Vet has diagnosed EC but I think differently/bun not eating dry food. Help!

Hi everyone, I'm new here

Apologies that this is quite a long post, but I'm worried about my rabbit Gethin and thought it best to describe all of his symptoms carefully as I really can't figure out what's wrong with him.

Gethin is just over a year old, he's a black dwarf, very lean and dainty.

I noticed on Sunday night that he was very quiet - normally in the evenings he's running around like crazy, but that night he was flopped out under the bed and every time I tried to nudge him to make him move, he would take two or three paces and then flop out again. A couple of times when he tried to move he lost his balance and rolled over, and couldn't get back up again. I went to inspect his cage and noticed that he hadn't eaten many of his nuggets (he has Burgess Excel nuggets for adult rabbits) since Saturday evening - almost none at all. It also appeared that he hadn't been drinking, weeing, or pooing that day. I eventually got him to respond to my nudges and he walked down the corridor, but as soon as he tried to break into a run he fell over sideways. He did this twice. Then, when sitting in his litter tray, he was swaying from side to side a little, like he couldn't quite keep his balance even when sitting.

I took him to the vet first thing on Monday morning, and he said it was most likely E Cuniculi - he put Gethin on three types of medication (Meloxidyl (7 day course), Baytril (7 day course) and Lapizole (28 day course)). I took him home but he still wasn't eating by 6pm that evening, so I informed the vet and he said he wanted to take Gethin in overnight.

He was then kept in at the vets' for two nights - he stayed over Monday and Tuesday - during which time the nurse syringe-fed him 5 times a day and administered his medicine. He began drinking normally and weeing, and pooing a little bit (but only tiny, slightly wet poops, from the syringe food I guess). He wasn't eating anything of his own accord until Wednesday morning, when he had a small amount of veg (but no dry food).

Because he'd begun eating, the vet was happy for me to bring him home on Wednesday evening. When I got him home he seemed lively enough, running about the house, finding all his familiar places and scenting things He ate some parsley and coriander, and a little bit of apple, and drank a lot of water. His poos returned to normal.

The reason I'm continuing to be worried is that yesterday (Thursday) and today (Friday) he's barely touched his dry food - he's eaten literally only about six or seven nuggets today (though he's had pretty much a whole bunch of coriander, some apple and a tiny bit of banana as a treat for taking his medicine).

Yesterday he ate quite a few nuggets so I gave him no syringe food; but today, because he ate fewer nuggets, I've given him two small feeds of the syringe food.

Also, last night something weird happened where one of his ears suddenly went flat against his back while the other one was up straight - and then he kept stumbling/staggering over in the direction of the flattened ear, and seemed really bothered by it, angrily shaking his head from side to side, losing his balance a bit, and scratching at it really hard with his hind leg. It wouldn't go back to normal, it just stayed flattened down on his back. By this morning, however, his ear seemed fine again, and he's shown no signs of imbalance today.

I guess my main question is: should I be worried that he's not eating his dry food? Is it OK for him to just be eating veg, so long as he's eating quite a bit of it? Can the medicine prescribed put rabbits off their food - might that be why he's not eating?

And if he's only eating veg, should I continue syringe feeding him to make up for the lack of nuggets?

Lastly, is there anything that can cause wobbliness/imbalance and lack of appetite in rabbits that isn't E Cuniculi?

I'd be so grateful for any advice! I have a feeling this is something different from E Cuniculi but I have no idea what - and the vet himself admitted that it might not be, just that it was most likely to be due to the symptoms and the number of rabbits that suffer from it. Does anyone have any experience of bunnies with symptoms similar to those described above?

Thankyou in advance
- Lauren x

Is he eating Hay ?

To me it sounds as though he *might* actually have a middle ear infection. EC is of course a possibility, but the fact that he wont eat hard food and he is 'bothered' by his ear makes me think ear pain is present. Eating hard food when he has earache is something he'd probably want to avoid.

A middle ear infection is not always evident from looking into the ear canal with an otoscope. Skull radiographs would be required to obtain a diagnosis.

Gethin is on treatment to cover both bacterial infection and EC, but in my experience Baytril is seldom that effective in the treatment of a middle ear infection. Often another type of antibiotic is needed, possibly a combination of antibiotics.

What dose of Meloxidyl is he on ? If his pain could be better controlled his appetite may improve.

In the meantime you could try making his pellet feed soft by soaking in in boiled water.

Finally, did the Vet check his teeth ? If Gethin has never been a good hay eater (hay should make up 80-90% of a Rabbit's diet) then he may actually have Dental problems aswell as the vestibular symptoms.

Hi Jane, thanks so much for your reply and your help, sorry it's taken me so long to respond!

He's never been a big hay eater - in fact, he eats next to no hay at all these days, although I do keep his cage topped up with timothy hay (he used to have meadow hay). He might pull at two or three strands occasionally and munch them, but no more than that. His diet is those Burgess Excel nuggets, and a lot of greens (mainly coriander and parsley), and the occasional treat (banana, apple, carrot).

When we rehomed Gethin at about five months old he'd not been looked after very well by his previous owners - his diet had been that cheap, muesli-style stuff where they just pick out the bits they like and don't eat the rest, and a LOT of carrot. When we rehomed him we started him straight away on a good diet, but I wonder if maybe his teeth suffered when he was little...?

He's just finished both of the 7-day courses of Meloxidyl and Baytril - the Meloxidyl dose was 3.5 units per day using that special Meloxidyl syringe, while his Baytril dose was 0.72ml per day. The Lapizole is set to continue for another 21 days, and that's 1.8ml per day.

The vet didn't check his teeth, although he did check his ears and eyes, saying there was no sign of ear infection - but then as you say (which I didn't realise), it's not always obvious just by looking at the ears.

The good news is that since his strange bout of imbalance and ear-bother on the 17th, he doesn't seem to have had any more balance or co-ordination problems; however, his appetite is still down and he ate even less overnight last night than he has in the past few days (just a few nuggets and a tiny bit of parsley). We've given him a feed of the Oxbow critical care formula this morning and I'm going to go get him some more coriander/soft leaves in a moment to see if he'll eat those, but even if he has a few it's not enough of course - he does seem to have lost a bit of weight over the last few days, he definitely feels a little bonier (and he's quite a lean little rabbit anyway).

Another thing I've noticed is that when he **does** eat, he's noisier than usual! His teeth sound a bit more grinding/abrasive. I wonder if that means anything...?

We just gave his teeth a little check ourselves and the front teeth look fine, no overlaps or chips or anything, but we can't see the molars.

I think I'm going to monitor his progress today and keep offering him food, making sure he eats at least a bit, and book an appointment at the vets for the morning, suggesting that they inspect his teeth/ears more closely. Thanks for your hints, Jane - an ear infection or something wrong with his teeth, or both, sounds more likely to me than E Cuniculi, based on his behaviour...

Hi,
i agree with Jane, if hes off his food abit it would suggest pain and coupled with the ear bothering and imbalance issues an ear infection sounds quite likely.
My Mimi had an ear infection and it couldnt be seen just from examination.
Stronger abx are probably worth a go.
Lots of healing vibes for him xxxx

Thanks Gemma,

I've booked another appointment for him with the vet early tomorrow morning so that they can take a better look at his teeth and ears. Fingers crossed! x

Got my fingers crossed for yoh both :wave:
Remember that even if an infection is present it might not be visible but its probs worth getting him on strong abx anyway IMO.
good luck xxxxx

Thank you for the informative initial post.

I'm also supporting Jane with middle ear infection & the advice already given.

I feel that his back teeth need to be checked by a vet for molar spurs, which are razor sharp & hurt the mouth with food that needs a lot of chewing.

There are 2 aspects to the dry feed. As Jane says, chewing hard food is painful with an ear infection. The other aspect is the gut slow down. He may be avoiding dry food because the slow gut makes him feel full. He hasn't enough "room" to get enough food in & water. Moistening his pellets so they are soft but can be picked up, may help both potential issues.

It may help to cut his hay into small lengths - less chewing.

The important advice of getting him to a specialist bunny vet will solve the problem, mine is just stop gap to try to keep him going.

while I also think that an ear problem may also be the likeliest alternative to EC can I just also add the possibility of a problem behind the eye such as an abscess or tumour. It seems unlikely but the symptoms you have described are not completely unheard of with these sort of eye problems.

:wave:Hi and welcome. So sorry to hear about Gethin, I have a rabbit whose had E.Cuniculi and some of the symptoms you describe 'Basil' had as well. I am no expert and cannot comment or give any advice about ear problems, but I think you have already had good advice from other posters who are more knowlegable than me on this subject. If it does turn out to be EC don't panic, because although it's a really horrible thing, many rabbits can recover from this. I know it may be difficult for Gethin to eat hay at the moment because he is poorly, but maybe when he is feeling better you may be able to find a way to encourage him to eat more. Hay is so important, as I have been advised. Basil didn't eat so much when we first had him but he is eating more and more now. Good luck with Gethin, thinking of you.

Aw thanks everyone, what a lovely and supportive forum this is!

A lil' vet update from this morning's visit: the vet gave Gethin a good inspection of his molars and said they looked fine and that there were no spurs (phew!), and she didn't seem to think he had an ear infection; she thought that the most likely reason why he's still not eating properly is just that he's still shaken up from last week's ordeals and that his body hasn't quite got back into its normal routine (I guess because he had two or three days of not really eating anything of his own accord, perhaps it takes a while to get his appetite back up to what it was before...?). She thinks his system may have just slowed down a bit, meaning that he's not wanting to eat as much as normal.

She gave him a little injection of something - I can't remember what it was called - to stimulate his gut so that it might encourage him to take in more food, and prescribed another week's worth of Baytril. She said to just carry on making sure he has access to plenty of leafy veg - which he's eating rather a lot of this morning! - and feeding him the Oxbow mix or a mush of his regular nuggets via a syringe a few times a day.

Other than the lack of appetite he does seem fine - he's alert and fairly active - and he's not bloated; thankfully he hasn't lost too much weight either even though I did think he looked a bit skinner (he weighed 1.72kg last Monday, and today he weighed 1.70kg). I guess I'll just have to keep monitoring his food intake, and keep giving him syringe feeds until his appetite - hopefully - returns to normal...

Thanks for your advice everyone, I feel much better now that his teeth have been properly checked out and I've had a second opinion from a second vet. x

I have found that Oxbow Critical Care often seems to stimulate appetite as well as having fibre to increase GI motility.

I'm so pleased that Gethin's teeth are OK.
I also feel that the gut motility agent will help his appetite, together with the critical care. Should his appetite go downhill again, some buns need a course of motility drugs for 5 days.

I've only a small tip. Humans with similar balance issues from the inner ear or from the brain, find that head/total body movement makes the dizziness very much worse. They also feel nauseated. It may help Gethin if you stroke him etc on the floor.

When his tummy has recovered, it may be worth considering Stemetil to ease the symptoms of dizziness for him. Much will depend on how many meds he's taking, how severe the balance issues are, & how well he takes to meds - stress factors.

Everything crossed for Gethin.

How is Gethin doing?