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Numpty vet U/D pst 13 vet wont budge!

Boudicca

Warren Veteran
A friend called for advice her bun has developed head tilt and rolling eyes, quite lively in herself! Told her to get to vet sounds like EC and she would need Panacur AND metacam! Vet said no to the metacam just panacur and wouldn't prescribe it!!!!! Sent her home and told her to come back Monday for check-up! So we need some documented evidence please for our friend to show the vet to prove she needs metacam. The Rabbit welfare sheet just mentions steroids and panacur?!
 
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Steroids are usually contra-indicated for rabbits nowadays so do be very very wary of these unless administered by a very rabbit savvy vet.

Metacam is an absolute must usually for EC or other (multitude of rabbit related problems) problems associated either with pain or swelling,

Panacur is also very commonly used for EC

I would seriously suggest a different vet.

Did they check ears at all? or take a blood sample for EC?
 
Has the bun also got any antibiotics? I think it's fairly common for vets to cover all basis by giving antibiotics in case the cause is an inner ear infection, or indeed if such an infection is accompanying the EC.

I've certainly sat in lectures with some of the most bunny savvy vets in the country and they all say that panacur treats the parasite but not the inflammation - metacam (or steroids initially in some severe cases) is needed to treat the inflammation associated with the infection, as it is this that causes the symptoms.

Not sure if I have anything in particular written down to prove that though...
 
Steroids are usually contra-indicated for rabbits nowadays so do be very very wary of these unless administered by a very rabbit savvy vet.

Metacam is an absolute must usually for EC or other (multitude of rabbit related problems) problems associated either with pain or swelling,

Panacur is also very commonly used for EC

I would seriously suggest a different vet.

Did they check ears at all? or take a blood sample for EC?

no they were rubbish!! Can you still have eye rolling with an ear infection? We will definately suggest a different vet although I think she has a friend that works there so might be a bit awkward for her!
 
Well - I am NOT a vet - but from what I have heard and experienced, eye flickering and rolling is not usually an ear infection (Jsomeone will come on and correct me if I am wrong on that).

A blood test can tell if the rabbit has in the past been exposed to EC although without running two tests close together it will not tell if the rabbit has an active (raised) EC count which is raising or falling - and nowadays many vets just don't bother with the test and treat on the assumption that EC is the most likely.

However if the vet gives antibiotics as well it will cover all bases.

An ear infection can be SEEN by looking down ear! unless it is very very very deep. The vet surely checked that????


So . . . metacam, Panacur and abx are the most normal vet response to this situation - along with examination of eyes, ears etc and perhaps a blood test - later a urine test to see if EC has affected kidneys.
 
no they were rubbish!! Can you still have eye rolling with an ear infection? We will definately suggest a different vet although I think she has a friend that works there so might be a bit awkward for her!

The friend may know that the vets are rubbish with rabbits!!
 
Well - I am NOT a vet - but from what I have heard and experienced, eye flickering and rolling is not usually an ear infection (Jsomeone will come on and correct me if I am wrong on that).

A blood test can tell if the rabbit has in the past been exposed to EC although without running two tests close together it will not tell if the rabbit has an active (raised) EC count which is raising or falling - and nowadays many vets just don't bother with the test and treat on the assumption that EC is the most likely.

However if the vet gives antibiotics as well it will cover all bases.

An ear infection can be SEEN by looking down ear! unless it is very very very deep. The vet surely checked that????


So . . . metacam, Panacur and abx are the most normal vet response to this situation - along with examination of eyes, ears etc and perhaps a blood test - later a urine test to see if EC has affected kidneys.

Thank you for all the advice! Another RU member is going round tomorrow to see the little bunny (I might be able to go to!) and she's taking all this info with her! Hopefully it will be enough to convince the vet to change his mind if not I hope we can convince her to switch vets asap!
 
There's some useful info on ear infections here: http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/otitis_interna_media.PDF It's an american page though so some of the drug stuff is different (e.g. you can't get bicillin here).

If you look at the stuff on inner ear infections in particular you can see that it does present with some of the same symptoms as ec (and indeed it has been suggested that this presentation of ec may even be because the ec has caused an inner ear infection). Interestingly the article suggests that horizontal eye movement is indicative of infection and vertical movement indicative of ec. I've not heard that before elsewhere though!

Either way, it suggests antibiotics and anti-inflammatories such as metacam for these symptoms - which is partly why many vets give it as well as panacur to cover all bases. Even if infection is ruled out, metacam is definitely recommended for ec as well, for the reasons I said earlier.

Good luck, hopefully this bun can get some better treatment from this or another vet very soon xx
 
Thank you! V interesting about the eye movement! If I get to see her tomorrow I'll see if there is a definate movement in a particular direction! Thanks for the article it will be added to my growing collection of bunny info! Can't believe the wealth of info on this forum :D
 
The ongoing saga... Star went back to the vet on Monday and her owner insisted on metacam to go with the panacur but she was only given 3 days worth and told to come back in a week where they might have to make some 'decisions' :shock:

So Ive just phoned the vet and calmly (not sure how) discussed her treatment. She was adamant that they only prescribe panacur and the only reason they gave a token 3 days metacam was becuae it was asked for!! The vet said the parasite has already caused the neurological damage so giving an anti-inflammatory has no effect :shock: Ive said I know bunnies who have presented with clinical symptoms go on to make a full recovery. I even mentioned the current research that can be found online but she would not budge!

So I went on to ask about maybe prescribing an antibiotic in case it is a deep ear infection. She said theres no point in prescribing for something you cant see as the rabbit would build up its resistence to antibiotics and they would be useless next time you needed them!

There was no arguing with this woman! Poor little Star :cry: The bunnies owner thinks that myself and another forum member are a bit OTT with bunnies and is really reluctant to go against what the vet is telling her so is unlikely to change vets :(

I feel so bad :( Star and her husbun Toffee are the reason I have Dudley and Daisy and the reason I found RU. I looked after them when they were little. They were underweight and infested with mites, Star had some nasty bite wounds on her back. I helped nurse them back to health and then they went to their forever home (I cried my heart out and got D&D :D). This is a picture of them when they were with me, Star is the white and black bunny she has grown into her ears a bit more now she is 2!

StarToffee.jpg


ETA: for the Essex contingency this was Spring Lodge :shock: thought they were supposed to be good!!!
 
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So I went on to ask about maybe prescribing an antibiotic in case it is a deep ear infection. She said theres no point in prescribing for something you cant see as the rabbit would build up its resistence to antibiotics and they would be useless next time you needed them!

That's really made me angry (at the vet not you). What twisted logic... to not prescribe antibioics because it would build up the rabbit's resistance when it's obvious they intend to put her to sleep anyway!

My Dominic recently had head tilt caused by ear infection, and after a few months of antibiotics, metacam and stemetil is almost back to normal.

Head tilt does need to be treated aggressively, and unless the vet is willing to help then unfortunately it might be best to just PTS now :(
 
i think pictures of rU bunnies who have recovered from EC and treatments recieved are in order, flood them to the owner and to the vet, clearly the vet cannot be bothered to do her research another vet not keen on rabbits
 
Well - I am NOT a vet - but from what I have heard and experienced, eye flickering and rolling is not usually an ear infection (Jsomeone will come on and correct me if I am wrong on that).

You would expect to see eye flickering and rolling with an ear infection. It's because one of the functions of the ear is balance...and if this organ isn't working properly the rabbit will be dizzy and feel like it's spinning...hence the rolling and flickering eyes.
 
You would expect to see eye flickering and rolling with an ear infection. It's because one of the functions of the ear is balance...and if this organ isn't working properly the rabbit will be dizzy and feel like it's spinning...hence the rolling and flickering eyes.

Thank you for correcting me - I was basing it on my experience but perhaps my ear infection buns just did not present with that at all - they had different symptoms with their ear infections (one very severe infection) whereas my EC buns have both presented with rapidly flickering eyes.

Perhaps Jacks Jane has noted eye flickering with Morse? Would be worth asking.
 
Are you the people in/near Colchester?

I can recommend a great vet for treating headtilt in Ipswich. He treated two of mine (both who had nystagmus) and they improved dramatically. One was left with a residual tilt but she had had many months without treatment prior to coming to me (she was seized by the RSPCA as a cruelty case).

If you want me to recommend a vet then please just PM me :)
 
Thank you for correcting me - I was basing it on my experience but perhaps my ear infection buns just did not present with that at all - they had different symptoms with their ear infections (one very severe infection) whereas my EC buns have both presented with rapidly flickering eyes.

Perhaps Jacks Jane has noted eye flickering with Morse? Would be worth asking.

You're right that it's not necessarily a symptom of ear infection...only if the balance organ is affected, which (thankfully) isn't particularly common
 
This was Spring Lodge?
What on Earth!?!
Please can you confirm what branch, and vet so I will not use this person in future :evil:
Where's our Damien when you need him? :(
 
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