can bring them both home and they can live together happily. This way also allows your bun to 'date' bunnies till you find one where they really like each other - remember your type of bunny may not be his type! :lol:

I assume you have a carrier? Put her in a bunny-proofed room (separate from him) and let her free-range in it, with the carrier filled with hay. You might want to make this the kitchen as she wont be litter-trained so will probably toilet somewhere. That should be enough for tonight. Obviously provide food water in a bowl etc.

If you really want to keep her I agree with the advice above - also be aware that this may upset his toilet training habits, as he can smell another rabbit in the house so may mark his territory.

Also if your rabbits are cold, consider getting a snugglesafe although its not really needed indoors usually.
http://www.petsathome.com/shop/microwaveable-heat-pad-by-snugglesafe-14092

nessar said:

I'm going to say something a bit different here... As you have only just got this rabbit today I would say take her back (they will let you, they have to). You are not prepared for her and it will be much easier to just have the male. Then after he is neutered and infertile get a (spayed) doe from a rescue that will bond them there for you. When they have done this you can bring them both home and they can live together happily. This way also allows your bun to 'date' bunnies till you find one where they really like each other - remember your type of bunny may not be his type! :lol:

I assume you have a carrier? Put her in a bunny-proofed room (separate from him) and let her free-range in it, with the carrier filled with hay. You might want to make this the kitchen as she wont be litter-trained so will probably toilet somewhere. That should be enough for tonight. Obviously provide food water in a bowl etc.

If you really want to keep her I agree with the advice above - also be aware that this may upset his toilet training habits, as he can smell another rabbit in the house so may mark his territory.

Also if your rabbits are cold, consider getting a snugglesafe although its not really needed indoors usually.
http://www.petsathome.com/shop/microwaveable-heat-pad-by-snugglesafe-14092

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Thats good advice, it's a pity for the little doe that she has endured the stress of it all to be returned but, I can see the logic in this, it is going to prove difficult to house them unneutered safely and you still have a while yet before she can go in etc Shame but, for the best probably.

I will assume that (like me) you woud by now have fallen in love with the female and feel that it would be cruel to take the poor soul back. I would also mention that although I can see that maybe on the face of it the sensible option would be to take her back it may lead to her getting upset and going into stassis - which a rubbish pet shop may not notice. Or she may become very upset and aggressive and never get another home (we will not mention what happens to petshop buns who get left 'on the shelf')

Now you have two buns (hopefully eventually a pair) you will have to work with it!!l

First separate them immediately in case he is already fertile.

Then go to nearest pet shop OR go online and order a second dog crate (or first if you do not already have one!). Get it as large as possible (4ft is usually the largest). It does sound like you may need to order two!!

As soon as they arrive install one bun in one and one bun in the other - then start to adapt them making a 'platform (Second storey), and interesting play bits and ramps etc. Dn't forget the litter tray of HAY.

Then find the phone number of a GOOD rabbit vet (post thread on here for location of one) and book the male in to be neutered as soon as he is ready. (usually 3-4 months).

In the meantime only let them out to run around when the other is locked up!!!

Some people would then recommend you wait until she is spayed (6 months old) before attempting to bond them - but others will say 4weeks after his neuter might be ok (she will be a bit hormonal by then but he should have settled).

Once you have got to this stage come back for more advice on BONDING!! (its not straightforward but is very rewarding).

Good Luck!! And have fun watching your two bundles of fluff grow up.

hi and thanks everyone! well my net went down for a few days there so i had to put my own mind to it lol
btw im in belfast any good vets numbers plz?

ok so a few more details before my update, i left out the ages frank is the male and the smaller of the two and is around 14 weeks, and jess (the GF didnt like sash) is the female and shes a big fat lop around 12 weeks! frank is in his cage in my living room and its only locked during my sleep times so he has free run and they get out the back on the grass for at least an hour a day (will be much more when it warms up) untill jess arrived i think frank thought he was one of us! jess is now in a cage in the kitchen and shes only locked at night (maybe in a few months and when im 100% happy with my bunny profing the cages will never be locked)

my whole downstairs has been bunny-profed! ive blocked up the big 3 seater sofa and built (cardboard) a giant H style tunnel that fits under the 2 seater, all wires are non-accessible and the first shelf of my tv unit has been stacked with books lol

anyway here goes!

so that night i was afraid to sleep incase they hurt each other, i mean they wernt that bad after a few hours running around the living room together but he kept trying to hump her the wrong way and she would run and if cornered stomp and scare the droppings outta the wee man! my only soloution was to keep her in a box but i realy didnt want to, i hate the whole confined thing.
then i had a brain storm! cut the box up and bunny-proofed the kitchen with it! which worked a treat! i went and bought another cage the next day for jess and keep her in the kitchen. i bring her into the living room with frank in the evenings.
jess has still to warm up to us, she is very cheeky (the first night i thought she liked getting petted but i think she was just scared) if i go to stroke her she bolts as where frank will just lay down and enjoy, so weve started nursing jess and feeding her treats while she sits with us (she loves dried corn!) i think jess might have nipped frank as he is now a little scared of her and hasnt tried to hump her again.
we were gona take her back but to be honest i didnt want the trauma of thursday and friday to be for nothing, also i wont let her know it but i kinda like her cheeky side! but i dont like thats shes afraid of me, i know ive only had her 4 days now but frank warmed up after 3, so im just gona give her time and keep her no matter what, anyway i sorta like a challenge and with all this free time upto to feb/march it would be cruel and lazy not to at least try!

as for pairing i realy think its gonna work! when i take them out back together now theres no humping, alot of sniffing but no rough stuff! which is a result in my mind! and when i go into the kitchen to spy (lol) on them all they do is follow each other around sniff and eat, i even caught them grooming each other!! this is good right? also i had her in the livng room with him tonight and they were cool, even playful with each other, i have high hopes for my babbits and am very happy we bought them over a dog, but still i have worries.

i know i jumped the gun when i put them together but my mistake taught me quite alot about animals, and it will never be repeated! and i thought all animals were just dumb crapping machines! an i for idiot bob!

anway after reading alot about breeding ages today im scared jess might be pregnant, not just because there might be a litter (if there is i will keep them all as outside rabbits) but shes only around 12 weeks and that cant be good for her developing body, atm im reading into it but there is as much BS on the net as good adivse, but ALL input is welcome, please let me know what signs i should be looking for.
also if i fix frank will his personality change? it would break my heart if i fixed him and he changed but it seems if i want them paired quickly this is my only option? so hes maybe 14 weeks old and her 12 and i understand hes ready to be fixed now but another 2 months for her?

and thank you for all your advise and replys!

@thebuz; yes friend ive sealed off 2 rooms with cardboard, i know it wont last but it sorta works for now.. until they figure it out! as for pairing, now theyve spent a bit of time together and seem non aggressive, do you think i should keep them seperate (i am constantly watching them when they are together) untill they are ready to live together?

@Jenova; thanks for your reply, the last part made me smile. same question as above tho.

@Rhianna; thanks also; and i live in belfast northern ireland

@VickiP; i know ive been a fool! lol there wasnt much deep thought process going on when i got them but dont worry i will take good care of them! and as for the cage thing, he is very small (i think a dwarf?) and yes he gets to run and binky all over the room anytime he likes, but i do think the cage will be too small for them both when they pair and age, i have an idea to merge the cages by cutting a hole in the base and putting one in the cupboard under the stairs (for sleeping and eating) then join it through the door to the larger cage with a tunnel, and this will be for treats and toys, toilet and the exit to the room. hows that sound?

@nessar; yea im deff gona keep her, and i done the kitchen thing lol she pooped every where, she seems to not have a spot in her cage either, its absolutley every where lol but she only pees in the toilet but also sleeps in there... i dunno wtf thats about cause she poos in her bed?

@parsnipbun; my friend you were right on the money! i couldnt take herback without hating myself! as for the crate thing, my house is very small ive had to change alot around just for their small cages but i dont mind ya know cause its pure joy to be watching tv and a binkieing babbit comes flying past lol we love it! and after reading your post again much of whats above is invalidad im afraid of how far i gotta scroll up , i will keep them totaly seprate but maybe push their cages topgether at night? he is ready to get fixed but im totaly terrified it will change him and also that the deed is already done and shes pregnant! im still very worried!
aah yes the crate thing, my idea is this.
around feb i am going to build them a large pen in the garden (around 7ft by 14ft) half of which will be nothing but grass (im hoping theyll trim it for me) and also im thinking about putting a permanent bed in the shed with a cut out leading into the pen so they should have plenty of room to be happy and healthy!

damn ive been writing this for 30 mins, sorry and thank you all very much!

Glad to see you're getting a ton of entertainment from your new buns. I think that the non-aggression is a good sign however they are still young and if hormones haven't kicked in already it can cause a problem. I would be very worried about pregnancy as they can literally get pregnant at the drop of a hat. If she isn't pregnant then you really want to ensure to keep it that way.

Female bunnies do get spayed later than a male so it's hard having to wait for the extra time but if they have lots of time to interact even if it's through a barrier it will be worth it later on to have them as a loving pair. Our two are so sweet now that they are loved up and we had had the female for 4 years as a solo bun. We thought she was happy but now that she has a partner she is sooooo content. I hope that things are still going well and I hope more will be on with more expertise.

I would have kept the buns too if I were you. I could never return an animal once I've brought it home!!!

Cant remember everything you said but here is what I will say:

1. take her to the vets immediately. Explain the situation, check for pregnancy. If pregnant ask whether an emergency spay would be appropriate. You should get all new rabbits checked over by a vet anyway. Keep them SEPARATE, do not let them run around together, just a cheeky hump whilst youre looking the other way could result in Jess dead from pregnancy complications, if shes fertile that is. Like I said consult a vet.

2. She is marking her teritory with her poos. Keeping them near each other will increase the need for marking territory as another stranger rabbit (because they are unbonded) is in their territory. Neutering improves toilet training as well.

3. It wont change his personality. As he reaches adolescence with whole bucks you will notice some of these: attacking you when he is in the cage, aggression out the cage, defensiveness over food, circling your feet humming (means he wants to mate, most likely to happen to your gf), spraying you with wee, spraying your house with wee, loss of toilet training. If you get him neutered this wont happen or will stop 6 weeks after neuter, as it is all hormone related. She will get some of these symptoms too as she gets her hormones. I've just had my buck done recently, if anything he is cuddlier, and he doesnt attack me when I'm near 'his' things as much now.

4. You NEED to get him neutered if he is to have ANY companion. He will hump her (even if shes spayed) if you dont get him neutered, leading most likely to injuries. He will never except another male either, so thats not an option. Also, remember testosterone is the hormone that controls sexual drive and aggression.

5. they will eat through cardboard in 5 minutes if they put their mind to it. Best bet is to get metal. Not sure what you are blocking off but people use babygates covered in wire for doorways or grates/storage/NIC cubes for other areas. Plastic can work if they are not determined. You need to make it IMPOSSIBLE for them to get to each other.

6. Lots of rabbits never become cuddly bunnies, take it slowly with her and work out what she does and doesnt like. Spring greens are a good veg to use as they are nice and long so you can hold it whilst she nibbles, and theyre not fattening for them either. 75p for a HUGE bag in morrisons (I end up throwing half away and my bun gets 2-4 leaves a day).

7. Shed idea is very good, but bear in mind you cant do this till its warm now (I think people reccommend around april) as they dont have winter coats as they are indoors.

hi again
yea the cardboard is just used to block beside the fridge and cooker ect, more as a deterant. also under the sofa lol

and they have been in seprate rooms from sunday but i have had them running around and out back together fs :?, there has been no humping and they even posed for a pic today!

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/615/sam0036c.jpg

they just groom each other now, but i will keep them seprate untill after he gets to neutered, and yea i wont be building the run till mid jan and untill the summer they will only be playing in there.

as for the vet that cant happen untill thursday but im thinking good thoughts

thanks again for your help i will take it all onboard

They are lovely. See his back legs kicked out behind him? That means he's really relaxed looks like when you get around to putting them together eventually it'll be fairly easy.

You might want to take him to the vets with you as well, get them to double check his gender - pet shops make mistakes and the one you got them from doesnt seem too trustworthy! But of course thats not urgent. Also the vet will be able to tell you whether his balls have descended, i.e whether he is fertile or not.

Let us know what happens :wave:

nessar said:

They are lovely. See his back legs kicked out behind him? That means he's really relaxed looks like when you get around to putting them together eventually it'll be fairly easy.

You might want to take him to the vets with you as well, get them to double check his gender - pet shops make mistakes and the one you got them from doesnt seem too trustworthy! But of course thats not urgent. Also the vet will be able to tell you whether his balls have descended, i.e whether he is fertile or not.

Let us know what happens :wave:

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yep the pet shop guy was a total bulls****er, she had to stop me from goin back down to him lol what would i have said? you told me my bunnies couldnt get pregnant yet! lol id look a complete weirdo.

anyway the one kicked out is frank, we had him 3 weeks before jess and hes so adorable lol very affectionate. jess however is very shy and stubborn lol but she binkyd today in the garden for the first time so high hopes

lol listen to me ima total rabbit man now:roll:

and im trying to get them booked into a good vet before the end of the week!
thanks for your support

Sorry, but Ive picked up on something everyone else has missed..... ARGH DRIED CORN! :no: dried corn is not good for buns, they dont digest it and it can cause gut blockages that CAN lead to stasis that CAN lead to death if not fixed (and it cant always be sorted by even the best bun vet). I know they advertise them for buns, its stupid, it really is!

Good luck on everything else though nice to know there are some pet owners in Ireland that care about their pets, I have had nothing but negative experiences with pet welfare there

TeflonsShadow said:

Sorry, but Ive picked up on something everyone else has missed..... ARGH DRIED CORN! :no: dried corn is not good for buns, they dont digest it and it can cause gut blockages that CAN lead to stasis that CAN lead to death if not fixed (and it cant always be sorted by even the best bun vet). I know they advertise them for buns, its stupid, it really is!

Good luck on everything else though nice to know there are some pet owners in Ireland that care about their pets, I have had nothing but negative experiences with pet welfare there

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thanks! yea i only noticed they nip out the white bit on the bottom of the corn and leave all the yellow bits lol smart rabbits! ive already removed it, thanks again.

negative experiences? thats sad to hear i know alot of good pet keepers that love them as part of the family but ive also known some very bad ones

victim said:

thanks! yea i only noticed they nip out the white bit on the bottom of the corn and leave all the yellow bits lol smart rabbits! ive already removed it, thanks again.

negative experiences? thats sad to hear i know alot of good pet keepers that love them as part of the family but ive also known some very bad ones

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Im glad you know some good pet owners, Ive met people who let their dogs wonder the towns, get hit by cars and not get taken to the vet because they're just an animal. I had it explained to me that it was the culture out there.

So glad its not I only went in one pet store and that was awful (O'Connors in Nenagh, Limerick) hope its better by you :wave:

TeflonsShadow said:

Im glad you know some good pet owners, Ive met people who let their dogs wonder the towns, get hit by cars and not get taken to the vet because they're just an animal. I had it explained to me that it was the culture out there.

So glad its not I only went in one pet store and that was awful (O'Connors in Nenagh, Limerick) hope its better by you :wave:

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yea im up in northern ireland lol the big city i suppose
but i do hear alot of dog fights n **** like that down south bad news

update is! both male lol!

just back from the vet haha jessie is a boy! so sorta good news no bunnies! both rabbits very healthy and got jabs n getting fixed and a few weeks, vet said they were the happiest and calmst bunnies she had seen for a while! so lovin it and the bonding is going very well theyll both stay in the same room now sharing a cage thanks for all your help:wave:

victim said:

update is! both male lol!

just back from the vet haha jessie is a boy! so sorta good news no bunnies! both rabbits very healthy and got jabs n getting fixed and a few weeks, vet said they were the happiest and calmst bunnies she had seen for a while! so lovin it and the bonding is going very well theyll both stay in the same room now sharing a cage thanks for all your help:wave:

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Hi ya. I hope I'm reading this right, neither are neutered yet right? You still need to get them neutered. Males will fight to the death in an enclosed space in territorial battles and very nasty injuries can result.