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Blood in hutch

Peter

New Kit
About 6 weeks ago I noticed blood in our rabbit's hutch. At first I thought he'd caught his foot when stamping, as he does that a lot. I noticed more again, some 3 weeks later so I took him to the vet, as I couldn't find any injury etc & he was his normal lively self. The vet couldn't find anything wrong, just advised us to give him more roughage. I've again found blood, again 3 weeks or so after the last lot but haven't taken him to the vet as yet because of the last outcome. There isn't a great amount, it's neat and not diluted as you'd get with urine and he's his usual self. I'm sure it is blood as I deal with the stuff in my work. He shares his home with a guinea pig but they don't fight & I've not found any injuries. I'm also sure it's the rabbit & not the GP as the blood is in the rabbit's favourite place to sit. I also found blood on the bottom of his foot where he's obviously trod in it.
Has anyone had this problem before & can you help? Thanks.
 
Sorry you have found blood in the hutch. It does sound a little mysterious given that there are no obvious injuries. The only thing I can ask is whether you have done a thorough check over of both the rabbit and the guinea pig? As they are prey animals they can hide their pain, and therefore any injuries, extremely well. It is very difficult to detect a prey animal that is in pain.

Check claws, ears, eyes, all over their bodies, for any nicks, cuts or bites etc.

It must have come from one of them. The main concern I have is that rabbits and guinea pigs can fight, usually the rabbit bullying the guinea pig, and serious injuries can be incurred.

Is your rabbit neutered? How old is he? Is he vaccinated against myxi etc?

Unless you can be 100% sure they are not fighting it may be best to separate them.

There are many more knowledgeable and experienced people than me on this forum so hope someone can give you more pointers.
 
i wouldnt be so sure its not the GP, the blood could have been on the foot because that was his weapon of choice, and it was in his fav. area to sit... well maybe the gp came over to that area and got beat ups for it?

dont rule it out, id give both animals a thorough checkover.
 
Rabbits and GPs should not be housed together. Not only is it possible for serious or even fatal injuries to occur but both have very different dietary needs. They also communicate in totally different ways and so neither will be able to 'understand' the communication behaviour of the other. GPs are vocal aswell as behavioural communicators. Rabbits wont understand a vocal message from a GP. A normal 'Bunny Nip' could cause a nasty injury to a much smaller GP or the GP, who does not 'understand' the 'language' of Rabbits may retaliate to the nip and attack the Rabbit who will then fight back.

I would advise you to keep both species apart and preferably pair them up with on of their own kind.

I would not be at all surprised if the blood was from the GP so I would check/h/her over again for any signs of a wound/abscess
 
Thanks

Firstly, thanks to all who replied.

Helgalush, I gave both the boys a check over after the first incident and found nothing. After the second, the vet checked Rascal, the rabbit, and found nothing external or internal. We've had them for about 18 months; Rascal is about 2 years old but we don't know how old Bubble, the guinea pig is. he was given to us by a friend after his brother, Squeak died, to keep Rascal company & provide company for himself. I've never seen them fight although I know Bubble gets miffed when Rascal sits in the doorway to the sleeping area & Bubble can't get passed. I've seen Rascal licking Bubble clean which is how well they get on together. Rascal is neutered & both are fully vaccinated, health checked, nails trimmed etc. The hutch they're in, a brand new chicken shack, is about 2 months old; I've never seen blood in the hutch they used to be in, which was smaller than the current one. They have even more room to avoid each other if they so wish.

skippersmom, as above, I've never seen/heard them fight, both checked over with negative result.

Jack's-Jane, I'm aware that some people think rabbits & GPs should be housed separately, although others don't; I asked the vet before we agreed to have the GP & I watched carefully when they were introduced, having told Bubble's owner he'd have to be returned if they fought. They've got on well, cuddle up together and as I've said to helgalush, I've seen Rascal cleaning Bubble (unless he was checking the taste!).

I haven't had Bubble checked by a vet, as I'm so convinced the blood is from Rascal. Whilst it's only a small amount, it'd be more for Bubble to lose than Rascal, proportionally speaking & I'd expect Bubble to show some sign despite any natural inclination to hide an injury. I'm still confused by what seems almost a regular 3 week gap & why it's suddenly started. Looks like Bubble may be taking a car journey to the vet. Thanks again for your prompt replies.
 
Rabbits and GPs should not be housed together. Not only is it possible for serious or even fatal injuries to occur but both have very different dietary needs. They also communicate in totally different ways and so neither will be able to 'understand' the communication behaviour of the other. GPs are vocal aswell as behavioural communicators. Rabbits wont understand a vocal message from a GP. A normal 'Bunny Nip' could cause a nasty injury to a much smaller GP or the GP, who does not 'understand' the 'language' of Rabbits may retaliate to the nip and attack the Rabbit who will then fight back.

I would advise you to keep both species apart and preferably pair them up with on of their own kind.

I would not be at all surprised if the blood was from the GP so I would check/h/her over again for any signs of a wound/abscess

Ditto.

A vet who says they can go together in my opinion is not helping you at all. It's a terrible idea :(
 
Hi Peter

It's definitley blood and not dark urine?? I have once or twice thought that my buck Carlo was bleeding when in fact it was his urine which was reddish
 
Do you feed a lot of carrots??? Carrot does stain urine...
and do ensure you have an exotic vet for both pets.Vets who havent studied these animals dont have much of an idea....Exotic vets are usually the ones to get with.Whereabouts are you?? perhaps someone is in your area and can suggest a bunny?GP savvy vet.....especially since your vet told you to give more roughage when you found blood....and couldnt really help you with your problem.xx
 
Do you feed a lot of carrots??? Carrot does stain urine...
and do ensure you have an exotic vet for both pets.Vets who havent studied these animals dont have much of an idea....Exotic vets are usually the ones to get with.Whereabouts are you?? perhaps someone is in your area and can suggest a bunny?GP savvy vet.....especially since your vet told you to give more roughage when you found blood....and couldnt really help you with your problem.xx

I have cut out carrots completley as Bobby was getting fat, their urine is now wee wee coloured
 
Shelleypops, I'll be very surprised if it's urine as it's not diluted as I'd expect with blood in urine; it has all the characteristics of fresh, undiluted blood. If it's dark urine it's very dark. I don't get that even when I've been drinking Guinness :)

Yvette, the lads don't get as many carrots as they used to & this was never a problem when they did get plenty. As for exotic vet, well, I live in Manchester & I've seen other rabbit owners at the vets we use. I'm confident he knows enough about rabbits to look after Rascal. A second opinion might be worthwhile, though. We cut down the carrots partly because I've been told they have a high sugar content & partly as we were advised to increase the amount of hay.

As for housing them together, I'm getting conflicting advice on various websites etc. It seems to be not recommended mainly down to the GP needing vitamin C in food, which the rabbit doesn't and the risk of the rabbit attacking the GP although there's anecdotal evidence that it depends on the individual animals. It'd be a shame to separate them plus I'd have the added cost & care associated with buying another GP to keep the current one happy & the same for the rabbit, as both are social animals & need company. Having a house rabbit is not an option as my wife wouldn't tolerate it. We didn't consider it initially as we had a cat at the time. She was very soft & laid back but you just never know. She died earlier this year & the lads continued to live in the backyard hutch.
 
Shelleypops, I'll be very surprised if it's urine as it's not diluted as I'd expect with blood in urine; it has all the characteristics of fresh, undiluted blood. If it's dark urine it's very dark. I don't get that even when I've been drinking Guinness :)



.

Oh Okay then, its just this urine was a very red and dark even.:)
 
Rabbits and GPs should not be housed together. Not only is it possible for serious or even fatal injuries to occur but both have very different dietary needs. They also communicate in totally different ways and so neither will be able to 'understand' the communication behaviour of the other. GPs are vocal aswell as behavioural communicators. Rabbits wont understand a vocal message from a GP. A normal 'Bunny Nip' could cause a nasty injury to a much smaller GP or the GP, who does not 'understand' the 'language' of Rabbits may retaliate to the nip and attack the Rabbit who will then fight back.

I would advise you to keep both species apart and preferably pair them up with on of their own kind.

I would not be at all surprised if the blood was from the GP so I would check/h/her over again for any signs of a wound/abscess

Totally agree. My first bun Smudge was housed with a GP before we got her. We noticed a small scab on her head, which we later found out was a GP bite. This turned into a rather large abscess on her head which she needed removing as well as tear ducts and sinuses being flushed. They should only be allowed together when under full supervision
 
Hi Peter, well I am a bit suspishious of the 'Bunny savvy'ness' of the vet you currently use due to the rather strange advise you were given, did he explain why he wanted you to increase the fibre and how it related to the mystrey blood?

In regards to the housing situation, did your vet actually say it would be om to have them housed together?
If they did then this 'to me' would confirm that they are not a bunny savvy practice tbh.
As Jane said they can not communicate properly so can cause bad arguments even if you have not seen them! In my opinion I would not want to risk the possibility of a fight breaking out and resulting in bad injury or possible loss of one of them.
You could have them in side by side hutches so they can still see each other if you think they are friends, that way they can still see each other but can not risk hurting one another.
 
The pigments in green leafy veg and dandelions can change urine colour, it doesn't have to be carrots. And I agree with shellypops, sometimes it is so dark it could easily be mistaken for blood.

Are you aware that your rabbit could be a carrier of Bordatella which could potentially kill your guinea pig. It can live in your rabbits nasal tract and cause the rabbit no harm whatsoever so you wouldn't necessarily know if your rabbit has it. How do you cope with the difference in dietry requirements?
 
Another thing to consider is that Rabbits can carry a pathogen (Bordetella Bronchiseptica) which may not causes them any illness but should they pass it on to the GP it is usually fatal :cry:
 
blood in hutch

I have certainly never known a vet recommend that g/pigs & rabbits be housed together - g/pigs can be bullied by rabbits. However, that is your choice. Does the rabbit not chase the g/pig when they outside in their run? Incidentally, how do you manage to feed separate food and ensure that your g/pig has the extra vit C he needs?
 
rachylou : Sorry, I should have been clearer in my original post, the vet's advice regarding the roughage was a separate point, he didn't state it was connected to the blood, other than checking the rabbit for piles - hence the extra roughage, just to be sure.

As for sharing the same hutch, that was a question I raised with him before we accepted the GP. He said it was OK. The concern regarding the GP getting enough of the right food is addressed by making sure when they're fed, the rabbit doesn't push him out of the way. As it happens, the GP is always the first there, the rabbit takes his time.

Babsie : they chase each other occasionally, as if in play, but there never seems to be any aggression. After 18 months together I'd expect to see some form of behavioural pattern or injuries. It's only in the last few weeks that the blood has appeared. The previous hutch was smaller so any territorial disputes etc would have occurred sooner, surely. I particularly expected it as the rabbit had the hutch to himself for about a month before the GP arrived, yet seemed to accept him straight away. If one wanted to keep out of the other's way, they've far more room to do so now. As for the extra vit C, he acts as normal & the vet said he was OK on the last check up, some months ago. This is what puzzles me : no previous fighting nor evidence such as clumps of fur or blood (until 6 weeks ago), both are thriving as normal, neither overweight at the expense of the other, and the 3 week gaps between the blood findings.

Jacks-Jane & Amy104 : have to confess I'd not heard of Bordetella Bronchiseptica; I've done a quick internet search & the GP doesn't show any of the symptoms currently. I'll be taking him to the vets as a result of the advice kindly given on this forum, so I'll quiz the vet about it at the time.

I do trust the vet, never had any cause for concern regarding the 3 cats we've had, a hamster & these 2 boys. My brother's used the same vet for 2 dogs & he's never raised any issues, either. It has a good local reputation but, as I said in an earlier post, maybe a second opinion would be beneficial.

I thought I'd done my research before getting these fellas, I've always had the view that if you take on an animal you do your best, despite the bills etc. . . beginning to feel a complete ignoramus!
 
rachylou : Sorry, I should have been clearer in my original post, the vet's advice regarding the roughage was a separate point, he didn't state it was connected to the blood, other than checking the rabbit for piles - hence the extra roughage, just to be sure.

As for sharing the same hutch, that was a question I raised with him before we accepted the GP. He said it was OK. The concern regarding the GP getting enough of the right food is addressed by making sure when they're fed, the rabbit doesn't push him out of the way. As it happens, the GP is always the first there, the rabbit takes his time.

Babsie : they chase each other occasionally, as if in play, but there never seems to be any aggression. After 18 months together I'd expect to see some form of behavioural pattern or injuries. It's only in the last few weeks that the blood has appeared. The previous hutch was smaller so any territorial disputes etc would have occurred sooner, surely. I particularly expected it as the rabbit had the hutch to himself for about a month before the GP arrived, yet seemed to accept him straight away. If one wanted to keep out of the other's way, they've far more room to do so now. As for the extra vit C, he acts as normal & the vet said he was OK on the last check up, some months ago. This is what puzzles me : no previous fighting nor evidence such as clumps of fur or blood (until 6 weeks ago), both are thriving as normal, neither overweight at the expense of the other, and the 3 week gaps between the blood findings.

Jacks-Jane & Amy104 : have to confess I'd not heard of Bordetella Bronchiseptica; I've done a quick internet search & the GP doesn't show any of the symptoms currently. I'll be taking him to the vets as a result of the advice kindly given on this forum, so I'll quiz the vet about it at the time.

I do trust the vet, never had any cause for concern regarding the 3 cats we've had, a hamster & these 2 boys. My brother's used the same vet for 2 dogs & he's never raised any issues, either. It has a good local reputation but, as I said in an earlier post, maybe a second opinion would be beneficial.

I thought I'd done my research before getting these fellas, I've always had the view that if you take on an animal you do your best, despite the bills etc. . . beginning to feel a complete ignoramus!

Not at all !!!

With regards to Bunny Savvy Vets. Unfortunately a Vet who's ace with cats and dogs may be clueless about Rabbits !! In Veterinary Medicine Rabbits are classified as 'Exotics' and the training given in this field is woefully inadequate at most universities. So it's really up to the individual Vet to broaden their knowledge on Rabbits. Some do but sadly not all, despite Rabbits being the third most popular Domestic Pet !!

Has your Vet advised you about neutering and vaccinating (Myxomatosis and VHD) your Rabbit ?

You can obtain GOOD information and advice from the Rabbit Welfare Association:

http://www.houserabbit.co.uk/resources/index.php?section=leaflets.html
 
rachylou : Sorry, I should have been clearer in my original post, the vet's advice regarding the roughage was a separate point, he didn't state it was connected to the blood, other than checking the rabbit for piles - hence the extra roughage, just to be sure.

As for sharing the same hutch, that was a question I raised with him before we accepted the GP. He said it was OK. The concern regarding the GP getting enough of the right food is addressed by making sure when they're fed, the rabbit doesn't push him out of the way. As it happens, the GP is always the first there, the rabbit takes his time.

Babsie : they chase each other occasionally, as if in play, but there never seems to be any aggression. After 18 months together I'd expect to see some form of behavioural pattern or injuries. It's only in the last few weeks that the blood has appeared. The previous hutch was smaller so any territorial disputes etc would have occurred sooner, surely. I particularly expected it as the rabbit had the hutch to himself for about a month before the GP arrived, yet seemed to accept him straight away. If one wanted to keep out of the other's way, they've far more room to do so now. As for the extra vit C, he acts as normal & the vet said he was OK on the last check up, some months ago. This is what puzzles me : no previous fighting nor evidence such as clumps of fur or blood (until 6 weeks ago), both are thriving as normal, neither overweight at the expense of the other, and the 3 week gaps between the blood findings.

Jacks-Jane & Amy104 : have to confess I'd not heard of Bordetella Bronchiseptica; I've done a quick internet search & the GP doesn't show any of the symptoms currently. I'll be taking him to the vets as a result of the advice kindly given on this forum, so I'll quiz the vet about it at the time.

I do trust the vet, never had any cause for concern regarding the 3 cats we've had, a hamster & these 2 boys. My brother's used the same vet for 2 dogs & he's never raised any issues, either. It has a good local reputation but, as I said in an earlier post, maybe a second opinion would be beneficial.

I thought I'd done my research before getting these fellas, I've always had the view that if you take on an animal you do your best, despite the bills etc. . . beginning to feel a complete ignoramus!

You are not a complete ignoramus!!The fact that you have come on the forum shows that you care about the welfare of your pets!

One thing I did want to comment on was that you mentioned you ahve used the vets for cats, hamsters and your brother has also used for dogs but I can not stress to you enough that just because they are competant in treating lots of other animals that does not mean they are rabbit savvy.
Why not have a look on here for questions you should ask the vets, maybe do an annonomus phone call and ask them some screening questions and see what they say.
 
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