Urolithiasis - anyone know anything?

Have just got back from the vet and it was bad news.

Sue's X-ray showed that one of her kidneys is completely calcified and the other is only half working. The vet said it was probably caused when she was younger by incorrect diet. He also said it is rare. He has spoken to two vets at other practices and they haven't come across it.

He said if I can find out from any other bunny lovers if they've had a bun with it what treatment they have had he will be happy to try it (I told him I belong to bunny forums). He's looked on-line and can't find much info. I suppose I should be pleased he is being honest, but feel at a bit of a loss now.

I need to give Sue a low calcium diet and try and bulk her up as she is losing weight and maybe give her some vitamin supplements. She currently has SS which I know is high in calcium. Does anyone know which pellet mix is low is calcium - but still has some goodness in it. She also has spring greens daily and occasional carrot and broccoli (which I think is high in calcium). I don't want to deprive the poor darling of her favourite foods. She loves bread - which I know is normally a bad thing to give buns - but if it puts weight on her, I am not sure it would be so awful to treat her.

The bill came to £137.97 for an X-ray with anaesthetic which seemed an awful lot to me. Does that sound about right? I wouldn't mind if she was better but she isn't

I don't know when I will recognise it is time for her to go to the Bridge. I don't want her to suffer as she will if she goes into renal failure. At the moment the vet agrees with me that it isn't the right time. She does have a good quality of life.

Sue and Peggy are so totally devoted (the vet nurse commented on it) I don't know how Peggy will cope with the worst happens. She will be so incredibly lonely. I was intending to bond Peggy and Sue with my other three but didn't and they may be a bit overwhelming for poor Peggy.

Maybe I shouldn't be worrying about that now, but I am sitting here in tears and it is all going around and around my head

where do you live ?

Hampshire, UK

mm thats a bit far. I could have recommeded a really good bunny vet in cheshire. My bunny had excess calcium but it was his bladder which it affected and he had an op to clean it out. Low calcium foods are oxbow bunny basics T and allen and page. I think they are about the lowest. some vets recommend that a drop of juice is duluted into drinking water, ie cranberry or ribena, this can help flush out the kidneys.
i have a really good email from a herbalist in USA called Debbie Hoyt. if you pm me yr email address i can fwd it onto you.

Thank you so much. Have sent you PM. If I thought it would help Sue I would go to Cheshire but she absolutely hates being in her carrier so the journey would really stress her out.

Where do you get the low calcium food from? I don't think I've seen that in any of my local pet shops. I'll try to add the cranberry to the water. My vet was very much of the opinion that we have nothing to lose by trying everything and anything. The only difficulty is that whatever I give Sue, Peggy will have too so I have to make sure I won't make her ill as she is definitely not losing weight!!!

Aww poor Sue ..im so mad with her previous owners .. They came to us in a state but of course we couldnt see what was going on inside.


i think you can get oxbow basic online and yes it is lowest in calcium .

i give nemo dried cranberries . he has around 4 or 6 a day .
nemo has trouble with calcium in his wee ...its used to be realy sludgy but since giving these it isnt nearly as bad .

give her a cuddle from me

Yes, calcified kidneys are rare.
Your own vet can phone Richard Saunders in Langford Bristol for advice from a top UK bunny vet. (Other exotic specialist vets consult him this way)
They hold a bunny clinic on Weds.

have emailed you x

Sorry to hear about Sue

The price you paid for Xray and GA sounds about right to me, i'm in hampshire too and we paid about the same for the same procedure. I agree with Thumps about asking your vet to make a vet to vet advice referral from an exotics specialist such as Langford Vets, this would IMO be the least stress for Sue and still get you the info you needed.

Spring greens can be high in calcium, most brassicas are, see if there are some low calcium greens or wild plants you could utilise instead?

There are two ways that calcium is deposited in tissues, one is where blood calcium levels are dangerously high and calcium precipitates out in soft tissue, the other is where calcium is deposited in damaged tissue following a strong inflammatory response.
If excess calcium in the diet was the only cause (and this would be unusual as rabbits are designed to eliminate calcium freely) then other tissues would be likely to show evidence of calcium deposition too, even if only in tiny amounts.
What I have seen more commonly is underlying kidney problems (renal failure, discrete renal stones, E. cuniculi related damage etc) and secondary calcification of the damaged tissue which further distorts the normal kidney anatomy and its function.
I try to get an idea of how good remaining kidney function is (and whether there are other health problems) by a combination or urine and blood tests and also test for E.cuniculi. Low calcium, plenty of fluids and medication to maximise kidney blood flow are the base standard for treatment, followed by specific treatment if an underlying kidney problem is identified. Pain relief is important in some cases (but not all seem to get discomfort). However I have seen rabbits with this condition suffer from repeated bouts of stasis as they are uncomfortable and these need ongonig pain relief (but not metacam or similar medications). Unfortunately it is a difficult problem to rectify as the kidney is very poor at healing and existing damage cannot be reversed.

Thank you everyone. I have e-mailed some of the info to my vet. I hope he can 'phone the vet in Swindon tomorrow. He said he spoke to two colleagues today but didn't specify which ones.

I just want to do absolutely everything I can for my poor baby. I look at her snuggled up with Peggy and it breaks my heart. Why does loving our fur family hurt so much? My foster bun Justin went to the Bridge earlier this year and I still miss him.

My friends aren't 'bunny people' and if anyone says to me 'She is JUST a bun', I am likely to become violent!!!!

Thank goodness for this site

Rhianna said:

Thank you everyone. I have e-mailed some of the info to my vet. I hope he can 'phone the vet in Swindon tomorrow. He said he spoke to two colleagues today but didn't specify which ones.

I just want to do absolutely everything I can for my poor baby. I look at her snuggled up with Peggy and it breaks my heart. Why does loving our fur family hurt so much? My foster bun Justin went to the Bridge earlier this year and I still miss him.

My friends aren't 'bunny people' and if anyone says to me 'She is JUST a bun', I am likely to become violent!!!!

Thank goodness for this site

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The vet in Swindon, who posted is my own vet. I cannot recommend them highly enough. They can only discuss Sue with your own vet. Tel01793 603 800. Fax01793 603 801.

Rhianna said:

Hampshire, UK

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Not sure which bit of Hampshire you live? I use John Chitty, who used to be in Andover but now in Salisbury. He does, however, arrange consultations in other places. He is an excellent exotic pet vet and has always been brilliant with my rabbits. Have sent you pm with his mobile phone number. If you ring him, I'm sure he will help all he can. Good luck. x

I was in Andover today but actually live in Havant. I've heard of John Chitty before and know someone who sees him regularly who lives near me. Thank you for that. I will let my vet know and see if he is happy to 'phone him as although I saw Sue's X-rays and the vet did try and explain them to me, if I am honest I didn't fully understand everything he was saying and I know I won't remember it all. I got the basics because I repeated it back to make sure I had understood it correctly. I was also quite distressed which didn't help my memory.

I've just come back from my evening class where I made the mistake of telling the others about Sue. One thought I was mad spending that amount on a bunny and said she didn't do that for her budgie but as he was old let him die as the vet bill would have been more than two budgies:shock: No-one understood how upset I am or how much Sue means to me.

Thank goodness for like-minded forum members.

thumps_ said:

The vet in Swindon, who posted is my own vet. I cannot recommend them highly enough. They can only discuss Sue with your own vet. Tel01793 603 800. Fax01793 603 801.

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Neither can I. I also used GWR for an exotics referral in preference to John Chitty.

I e-mailed my vet the info but haven't heard anything so will give him a ring.

I put Sue out on the grass yesterday for a bounce around and she seemed happy enough. She doesn't seem to eat the grass but I've just picked some and put it in her hutch and she is nomming it madly. Fortunately, I've only mowed the lawn once this year so the grass is lovely and long.

I've given her some bread to bulk her out a bit and her usual spring greens. The list you sent me barb was really helpful - thank you so much. I'm getting some dried cranberries today (thanks Angie).

I also want to put some juice or something in their water to encourage Sue to drink more. I know pineapple juice is good but how is it best to buy it? I guess the stuff from concentrate is probably not good?

I have to be careful what I am feeding Sue as Peggy is quite a chunk and they share their food. If I separate them to feed Sue they will both get stressed as they are such a devoted couple.

I am trying to remain positive, but realistic and am still unsure what is best for Peggy when the worst happens. I am so worried about her pining and going into stasis. She is a dental bun too. I had intended to rehome a baby bun when I increased my fur family and think maybe Peggy would mother one if I did that. Knowing my luck there won't be any babies or young buns available to rescue when Peggy needs a little friend.

I know with my cats they always accept kittens far easier than adult cats - but then bunnies aren't cats!!!

Sue still seems to be enjoying life. I am taking things day by day - but it hurts so much to know there is nothing I can do to make her better. She does accept reiki - but only for a short while.

It's hard being a Bunny Mummy sometimes

Thank you all so much for your help.

I had to see my vet yesterday as one of my cats is poorly and was having trouble breathing. He had received my e-mail and was trying to contact the vets I had suggested.

I've been giving Sue dried cranberries, fruit juice (not from concentrate) mixed with her drinking water, fresh grass, bread, yummy hay, spring greens, carrots and some apple. I bought some Excel pellets today with cranberries in. They are for mature buns and seem low in calcium.

Sue came out of her hutch today and still seems to be mobile and enjoying her noms. I think she is losing weight though and the vet said if she loses any more it would be kinder to put her to sleep (or words to that effect).

Peggy is definitely putting weight on. It is so difficult as they share their food - literally. One takes a mouthful and then the next one does. It is impossible to feed Sue without Peggy having some. If I separate them neither will eat and I don't want to cause Sue any stress.

Sue is such a gorgeous bun. It is so unfair that she was neglected for four years and now when she has the chance to live happily with her beloved Peggy she has an illness I can't make better. I feel totally helpless. I haven't even been able to put her out on the grass as the weather here is rainy and quite cold at times.

Hi, I' sorry to hear about the problems your buny has. I'm interested in low calcium diets as my bunny Minstrel has urine problems with no other symptoms than incontinence and a kind of 'skin' on her accidents.

Can I ask how old Sue is and what kind of symptoms she had/ has?

Sue is a BARC rescue bun and I think she is about four. She started losing weight for no apparent reason. My vet wormed her which made no difference so he X-rayed her and picked up that only half a kidney was working.

I am giving her food which is low calcium and also lots of fresh grass and dandelion leaves, which she loves. She did eat dried cranberries but then seemed to go off them.

She is still lively and enjoys snuggling with Peggy and is very enthusiastic about her noms. I am taking each day at a time.

Good luck with Minstrel's diet.

I'm so sorry I missed this at the time but my Rosie has one very calcified kidney which we found by accident when xraying her injured spine.

We gave her Sub-Q fluids which helped flush her kidneys and because of her spinal stuff we decided not to pursue anything else and alowed her to live and made her life wonderful until it was clear she was ready to go. The Sub Q fluids did make a huge difference though, they really did.