Don't feed fresh hay???

I feel so so sad today ! I feel like I keep failing my little Charlie and it hurts me so much to see him poorly ! I do everything within my knowledge to keep him happy and healthy but today I learned something new a little too late.

When I woke up this morning Charlie had loads of soft poos covered in a brown mucus. My vet has told me before that if this happens it's bad, and I knew that Charlie need to go to the vets ASAP. I was lucky enough to get an appointment this afternoon. I've just come back and all these tummy issues that Charlie has had could be all my fault . Apparently you should not feed rabbits fresh hay. I had no idea! I bought a bale at the beggining of the month and it was green and lovely smelling. But apparently it is better to get last years hay for rabbits? The only animals that can have fresh hay is cattle. Has anyone else heard of this?

Well currently my bill for Charlie is at £174. I've been given Intradine, ranitidine, Metoclopramide and Bio-lapis to give to Charlie over the next week as he has a very large and full stomach. It isn't a hard mass which is good, he just isn't passing his food properly. Has anyone experienced this before? Does anyone know why rabbits can't eat fresh hay? Does anyone have any advice for me ? I just feel so terrible. I fed him things that make him poorly and I feel like a terrible bunny mummy I'm suppoesd to protect him from these things . He's completely fine in himself. Running jumping playing. But I'm dreading him becoming slow and depressed like he was when he first had tummy troubles and it will be all my fault

I've never heard this before. I know you should feed hay that is damp or partially fermented (ie haylage), but as long as it is all dried out I thought it was fine?

Stator said:

I've never heard this before. I know you should feed hay that is damp or partially fermented (ie haylage), but as long as it is all dried out I thought it was fine?

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Ditto. :?

My two have been scoffing this year's hay for about two months now and they've been absolutely fine - and my piggies' have been eating it too with not so much as a slightly squidgy poo from any of them.

Please don't blame yourself as am sure you're not to blame x

Fresh hay is fine for buns. However, like introduction to fresh grass, it should be made slowly. I would be surprised if the hay you have been feeding is solely responsible for your rabbit's tummy issues especially if you have been feeding this hay for sometime.

Episodes of stasis/or gut upset are rarely solely caused by diet alone, unless the food fed is highly sugary/starchy for example Spring bolted new growth grass - which can and does cause bloat and caecal upset if not introduced slowly enough. There are MANY causes of gut upset and stasis - often it is impossible to pinpoint the culprit and very often a combination of factors are responsible.

My buns are currently finishing off boxes of baled hay from last year, however, my farmer also sent me a free sample of this year's very green hay. My buns devoured the entire sample in one day and there was no gut upset whatsoever.

Agree with the above. Please don't blame yourself. Mine all have this year's lovely green fresh hay and no signs of tummy trouble at all.
Sending vibes for your little man and hoping he feels better soon.
I don't know how anyone else feels about this, but maybe some fibreplex would help to get some fibre in him and the mass out.

What's his diet currently and does he have a history of teeth problems or anything?

As far as I'm aware fresh hay is fine for rabbits and piggies but not for horses and cattle. It needs to be stored for a couple of months before it can be fed to them.Which is why hay making is done at the time of year that it is.

I think your vet may be slightly mixed up as places like the Hay experts wouldn't be selling some of their hay's other wise.

Do hope your rabbit is better soon.

Hmmmm. I was thinking it was very strange to be told this. For one thing April is completely fine. And also, bunnys can eat fresh grass, so why not fresh hay? I know that Charlie had a terrible diet for the first 10 months of his life and was probably taken away from his mummy too early so may have a sensitive stomach? But he so loved the bale we bought him and I would hate to take it away for older hay that wont smell as tasty? And another thing... I'm sure his first bout of stasis was before we bought the bale...

Eeek... I don't know what to do Currently I have bagged up some hay in potato sacks to store for four months (this is the age the hay should be as advised by my vet) so do you think it will be okay kept in there? And in everyones opinion.... should I stop giving them both fresh hay? Do you think it's a bit silly the advice I was given? Surely fresh hay is better for them. I've always trusted my vet 100%, he's owned bunnies from about 2 years old and his mum said he was very good with them (she's a regular in my mum's pub so I interogated her haha ) but this time I'm doubting...

We had a huge problem getting Charlie to eat hay when we first got him and this bale cost £3 and he absolutely loves it he's started putting his nose up at the excell burgess hay we've given him instead

I feed fresh hay with no problems. Hope your bunny gets better soon x

HS said:

Agree with the above. Please don't blame yourself. Mine all have this year's lovely green fresh hay and no signs of tummy trouble at all.
Sending vibes for your little man and hoping he feels better soon.
I don't know how anyone else feels about this, but maybe some fibreplex would help to get some fibre in him and the mass out.

What's his diet currently and does he have a history of teeth problems or anything?

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Well he's a very skinny little thing which was because of the stasis he had so we've been increasing his pellets to 2 egg cup full in the morning and 2 in the evening. But eventually when his weight is up I will cut it down to one in the morning and 1 in the evening. The pellets he has in Oxbow T. He also gets a cup full of veggies (spring green, watercress, parsley and mint). And three types of hay (excel burgess with dandelion and oat hay from the hay experts and the bale)

Do you think it's bad to go against the advice of my vet and carry on with the bale? We were going to get another one tomorrow until charlie was poorly?

Also, thank you for the vibes, Charlie is very grateful!:wave:

EDIT: I've just thought, his weight loss may not be because of stasis. I think he's being treated for a parasite as well at the moment which may be why he's boney (he's a mini lop and his weight was 1.55kg but his spine is very prominent when you stroke him)

rabbits need fresh hay that is what is most of their diet, also they can have grass I feed the rescues that as what do they get in the wild?? certainly not pellets.

elaine said:

rabbits need fresh hay that is what is most of their diet, also they can have grass I feed the rescues that as what do they get in the wild?? certainly not pellets.

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Yes exactly what I was thinking! In the wild they probably eat the grasses before there even cut and dried and you can't get fresher than that! and rabbits are grazers... so are always eating fresh grass?

Also I forgot to mention, Charlie sufferend from Malocclusion and had to have his front teeth removed (probably due to the lack of hay in his diet before he came to us according to our vet) but his back teeth are regularly checked and they are fine. Could this possibly be part of the issue?

I wouldn't think it is so much the 'freshness' of the hay but the quality of the hay. We have had a lot of bales donated and they are no good for bunnies as they are musty inside ie baled when too wet or stored in the damp. I always smell hay before giving it to the bunnies or ponies. Good hay should just smell like dry grass (not really sure how to describe it better). Bad hay smells fungussy or mushroomy and can be very dusty. Good hay is also quite stalky and hard and not soft (it has more fibre).

True that rubbishy hay can be fed to cattle as they have a more robust digestive system (unless you have a very fussy bull like ours who gets treated far too well and turns his nose up at rubbish hay)

We have also had hay with a lot of other plants in it other than grass which I also wouldn't give to the bunnies.

Our bunnies are all on this years fresh cut hay and they adore it. Sadly the price has gone up.:roll:

Our hay had thorny stalks in it, and the grass with the fluffy heads (Oh dear, I'm showing my lack of hay knowledge now!) but do you think that sounds okay? Also it's greeny which is how my vet knew it was this years hay but I assume this is okay. And in my opinion (and Charlie and April's) they hay smelt lovely! Like a field in summer (if that makes sense :lol and was very dry and stalky as you said.

Ack the hay was beautiful. It's so hard to believe it could be anything but perfect for my buns

as far as i know you should wait 6 weeks after it's cut to fed

Terri_louise177 said:

Yes exactly what I was thinking! In the wild they probably eat the grasses before there even cut and dried and you can't get fresher than that! and rabbits are grazers... so are always eating fresh grass?

Also I forgot to mention, Charlie sufferend from Malocclusion and had to have his front teeth removed (probably due to the lack of hay in his diet before he came to us according to our vet) but his back teeth are regularly checked and they are fine. Could this possibly be part of the issue?

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From reading your posts it would appear that not only does your bun have a history of health issues, but he also has a history of stasis over these last few months? In which case it is far less likely to be the hay and far more likely to be something else much more important going on with your bunny himself. With a history of dental malocclusion, being underweight and being treated for parasites? I'm assuming you are referring to E.C? I would have thought that his gut issues are likely to be related to this than the hay you are feeding, especially if you have another bunny who has been fine with the new bale? Is that right? Methinks you need either a more rabbit-savy vet or a good chat with your vet about this recurrent dysbiosis and mucus as this indicates an inflammed gut and a propensity to stasis, and underlying pain could be a significant contributing factor, and he may need further investigations, certainly a bloodwork profile might be helpful.

Terri_louise177 said:

Our hay had thorny stalks in it, and the grass with the fluffy heads (Oh dear, I'm showing my lack of hay knowledge now!) but do you think that sounds okay? Also it's greeny which is how my vet knew it was this years hay but I assume this is okay. And in my opinion (and Charlie and April's) they hay smelt lovely! Like a field in summer (if that makes sense :lol and was very dry and stalky as you said.

Ack the hay was beautiful. It's so hard to believe it could be anything but perfect for my buns

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sounds like lovely meadow hay

prettylupin said:

From reading your posts it would appear that not only does your bun have a history of health issues, but he also has a history of stasis over these last few months? In which case it is far less likely to be the hay and far more likely to be something else much more important going on with your bunny himself. With a history of dental malocclusion, being underweight and being treated for parasites? I'm assuming you are referring to E.C? I would have thought that his gut issues are likely to be related to this than the hay you are feeding, especially if you have another bunny who has been fine with the new bale? Is that right? Methinks you need either a more rabbit-savy vet or a good chat with your vet about this recurrent dysbiosis and mucus as this indicates an inflammed gut and a propensity to stasis, and underlying pain could be a significant contributing factor, and he may need further investigations, certainly a bloodwork profile might be helpful.

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Thank you for your reply. I hope it doesn't come across as if Charlie is a very unhappy and poorly bunny because I've always put his health first and he's very mischievious and active most of the day. I know he's a happy bun and to watch him you'd never know he had a poorly tummy. But unfortunetly I know very little about his life before he was with us. All I know is that he didn't know he should eat hay and his diet was souly musli except he would only eat the green and yellow bits. Which may be why he has a sensitive tum do you think? But I will do everything I can to get him better. My vet is Jason Burgess in Quedgeley and he is a rabbit savvy vet and I do trust him... but the hay comment puzzled me which is why I turned to this forum. I will ask him about blood tests and things when we go back in Thursday and everyone please send vibes for finding out what is wrong with Charlie and for him getting better. Oh and the Intradine was for coccidiosis as that's what Jason thinks may be causing all these tummy problems and weight loss. I'm about to read up on it now so I know more about it

Terri_louise177 said:

Thank you for your reply. I hope it doesn't come across as if Charlie is a very unhappy and poorly bunny because I've always put his health first and he's very mischievious and active most of the day. I know he's a happy bun and to watch him you'd never know he had a poorly tummy. But unfortunetly I know very little about his life before he was with us. All I know is that he didn't know he should eat hay and his diet was souly musli except he would only eat the green and yellow bits. Which may be why he has a sensitive tum do you think? But I will do everything I can to get him better. My vet is Jason Burgess in Quedgeley and he is a rabbit savvy vet and I do trust him... but the hay comment puzzled me which is why I turned to this forum. I will ask him about blood tests and things when we go back in Thursday and everyone please send vibes for finding out what is wrong with Charlie and for him getting better. Oh and the Intradine was for coccidiosis as that's what Jason thinks may be causing all these tummy problems and weight loss. I'm about to read up on it now so I know more about it

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I didn't realise this was your vet. In which case your bunny is in excellent hands and I am certain he will be eliminating contributing factors in trying to find the route cause of your bun's probs. I don't think you need to worry so much now, it was not clear from your posts that you had a rabbit specialist already, i'm sorry.

His comment regarding the hay may be him trying to limit contributing factors for your bun's episodes to try and stabilise his gut. If your bun has had ongoing probs (I appreciate that this has nothing to do with you.... I didn't for a min think your bun wasn't happy! ) then any dietary changes can cause more severe upset than in a bun with a stable caecum and gut motility - this is something that can take months to establish at the minimum. Jason may be trying to reduce any triggers and in some ways, very fresh hay could be a trigger for an underlying condition. However, if your bun enjoys this hay and for a bun who's never eaten hay before this is a huge achievement I too would be reluctant to stop feeding it. Perhaps you can alternate or give free choice alongside some other hays less likely to cause upset. Timothy and Oat hays may help.

Ive been told this before but i think it is to do with some hay being baled before it is dried properly .
If it has too high water content ...or is damp when baled due to rain..then it can ferment and cause probs when fed to buns .

so safer to feed older hay rather than fresh i suppose

saying that we are feeding fresh hay ...the buns love it and we have had no probs at all .

but then our hay is lovely a green but dried realy well .

i agree with other peoples comments in that i think there may be an underlying problem causing the symptoms in your bun .

hope you get it sorted .

prettylupin said:

I didn't realise this was your vet. In which case your bunny is in excellent hands and I am certain he will be eliminating contributing factors in trying to find the route cause of your bun's probs. I don't think you need to worry so much now, it was not clear from your posts that you had a rabbit specialist already, i'm sorry.

His comment regarding the hay may be him trying to limit contributing factors for your bun's episodes to try and stabilise his gut. If your bun has had ongoing probs (I appreciate that this has nothing to do with you.... I didn't for a min think your bun wasn't happy! ) then any dietary changes can cause more severe upset than in a bun with a stable caecum and gut motility - this is something that can take months to establish at the minimum. Jason may be trying to reduce any triggers and in some ways, very fresh hay could be a trigger for an underlying condition. However, if your bun enjoys this hay and for a bun who's never eaten hay before this is a huge achievement I too would be reluctant to stop feeding it. Perhaps you can alternate or give free choice alongside some other hays less likely to cause upset. Timothy and Oat hays may help.

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That is very reassuring ! I feel a million times better this morning. I was up until 3am researching different contributing factors and trying to establish the ones Charlie may be, or may have been, exposed too. And starting from today, along side the med Jason has giving, I know Charlie is going to be fine. I'm currently sat in the sun watching him chase and binky with April! So he must be feeling fine !

And I have come up with a compromise. I have thrown away all of the hay bale we had left, and kept the two bags I bagged up when we first bought it. And tomorrow I'm going to buy a new bale and store it using all the things that should arrive tomorrow to make sure it stays super dry (yes, I'm now extremely broke haha)! And I'm going to bag up some as soon as I can and leave it for a month or so, and just use the month old stuff for the moment. That way the hay should be around 1-3 months old at least.

Also I have timothy hay and oat hay (charlie's favourite) so they arn't just eating the bale things .

I was thinking that maybe he became poorly because the weather has been wet and I hear that can ruin a bale. I store it off the ground and covered, but it has been VERY wet recently and seeing as Charlie has a sensitive tum it probably kick started the bad poops . April has been fine but she's like Terminator bunny compared to Charlie! Her tummy is super strong

Thank you everyone for your replies though! I probably still be moping around worrying if it wasn't for all of the advice !