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Thank-You Judy and Thumper (AKA thumps_)

Jack's-Jane

Wise Old Thumper
The Sloe Leaves arrived and Little Bill has actually eaten 10 of them :)
He has not eaten anything for himself for 6 days, except a tiny bit of hay on Saturday afternoon.

He actually looked quite enthusiastic about eating the Sloe Leaves :)

Me and LB cant thank you enough for all your amazing advice about a Holistic approach to Rabbit GI Tract problems

:love: :love: :love:
 
I'm so pleased that Little Bill has shown some interest, & hope that it increases over the day.

It's very dear of you to start a thread, but in all honesty, I owe so much more to other people. They should really take the credit.
Above all credit should go to those who grouped together to start RU.

Pretty Lupin has sent me countless hay samples, & herbs to help when things were tight for us. There's Halfpenny who's incredibly busy & with so many sick animals in her rescue as well as work, as well as Louise & Guss, who have sent us plantain, when my area was devastated by mildew before I could harvest enough. It's fiddly to gather. I owe Thumper's life to these folk. I could never begin to repay them.

All I can do is to pass on the thoughtfullness & great kindness that they have shown to us, to others whose backs are similarly against the wall.

At the end of the day it's about our beloved bunnies, and it's about sharing what we have, freely to help the buns & their owners. The reward is a bunny saved, a bunny who gets ill less often & less severely.

We all know the anguish of a sick bun. It's about empathy & compassion extended to others who love their buns, & relieving the isolation, of being surrounded by others who cannot possibly begin to understand how we feel.

You have brought a treasure chest of knowledge & experience about sick buns to this forum freely, & helped to save more bunny lives than we could begin to count.

There are those who work tirelessly to improve the lives of thousands of buns in better accommodation standards, despite hitting a brick wall. They deserve so much praise, encouragement & support.

All that I can bring is a vague memmory of times years ago when the only vet care available for buns was pts. & the wild plants which were traditionally used to maintain bunny health & treat certain conditions. This knowledge has been almost lost now.
Before I joined the forum, I simply asked whether by combining the best of the old, & what wild buns do to stay healthy, with modern medicines, we could get a further improvement.

I also bring a bunny to the forum, who has a remarkable inner knowledge of what he needs to keep his gut working. HE taught me what to use. I only looked up why it should work; & watched him for 5 years, until I was convinced that I was seeing true benefits & not simple fluctuations in his condition.

I also bring a knowledge of what we did for humans before there were the potent modern drugs, to try to overcome some of the specific problems posed by differences in buns. This knowledge has also been almost lost. I can only begin to work out what to do, when I understand the particular problems which make some illnesses in buns difficult to treat.

Just like every other member of the forum, I am only contributing knowledge & experience. It looks like a new way, but it's only combining old ways & what wild buns do, with new advances in vet treatment, to achieve what neither can do alone.

Those who live in cities can neither buy, nor access some plants. As you have sat up all night over the computer with those who have sick buns Jane, I have done my tiny part of sending those plants I can find locally to try to tip the balance favourably, for those buns whose stasis isn't responding.

I apologise for my lack of input recently. It is a mammoth task to collect & dry enough wild plants to feed a bun without a functioning caecum totally for 4-5 months when they are unobtainable in winter. I have found that Blackthorn /Sloe leaves are only effective for stasis when gathered during a 6 week period in Autumn. It takes 2,000 twigs to get the minimum needed for Thumper with his megacolon issues. Domperidone only just got us through until Autumn. Sloe leaves + domperidone appear to be getting him much healthier.

So I would advise any of you with buns who can, to get in a few twigs worth now, & dry them to help any of your buns who may have prolonged stasis issues, not responding to standard treatment, in the next 12 months.
Perhaps some of us will remember those who cannot get them, & collect a small surplus for those whose back is against the wall.

Please forgive a very long post.
 
I'm so pleased that Little Bill has shown some interest, & hope that it increases over the day.

It's very dear of you to start a thread, but in all honesty, I owe so much more to other people. They should really take the credit.
Above all credit should go to those who grouped together to start RU.

Pretty Lupin has sent me countless hay samples, & herbs to help when things were tight for us. There's Halfpenny who's incredibly busy & with so many sick animals in her rescue as well as work, as well as Louise & Guss, who have sent us plantain, when my area was devastated by mildew before I could harvest enough. It's fiddly to gather. I owe Thumper's life to these folk. I could never begin to repay them.

All I can do is to pass on the thoughtfullness & great kindness that they have shown to us, to others whose backs are similarly against the wall.

At the end of the day it's about our beloved bunnies, and it's about sharing what we have, freely to help the buns & their owners. The reward is a bunny saved, a bunny who gets ill less often & less severely.

We all know the anguish of a sick bun. It's about empathy & compassion extended to others who love their buns, & relieving the isolation, of being surrounded by others who cannot possibly begin to understand how we feel.

You have brought a treasure chest of knowledge & experience about sick buns to this forum freely, & helped to save more bunny lives than we could begin to count.

There are those who work tirelessly to improve the lives of thousands of buns in better accommodation standards, despite hitting a brick wall. They deserve so much praise, encouragement & support.

All that I can bring is a vague memmory of times years ago when the only vet care available for buns was pts. & the wild plants which were traditionally used to maintain bunny health & treat certain conditions. This knowledge has been almost lost now.
Before I joined the forum, I simply asked whether by combining the best of the old, & what wild buns do to stay healthy, with modern medicines, we could get a further improvement.

I also bring a bunny to the forum, who has a remarkable inner knowledge of what he needs to keep his gut working. HE taught me what to use. I only looked up why it should work; & watched him for 5 years, until I was convinced that I was seeing true benefits & not simple fluctuations in his condition.

I also bring a knowledge of what we did for humans before there were the potent modern drugs, to try to overcome some of the specific problems posed by differences in buns. This knowledge has also been almost lost. I can only begin to work out what to do, when I understand the particular problems which make some illnesses in buns difficult to treat.

Just like every other member of the forum, I am only contributing knowledge & experience. It looks like a new way, but it's only combining old ways & what wild buns do, with new advances in vet treatment, to achieve what neither can do alone.

Those who live in cities can neither buy, nor access some plants. As you have sat up all night over the computer with those who have sick buns Jane, I have done my tiny part of sending those plants I can find locally to try to tip the balance favourably, for those buns whose stasis isn't responding.

I apologise for my lack of input recently. It is a mammoth task to collect & dry enough wild plants to feed a bun without a functioning caecum totally for 4-5 months when they are unobtainable in winter. I have found that Blackthorn /Sloe leaves are only effective for stasis when gathered during a 6 week period in Autumn. It takes 2,000 twigs to get the minimum needed for Thumper with his megacolon issues. Domperidone only just got us through until Autumn. Sloe leaves + domperidone appear to be getting him much healthier.

So I would advise any of you with buns who can, to get in a few twigs worth now, & dry them to help any of your buns who may have prolonged stasis issues, not responding to standard treatment, in the next 12 months.
Perhaps some of us will remember those who cannot get them, & collect a small surplus for those whose back is against the wall.

Please forgive a very long post.

I am foraging this weekend as it's "poor week" and would never have thought to untill the famous foraging thread :love:
 
I am foraging this weekend as it's "poor week" and would never have thought to untill the famous foraging thread :love:

I really loved participating in that thread. I learned just much as I was able to contribute. TBH I don't want it to end, but it's getting long to read!
 
Little Bill has eaten some more Sloe leaves, some hay AND some Spring Greens :)
This is the most he has eaten for 6 days !!
 
I really loved participating in that thread. I learned just much as I was able to contribute. TBH I don't want it to end, but it's getting long to read!

:lol::lol::lol:Me tooo! I think we have to just read the end bits....or maybe put alist together of info we have learnt as a quick reference guide!:lol::love::love:

Im so happy & abit embarrassed as when I started that thread I felt so proud of my efforts of "drying herbs" ...who would have thought it would have got so long!....:lol:and yet still have not actaully got any plantain as I got abit confused & then thought it was too late in the season to pick it!
 
Little Bill has eaten some more Sloe leaves, some hay AND some Spring Greens :)
This is the most he has eaten for 6 days !!

Woooooooop WOoooooooooop! :)

Jane, thats excellent excellent news. Hoping for more nomming and that things start getting better now...

thumps_; Total respect. You obviously have an awesome head on those shoulders of yours.
 
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...a_sloe_aka_prunus_spinosa_sweden_20050924.jpg

Just checking this is sloe/blackthorn!? and it cant be easily confused wiht any other plant?

I may be able to go forage this weekend then....:D

Wow - Thumps that is ever so kind of you! sending sloe leaves.....and the bunny is eating after 6 days! Just amazing...they just need more choice from us dont they...


:love::love::love:

:wave:Yes, that's right. Some bushes don't have berries. There's the leaf shape & incredibly long thorns as you go into the bush on last years growth.
The leaves I use are this years' growth which hasn't got thorns. :D
Very important. ALWAYS use cutters for the twigs to keep your hands away from the thorns.
If the thorns stab, rather than scratch you the tip nearly always breaks off inside & can cause intense inflammation which is difficult to treat without a minor op to get the tip out.


ETA You can also collect the berries & make a Christmas treat of Sloe gin/vodka or brandy for humans of course!

On a bunny theme, 2 totally inappetant buns for 5 days & over have regained appetite just as fast with Sloe leaves. I only found out for certain that it is bunny safe from a holistic vet recently.
I would class them as medicine only - not treats.
 
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Fantastic news Jane, I'm absolutely thrilled for you both.
Please keep the news coming, & everything crossed that Little Bill will be the 3rd. bun to pull through.
 
forgive me but im not too good on plants...:oops: are the leaves ok to give before or after the 6 week period? or are they only potent enough then? when is the 6 week slot? and are the berries ok to give to buns? i m sorry about all the questions but would like to get some for my 2 buns incase of any potential prolonged gi.
thanks
 
It's only the leaves which are OK for buns. The berries have a large stone in them - & the shrub is from the same family as plum trees, but is very different in several ways.

There's no problem giving the leaves at any time of year, BUT until I know more I advise that theyare only given in short courses specifically for stasis which isn't responding or mild dysbiosis which has not responded to the usual methods.

The leaves only have this dramatic effect on stasis if used after the berries have ripened & particularly after the whitish thin "bloom" is on the berries. These medicinal properties last until the leaves fall, which is a period of about 6 weeks. Given the fresh leaves a bun usually leaves the woody stem connecting the leaf to the twig. They become very hard & spikey when dried, & more difficult for the bun to recognise so I remove them for him with dried leaves.

The leaves are very bitter, & astringent. Astringency is associated with binding protein so it cannot be utilised either by caecal bacteria or the body.
There is a possibility they might also bind iron.
For these reasons, I advise that they are only used medicinally & in short courses until more is known.

They increase gut motility in their own right.
They are "antiseptic" and bunny safe when used medicinally.

For 4 consecutive years there has been a dramatic improvement in Thumper's dysbiosis, as assessed by smell, "caecs" become formed not a uniform toothpaste consistancy, they regain the normal black colour rather than the abnormal for him, brown or even dark olive green, & he eats them!
I suspect that they help to restore the balance of caecal micro organisms.

Some of these wrong bacteria can produce toxins which prevent the local nerves from working thus slowing down the gut even more.[Others ferment the food in the gut producing gas & bloat]
If the nerves aren't working, gut motility drugs can't work.

I do not know whether the Blackthorn leaves actually bind the locally produced toxins, or reduce the numbers of toxin producing bacteria to non harmful levels.

Because of Thumper's megacolon type issues, & a caecum seen to be non motile & collapsed in on itself, it's a tough battle with dysbiosis. We do all the usual things of low nutrient high fiber diet, as well as domperidone + Blackthorn leaves. He has made a spectacular improvement this year since the leaves became active.

He is currently having a "mass caecal emptying". For the 1st. time this year he has continued to eat, & had no episodes of no bowel sounds (ileus) lasting up to 24 hours. Tonight he ate a little grass for the 1st. time since April, which indicates to me that he may have regained some caecal function. This can only be because of reduced toxin effects on his bowel as far as I understand it.
The next 12 months will be the 1st. year when back against the wall; I have to give him blackthorn leaves throughout with short breaks. Domperidone alone isn't containing this.

Together Thumper & I are trying to find out how much megacolon issues are caused by loss of nerve supply (irreversible) & whether the progression of the fatal disease is at least partly caused by toxin producing bacteria. Pity I can't do it properly with bacterial cultures! Even greater pity that I can't get concrete evidence by ultrasound of what I suspect is going on.

Our issues are directly related to the commoner forms of stasis. Whenever a bunny bowel slows down there is a tendancy for bacterial overgrowth in the caecum.
 
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