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Biscuits Litter Tray Issues - July 29th

GrahamL

Wise Old Thumper
...are really getting me down :(

He's digging it all up still and then wees and poops in the plastic of the tray.

This in itself does not bother me but when he does it Ginger gets scared and won't get in so her litter training is going to pot.

Then in top of that they both get wee feet and I'm concerned about urine burns.

Then to top it all off it stinks! The wee obviously comes in contact with air quicker so the amonia kicks in.


Just losing the will here.

:(
 
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Have you given them more than one litter tray? Have you tried giving a digging box? What about stopping using newspaper?

The urine won't vcause scald. It causes scald when it works through the thick fur and sits on the skin. This normally happens with urine dribbling. With wee on the fur of the feet it will get walked off before it gets anywhere near the skin. I don't think urine scald is an issue at all if I'm honest.

I think its important to not over catastrophise this. Is more of an an annoyance than a major issue; he's just being a bunny.
 
Yeah they have two litter trays now, both the same and Biccy does the same in each of them. (one is in the 4x4, one is in the extension pen, so it gives Ginger somewhere to go if Biccys being a ****** heh)

I may try getting a corner one, a big corner one, like he had as a baby, see if that makes any difference perhaps?

I've tried removing newspaper, and just leaving hay - digs/removes from tray (he's learnt he can sit on the edge of the tray now and dig it all out :roll: heh)

I've tried carefresh layer then hay - digs/removes all from tray

I've tried newspaper > carefresh > newspaper > hay
I've tried newspaper > carefresh > hay

I think its just 'cos he's never done it before that makes me wonder why. I guess its just him being him as he's growing up.

He had a digging box, which was a small cardboard box with a fleece in it and Ginger just weed all over it, so i took the fleece out, as im trying to litter train her so its just the box and he will happily play/chew/dig in there when he wants, but the minute i replace a litter tray, or add fresh hay if its running low, he'll leave whatever he's doing, just to get into the litter tray and wreck it.

I know i'm being over dramatic, just wish there was something else i could do, he seems to get really angry/frustrated with it :?
 
Yep I too would put in two litter trays so Ginger has one she can use. We used two litter trays in the hutch for years because although they share, if Poppy does mess one up or hogs one, Nino can still use the other. We've only taken the 2nd one away in the last few weeks as an experiment.
 
What happens if you use litter, and no hay in the litter tray? Then have hay over the top in a rack or something so they can still eat and nom?

Or a covered cat litter tray, maybe even with a cat flap if he can really get the hay and out of an underbed storage box.

I would also maybe suggest three litter trays. Might be overkill but I often use more trays than bunnies in there.
 
What happens if you use litter, and no hay in the litter tray? Then have hay over the top in a rack or something so they can still eat and nom?

Or a covered cat litter tray, maybe even with a cat flap if he can really get the hay and out of an underbed storage box.

I would also maybe suggest three litter trays. Might be overkill but I often use more trays than bunnies in there.

If i just use litter (which i have done, but not put above, its too early!) he just digs that out too, so he can sit on the uncovered plastic of the box :roll: They have a little rack above the litter tray that i tend to put treat hay in, but i had tried just their normal hay in it with nothing in the box.

You'd mentioned the covered tray, thats possibly an idea, i was just trying to avoid it as its so bloody expensive!

It's quite amazing to see him balance on the edge of the tray with his back feet and dig the hay through between his back legs on to the floor lol.

I think if i put another tray in, i'd be really worried about the lack of space, as 3 litter trays would take up so much space? Or am i worrying myself with that too much?

I'll be moving them in to their new dog crate in about a week or so hopefully, so i need to think about space in there also. I'll have one litter tray in the crate and one outside for when they are 'out and about' but confined and when they are free-range theres always one next to the sofa so they are used to its location.

I like to over-complicate things dont i?
 
What time of day does this start?

whenever PL. If i replace the tray, he'll 100% guaranteed do it within 30 seconds.

If i add more hay during the day, he'll 100% guaranteed do it within 30 seconds.

Even if neither of the above are true, he'll often do it, be it us in the room, or just them two downstairs while im working upstairs.
 
whenever PL. If i replace the tray, he'll 100% guaranteed do it within 30 seconds.

If i add more hay during the day, he'll 100% guaranteed do it within 30 seconds.

Even if neither of the above are true, he'll often do it, be it us in the room, or just them two downstairs while im working upstairs.

Is it all ok overnight and starts up in the morning/during the day?
Poppy digs the tray over when she's bored and frustrated when she in fact NEEDS to be let out to run around because it's her wakiest time of day. Do they have free range of the house 24/7 or do you let them out at a certain time of the morning?

ETA if it's any consolation you are not alone. Poppy has dug up her upstairs tray all week, took tray away for a few nights to break habit, all was fine, but this morning she has peed under the hay basket upstairs in the hutch for 2nd night running - another morning's scrubbing! We too are dealing with a temperemental tray digging/peeing lop bunny! :wave:
 
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Is it all ok overnight and starts up in the morning/during the day?
Poppy digs the tray over when she's bored and frustrated when she in fact NEEDS to be let out to run around because it's her wakiest time of day. Do they have free range of the house 24/7 or do you let them out at a certain time of the morning?

i obviously cant be 100% sure about during the night, but i've often come down in the morning to find a lot of the contents that was in the tray at about midnight when i've gone to bed all over the floor of their pen in the morning but i know 11pm is one of their active times, so could be just after i've gone to bed.

They currently get free-range between 5:30pm and midnight every day and are in the image below after that.

I'm trying to and have been for ages bunny proof an area they can get out in to, but i'm finding it very difficult, as Biscuit's a jumper.

projectplaypen16.jpg


projectplaypen15.jpg


I know that space isn't ideal, but this isn't really a new thing, its how it's been for a fairly long time?
 
Are you still ignoring Biscuit when he does it in front of you?

Even though this is what I would usually advise so as not to give a reaction. We have in the past had some result from catching Poppy doing it and stopping her and saying no - and then getting her back in the tray and supervising her in it. I have also managed to stop her doing it by watching when I think she's going to do it and as she turns around to start saying 'no' before she starts and telling her to turn around again in her tray. Treats/herbs in the tray can often encourage bun to just sit in it and eat rather than dig as a reward. It all depends if it is being done for attention or for another reason really. Is Biscuit moulting heavily at the moment? Has he passed any poops strung with fur recently?
 
Are you still ignoring Biscuit when he does it in front of you?

Even though this is what I would usually advise so as not to give a reaction. We have in the past had some result from catching Poppy doing it and stopping her and saying no - and then getting her back in the tray and supervising her in it. I have also managed to stop her doing it by watching when I think she's going to do it and as she turns around to start saying 'no' before she starts and telling her to turn around again in her tray. Treats/herbs in the tray can often encourage bun to just sit in it and eat rather than dig as a reward. It all depends if it is being done for attention or for another reason really. Is Biscuit moulting heavily at the moment? Has he passed any poops strung with fur recently?

I ignore most of the time yeah. Occasionally, i'll try and break it by going over to him, just nudging him and saying "no" in a firm voice whilst he's digging, but he'll stop, jump out, wait til i've stopped talking and start again.

That makes me think its an attention thing. But he'll do it as soon as i've put a new tray in, even if its in the middle of me playing with them, which then makes me think its not an attention thing and its something annoying him? :?

Biccy's not moulting barely at all that i can tell at the moment, neither is Ginger.

He's passed quite a few poops lately, some of which have been laced with fur strining them together, not many admittedly, but certainly some.
 
i obviously cant be 100% sure about during the night, but i've often come down in the morning to find a lot of the contents that was in the tray at about midnight when i've gone to bed all over the floor of their pen in the morning but i know 11pm is one of their active times, so could be just after i've gone to bed.

They currently get free-range between 5:30pm and midnight every day and are in the image below after that.

I'm trying to and have been for ages bunny proof an area they can get out in to, but i'm finding it very difficult, as Biscuit's a jumper.

projectplaypen16.jpg


projectplaypen15.jpg


I know that space isn't ideal, but this isn't really a new thing, its how it's been for a fairly long time?

Space is fine Graham don't worry. I do think that perhaps he needs to get out and stretch his legs in the morning - early however if you can find a way to schedule that in. If Poppy can't get out the hutch early enough she gets VERY frustrated and digs the tray or wees on her blanket (or both! :roll:) what then happens is that the bad mood continues for days and the behaviour then takes over really.... If we are any later letting them out than 8am she really is not happy. If we let them out whilst she is still half-asleep owl eyed it's the best time to wake them up. First thing we do is let them out into the garden if possible, or if raining just upstairs for free range for whole day but it means she can burn off that energy. Buns are awake and full of beans from daybreak, and then often again around 9-10am. If there is someway you can routinely let them out early for free range from say 7-9am maybe? then this might let him burn off some much needed energy. It may not help the tray digging initially but it might help contribute to stopping the behaviour as I think he's getting a good deal of burn-off frustration from the behaviour. :?
 
I ignore most of the time yeah. Occasionally, i'll try and break it by going over to him, just nudging him and saying "no" in a firm voice whilst he's digging, but he'll stop, jump out, wait til i've stopped talking and start again.

That makes me think its an attention thing. But he'll do it as soon as i've put a new tray in, even if its in the middle of me playing with them, which then makes me think its not an attention thing and its something annoying him? :?

Biccy's not moulting barely at all that i can tell at the moment, neither is Ginger.

He's passed quite a few poops lately, some of which have been laced with fur strining them together, not many admittedly, but certainly some.

Okay, well with Poppy this causes her discomfort to pass them and can be one reason she will dig the tray first - then turn around and use it. It may be that only a wee comes out that time, but often later evidence of strung poops or a caec (indication of slowdown). I would see if you can try and get into the habit of brushing them both every few days if you can to reduce the fur load. It can make bun frustrated with their latrine if they have pain when trying to go but can't go.
 
I know i'm making a lot of suggestions here - but we have rarely found with any behavioural problem there to be one sole cause. Normally there is a combination of factors going on that work like a chain reaction to stimulate a certain behaviour.
 
Space is fine Graham don't worry. I do think that perhaps he needs to get out and stretch his legs in the morning - early however if you can find a way to schedule that in. If Poppy can't get out the hutch early enough she gets VERY frustrated and digs the tray or wees on her blanket (or both! :roll:) what then happens is that the bad mood continues for days and the behaviour then takes over really.... If we are any later letting them out than 8am she really is not happy. If we let them out whilst she is still half-asleep owl eyed it's the best time to wake them up. First thing we do is let them out into the garden if possible, or if raining just upstairs for free range for whole day but it means she can burn off that energy. Buns are awake and full of beans from daybreak, and then often again around 9-10am. If there is someway you can routinely let them out early for free range from say 7-9am maybe? then this might let him burn off some much needed energy. It may not help the tray digging initially but it might help contribute to stopping the behaviour as I think he's getting a good deal of burn-off frustration from the behaviour. :?

I'll see if i can fixup letting them out in the morning. Problem is our morning routine doesn't allow me much time, as im up at 6:30am to get showered etc and ready for work, leave house at 8am to take OH to work, then i start work at 8:30am. House isn't bunny proofed enough to allow them un-supervised free-range, as its not my house :?

I'll try though :)
 
I'll see if i can fixup letting them out in the morning. Problem is our morning routine doesn't allow me much time, as im up at 6:30am to get showered etc and ready for work, leave house at 8am to take OH to work, then i start work at 8:30am. House isn't bunny proofed enough to allow them un-supervised free-range, as its not my house :?

I'll try though :)

How about letting them out at 6.30 when you get up and putting them back at 8am before you leave?
 
Okay, well with Poppy this causes her discomfort to pass them and can be one reason she will dig the tray first - then turn around and use it. It may be that only a wee comes out that time, but often later evidence of strung poops or a caec (indication of slowdown). I would see if you can try and get into the habit of brushing them both every few days if you can to reduce the fur load. It can make bun frustrated with their latrine if they have pain when trying to go but can't go.

They both get Brushed every other day :)

Ginger maybe more so to be honest, as she enjoys being brushed. Biccy gets annoyed with the brush after about 5 minutes or so, so it tends to take an hour or so to get the same affect as you get with Ginger in 15 minutes :lol:

But i always get LOTS of fur from both, so although they aren't apparently moulting, quite a bit of fur removal is still evident in the brush, so you may be on to something?

I guess its possible that as you say, we could have a few contributing factors and i need to address as many as possible as an attempt to 'break the habit'.
 
They both get Brushed every other day :)

Ginger maybe more so to be honest, as she enjoys being brushed. Biccy gets annoyed with the brush after about 5 minutes or so, so it tends to take an hour or so to get the same affect as you get with Ginger in 15 minutes :lol:

But i always get LOTS of fur from both, so although they aren't apparently moulting, quite a bit of fur removal is still evident in the brush, so you may be on to something?

I guess its possible that as you say, we could have a few contributing factors and i need to address as many as possible as an attempt to 'break the habit'.

:thumb:

We brush ours daily, I just didn't want to suggest it... every other day is fine, will keep on top of it hopefully. Good luck and try not to let it get you down, I totally know how it feels I really do, we had this and peeing everywhere on everything for about a year with Poppy and were at our wits end several years ago, she only has the odd relapse and already I feel my frustration and temper about the whole thing returning... i'd forgotten how frustrating and upsetting it can be to deal with on daily basis. It does get better, being more laid back about the whole thing really helps you to deal with it... promise! It also reflects on bun.... if you get wound up.....they do tend to do it a lot more, try laughing (even if you don't feel like it) it does help. :)
 
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