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Poor Thermoregulation

How do you know your bun has poor thermoregulation?

i dont.

it was a suggestion by the vets for Ginger as she's getting really cold, really easily, then gets really hot, like, baking hot. He's not sure at the mo either - she's having additional tests now too.

Just curious about how you'd go about treating it, or coping with it etc.

Wish i'd of made notes whilst at the vets yesterday afternoon. i can't remember anything i was told :(
 
sorry! we posted at the same time.

i don't have bunny experience of it, just human:roll:

hope ginger is ok xx
 
I would say that most buns (especially indoor buns) have quite extreme peripheral temperature changes, but their core temperature stays far more constant than we realise. When you say she gets too hot or too cold - are you judging this by her surface temp? Fur is highly insulating and the ears have huge veins in them that radiate heat away very efficiently so cold ears, although a useful indicator, are not a precise science. The best way to check bun's core temp is either a thermometer up the bum! :shock: (NOT recommended unless you know what you are doing) or popping your fingers through the fur to feel her core heat.

What symptoms are you experiencing?
 
I would say that most buns (especially indoor buns) have quite extreme peripheral temperature changes, but their core temperature stays far more constant than we realise. When you say she gets too hot or too cold - are you judging this by her surface temp? Fur is highly insulating and the ears have huge veins in them that radiate heat away very efficiently so cold ears, although a useful indicator, are not a precise science. The best way to check bun's core temp is either a thermometer up the bum! :shock: (NOT recommended unless you know what you are doing) or popping your fingers through the fur to feel her core heat.

What symptoms are you experiencing?

ice cold ears. and i mean ICE cold. I fluffed up her fur, so i could get to her coat and it was so cold, it was horrible.

She also has a bald patch on her tummy, from her spay where the fur hasn't grown back yet and i could feel the cold there.

She wasn't moving much at all and if i did move her, she'd just sit back down again and refuse to move, even for food. she went to the vets with Biscuit yesterday and the vet suggested possible metabolic issues as i'd discussed them with him before, as Ginger's litter mates / siblings have had similar issues before.

Vet suggested using a hot water bottle, wrapped in a couple of fleeces to allow her to sit, so she sat on my OH for literally 20 minutes or so, and she brightened up after about 15 of those from what i can only assume was the affects of the warmth.

Sorry im not explaining very well am i :(

Sorry, im not explaining very well am i.
 
Okay, that does sound cold then. The genetic link is interesting.... i'm glad your vets are looking into it. All I can say from my experience is that lack of activity but more importantly, a bun not eating is a cold bun. I have always believed that buns are very much like horses digestively and their metabolism relies VERY much on food going in. I see this with Nino when he has his gut slowdown from his arthritic pain. When he is not eating - he gets cold very quickly. He's quite a small bunny so he has a small volume to large surface area which means he loses heat very quickly. Hopping around gets him hungry and eating warms him up. I'm 100% that it is the eating that kicks his metabolism and body heat - but the exercise triggers the appetite.

Have you though about using one of these Gray?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SAFE-Petnap...EVZW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291802680&sr=8-1
We have two and they are on permanently over night and BOTH bunnies love them. They work by pressure mostly so only get warm when bun sits on them but it's a lovely constant heat and doesn't go cold like a snugglesafe. The cable is armoured so as long as they don't chew things it should be fine. I hide them under a layer of fleece and poke the cable out the wire hole of the hutch/or a pen if on hols (make the bed up against the wire so the cable comes right out immediately) and the buns don't even know they are there.
 
Yes, I have had bunnies with this, it's not very nice for them because I think they find it difficult to deal with and it's not nice to witness.

I found it in baby bunnies that came from a neglected mother who was barely able to nurture her babies, that of course could just be coincidence, they were also taken away from their mum too early, but several of the babies had it, suffice to say thay had a horrible start to life

I used snugglesafes, towels and vet bed and then a 'cool' area, so in their run I put a couple of snugglesafes at differnt points, I put several small pieces of vetbed, I got a towl and suspended it in the air and just ley it drop so that it landed like a heap and just left it, I also had a bare cool area.

The areas don't have to be very big just bunny sized, the bunnies were able to choose where they wanted to go and learned to do that quite well, they all went on to grow up into lovely adult bunnies and were rehomed when we felt they had overcome their problems which was about 8-10 months

It might not be the same thing but sounds very similar and hope it helps
 
That would make sense. Ginger always feels colder when not moving, and she does eat in fits and starts during the day, but is a hay monster, so i'll often find her sat in the litter tray nomming.

If the metabolic issue is apparent after my vet comes back to me, it could be that Ginger's not taking in everything she should from her food i guess and so isn't getting what she needs to keep warm?

Biscuit does his best. They were like a pair of slippers once i put Ginger back in last night and i found them that way this morning also.

I'll be building the 2nd level of their crate this weekend as i've got the materials now so i'll line the top layer with fleeces on lino and will see if i can get one of those mats you linked to, hopefully that may help. My only concern is that Biscuit is a cable chewer. He can find cables from anywhere, even if i thought they were in a bunny proofed location. (my wii/xbox/laptop/blackberry cable are all proof of this)

Okay, that does sound cold then. The genetic
link is interesting.... i'm glad your vets are looking into it. All I can say from my experience is that lack of activity but more importantly, a bun not eating is a cold bun. I have always believed that buns are very much like horses digestively and their metabolism relies VERY much on food going in. I see this with Nino when he has his gut slowdown from his arthritic pain. When he is not eating - he gets cold very quickly. He's quite a small bunny so he has a small volume to large surface area which means he loses heat very quickly. Hopping around gets him hungry and eating warms him up. I'm 100% that it is the eating that kicks his metabolism and body heat - but the exercise triggers the appetite.

Have you though about using one of these Gray?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SAFE-Petnap...EVZW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291802680&sr=8-1
We have two and they are on permanently over night and BOTH bunnies love them. They work by pressure mostly so only get warm when bun sits on them but it's a lovely constant heat and doesn't go cold like a snugglesafe. The cable is armoured so as long as they don't chew things it should be fine. I hide them under a layer of fleece and poke the cable out the wire hole of the hutch/or a pen if on hols (make the bed up against the wire so the cable comes right out immediately) and the buns don't even know they are there.
 
Snowy, its like a duplicate of Ginger's situation;

Ginger and her litter mates / siblings mum died when they were young.

Ginger got milk from a surrogate mum (a conti giant with babies :roll:) but not immediately and her siblings from the previous litter were even worse off.

if Sky-O was around, she has Ginger's siblings, she would be able to tell you more, she knows all the details, i only know the very basics.

Yes, I have had bunnies with this, it's not very nice for them because I think they find it difficult to deal with and it's not nice to witness.

I found it in baby bunnies that came from a neglected mother who was barely able to nurture her babies, that of course could just be coincidence, they were also taken away from their mum too early, but several of the babies had it, suffice to say thay had a horrible start to life

I used snugglesafes, towels and vet bed and then a 'cool' area, so in their run I put a couple of snugglesafes at differnt points, I put several small pieces of vetbed, I got a towl and suspended it in the air and just ley it drop so that it landed like a heap and just left it, I also had a bare cool area.

The areas don't have to be very big just bunny sized, the bunnies were able to choose where they wanted to go and learned to do that quite well, they all went on to grow up into lovely adult bunnies and were rehomed when we felt they had overcome their problems which was about 8-10 months

It might not be the same thing but sounds very similar and hope it helps
 
Snowy, its like a duplicate of Ginger's situation;

Ginger and her litter mates / siblings mum died when they were young.

Ginger got milk from a surrogate mum (a conti giant with babies :roll:) but not immediately and her siblings from the previous litter were even worse off.

if Sky-O was around, she has Ginger's siblings, she would be able to tell you more, she knows all the details, i only know the very basics.

Ah right, that explains it, a baby bunny needs it's mummies milk up to at least 8 weeks in order to get all the nutrition it needs to be a healthy bunny itself, this is why hand rearing is such a nightmare

Hope you can find a solution, I have explained what I did and it worked, don;t know if you can try the same
 
Ah right, that explains it, a baby bunny needs it's mummies milk up to at least 8 weeks in order to get all the nutrition it needs to be a healthy bunny itself, this is why hand rearing is such a nightmare

Hope you can find a solution, I have explained what I did and it worked, don;t know if you can try the same

Yeah, i dont know the whole story, but i know there were issues.

My OH had suggested ordering a snugglesafe, just because she thought they needed one in the winter anyway, i'll get one of those and one of the pads PL linked to.

I'm willing to try/do anything for them at the moment.

The warm/cool areas sound like a great idea. I'll make sure to integrate that into their living area.
 
Ah right, that explains it, a baby bunny needs it's mummies milk up to at least 8 weeks in order to get all the nutrition it needs to be a healthy bunny itself, this is why hand rearing is such a nightmare

Hope you can find a solution, I have explained what I did and it worked, don;t know if you can try the same

Definitely this. Foundations for a healthy properly developed, immune-strong, bunny.
 
Definitely this. Foundations for a healthy properly developed, immune-strong, bunny.

Yeah, i totally agree.

I'm going to go for the ideas from Snowy there with their new setup.

I've also bought a treat ball, which i bought for the reasons of helping Ginger improve her movement/muscle tone as her back legs aren't the strongest of all (i made a thread the other day about basic physio and making her work for her food, that Sky-O helped me with) so i hope that will hopefully help with ehr moving around a lot more to work for her feed so could help on a couple of counts there.
 
not got anything to add but I wanted to send vibes to little Ginger! She's so lucky to have found loving hoomin parents and a brilliant husbun to help her out with her problems.

Get well soon Ginger!

:love:
 
Definitely this. Foundations for a healthy properly developed, immune-strong, bunny.

Absolutely, that's why it annoys me when breeders sell their baby bunnies from 5-6 weeks old, and Pets at Home have them in that young as well and they really aren't old enough to be away from their mums
 
Absolutely, that's why it annoys me when breeders sell their baby bunnies from 5-6 weeks old, and Pets at Home have them in that young as well and they really aren't old enough to be away from their mums

i didnt realise it was ever done intentionally :( I thought there was some kind of 'law' that said they cant leave or be sold until 8 weeks old or something along those lines?
 
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