EC or a tumour?/Sue gone in for tests

I remember reading theads about EC and thinking how awful it sounded but can't recall that much about it other than that.

I took two of my buns in for their myxi jab this week and also took another two, Peggy and Sue (former BARC buns) to have their teeth checked. Both sets of teeth were fine (although I have to keep an eye on Peggy) but Sue has lost weight (as I had suspected).

The vet suggested worming them both and then to bring Sue back to be weighed again. If she has lost more he will take bloods. I asked what he would be testing for and he said he wasn't sure whether to test for EC - would I want to know? I wasn't sure what he meant and he had spent ages with my four buns and had been running late anyway. Peggy and Sue are kept outside. They are not bonded with my other three yet but they do rub noses through the wire. As it is a virus I guess if Sue does have EC all the others will need to be tested?

Is EC incurable? If there is anything that could be done, then I would want to know and do all I could for Sue. Neither Peggy or Sue are cuddle buns and hate being handled. Sue did take her Panacur on a small piece of wholemeal bread (not ideal I know but I didn't want to stress her out by shoving a syringe in her mouth), but Peggy wouldn't eat it. She doesn't eat when I am watching for some reason!

I am now really worried about all my buns. I have two indoor buns as well - but hopefully they wouldn't have caught it too.

Any info from those of you who have had buns with EC would be appreciated. I haven't had Sue that long and she was in rescue ages before coming to me. I want to give her a long and happy life if I possibly can. I was stroking her this evening while she was nomming hay and looking at her little face was breaking my heart.

http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/ecuniculi.htm

EC can be present in a bun (ie the bloods will show that they have been exposed to it) but show no manifestations or harm them in any way. So even if EC showed up theres no guarantee tyat this is infact the CAUSE of a problem. Obviously its worth treating for it anyway though, if nothing else shows up in the bloods.
Something like 70% of buns will show up positive to having been exposed to EC at some point, so try not to panic just yet :wave:
sending lotsa vibes xxxx

Try not to worry Rhianna. My Basil is just getting over EC. I am keeping positive about his recovery as he is doing really well. Even if your bun did test positve, I don't think this means she will definately develope EC. When Basil had it, he was showing definate symtoms. We will just have to make sure that he has Panacur at regular intervals and hope this keeps things under control. A small price to pay to keep my little man healthy

Thanks for the link and the comments. I am trying not to panic but you know how it is when a bun is poorly - much stress!!!

Having read the link I am confused as to how Sue has caught EC (if she has it). She and Peggy are the cleanest of my seven buns. They use their litter tray really well and it is in the sleeping part of their hutch and their water bottle and food is at the other end of the hutch, in the more open part. I can't see how they could have drunk water with urine in it.

I guess it could have happened before they went to BARC as I think they were neglected and they are four, so not young buns. My vet has said Peggy didn't have the correct diet as a baby bun. He could tell from her teeth apparently.

I don't want to stress Sue out so I have been putting the paste on a small piece of wholemeal bread and Sue noms it with obvious relish, clearly enjoying the unusual nom. Peggy, on the other hand, won't eat when I am watching and I am so worried Sue will end up eating double the dose, that I haven't been giving Peggy hers. She is putting weight on and shows no signs of ill-health at all. She hates being picked up - as does Sue - so I don't know whether to risk stressing her. I may wait until I get the results of any blood tests and if Sue does have EC then worm Peggy.

I hate to think of poor Sue being poorly. My foster bun, Justin (now sadly at the Bridge) lost weight and he had a tumour. Sue seems well in herself so I don't think she is in any pain at all. She is still jumping out of the hutch each morning when I open the door so she can explore the yard and kicking me when I pick her up for bottom checks.

Will keep on with the wormer and then take her back to be weighed again. My vet goes for three weeks holiday in Sept though and I have never met his locum - who apparently comes from Italy! I will try and take Sue back before he goes for his leave.

Peggy and Sue are totally devoted to each other. I hate to think what would happen to Peggy if Sue was really ill I feel bad now about not having bonded them with my outdoor three but I was waiting until they had really settled in and were happier being held before I put them through the stress of bonding. I just kept putting it off.

Any spare vibes would be appreciated please for my gorgeous Sue bun.

EC isn't really caught. A high percentage of rabbits have it but show no symptoms. The symptoms generally come when their immune system is a bit low.

Hope she continues to put on weight. The vet has probably suggested the wormer as a precaution. It's a good thing to do with any new rabbit. Generally a 28 day course is recommended.

Apparently more than 50% of bunnies have EC and I suppose they get it from their mums when they are tiny. It can then flare up at times of stress or when they are feeling a bit down, a bit like the cold sore virus in people.

My bunny Lola had head tilt which was caused by EC. The vet did do a blood test which came up as positive. We did the test so that we could rule out EC if it was negative but it wasn't a surprise that it was positive. Lola made a full recovery but I think her healthy appetite saw her through it.

Does Sue has any other symptoms? Is she eating ok?

I do wonder if vets try to attribute all rabbit ailments to EC as when my bunny Smudge first went to the vets for his current urine infection the vet prescribed panacur as well as the standard meds. I haven't yet read anywhere that difficulty peeing on it's own is a symptom of EC and weight loss could also have other causes. That said giving Sue panacur shouldn't do any harm if it doesn't stress her out (lucky you, my cuddle buns hate it with a passion!).

By the way, according to my vet there is no problem if you overdose your bunny on panacur. I had an emergency call to them as when I was using one of those syringes with the screw stop for each dose as I somehow gave two graduations by mistake.

Vibes for Peggy and Sue :wave:

Yes, Sue is eating well. She just doesn't seem 'right' and seems to have lost some weight which is why I took her along with George and Gemma when they had their myxi jabs. She looks a bit sad, if that makes any sense, but it is nothing I can quantify - she still kicks and explores her run and grooms Peggy.

The vet kept asking about diarrhoea but Peggy and Sue are great about using their tray and droppings are as usual - there has never been any diarrhoea and I would have noticed when I cleaned them out if there had been as the yard where they bounce is concrete.

I don't think Sue has lost any more weight since I took her to the vet - but that could be wishful thinking. I hate it that buns hide pain so well - I worry that she is suffering and me not know. I keep looking at her and wishing she could speak to me. I do trust my vet though - he is brilliant with my bunnies (and cats). Just wish he wasn't going on holiday in September (selfishly).

Sending get well vibes to Sue. Don't know if this any help to you but the signs that Basil had EC were, moving his head from side to side as if her was reading a book, eyes flickering very quickly (there is a proper name for this but I have forgotten it, sorry), circling, when we put him on the ground he ran round and round in tiny circles and head tilt. I am not sure if there are any more symptoms for EC but I think Basil had the common ones. The vet told us that he had probably been infected by his mum and then some little upset or stress actually caused the parasite to effect his system which may have been low at that time. It is good that Sue is still eating well and I really hope things turn out ok for you.

basirascal said:

Sending get well vibes to Sue. Don't know if this any help to you but the signs that Basil had EC were, moving his head from side to side as if her was reading a book, eyes flickering very quickly (there is a proper name for this but I have forgotten it, sorry), circling, when we put him on the ground he ran round and round in tiny circles and head tilt. I am not sure if there are any more symptoms for EC but I think Basil had the common ones. The vet told us that he had probably been infected by his mum and then some little upset or stress actually caused the parasite to effect his system which may have been low at that time. It is good that Sue is still eating well and I really hope things turn out ok for you.

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This is what Mischa had only he could stand up enough to run in circles, he just flipped over and over and over again trying to regain his balance. That was heartbreaking to see, cos you would right him and then 30 seconds later it would start again.

I believe EC covers a wide range of symptoms because it's neurological.

That sounds awful - and incredibly distressing to witness. Sue hasn't moved much so far today (is in the same part of the hutch now as when I went to work earlier) but then neither has Peggy. It's grey and rainy here so I don't blame them for not wanting to jump out of their warm, snug hutch. They've eaten their breakfast and look much as always - snuggled up together.

I am on-call tonight so will go and give Sue her paste soon in case I get called in. I think she looks forward to her small piece of bread. I give her that before I feed their supper and top up their hay so it's all she has available, apart from older hay. They have some carrots with tops tonight as a treat. They both love their carrots. I know they are high in calories but Sue needs to put on some weight and I'd feel mean giving her carrots and not Peggy.

Thank you all for your support. I was trying to explain about EC at work this morning and got some very blank looks. I don't know many bunny people in real life.

I normally say it's a parasite in the brain and causes neurological problems. That's how the vet explained it to me.

My lops love the paste and lick it from the tube! I know some people put it on a leaf and roll it up.

Lola's EC started with a head tilt but when she got worse she had the flickering eyes and just kept rolling over and over. She's completely back to normal now.

The way I understand EC is that the parasites attack the nerves which go from the bit in the ear which determine balance to the brain. That nerve swells up and the bunny can't tell which way is up so is constantly trying to right itself. EC can also attack other nerves such as those which help the bunny control it's back legs.

My vet explained that the reason metacam helped was because it's an anti-inflammatory so reduced the swelling of those nerves.

By the way, I'm soooo jealous of you Schuette with rabbits who like panacur. All my four absolutely detest it and the month we spent giving it to them last year was awful!

Wuezybun said:

By the way, I'm soooo jealous of you Schuette with rabbits who like panacur. All my four absolutely detest it and the month we spent giving it to them last year was awful!

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Oh only two of them do! The other two are very wriggly and make up for it! With those two I give them it on a bit of spring green rolled up.

Well, touch wood, Sue seems no different. I keep staring at the poor bun looking for signs of head tilt or loss of balance.

I don't know if she likes the paste but she certainly loves wholemeal bread. Peggy tried to take it from her yesterday evening so I am going to try giving some to both of them today and hope that Peggy can be wormed too.

It's quite nice here today so I am going to put them both in a run. It's on grass whereas they usually go in back yard which is concrete so it makes a nice change for them to have a different surface to bounce on.

I gave Sue some apple last night as well as carrots with the tops and the usual spring greens. The others all got the same. Sue nommed the apple first - there is certainly nothing wrong with her appetite! She is a good hay eater too. She is such a gorgeous squishy bun with an adorable face and lovely lop ears - I melt when I look at her and so hope she is going to be OK.

Have just been out to feed the buns and gave Sue a cuddle. She has definitely lost some more weight

Will make another vet appointment to get her weighed to confirm it and see where we go from here. Taking bloods was the next step he suggested. Anything else she should be having? She doesn't seem in any pain and is still eating well and jumping out of the hutch into the run when I open the door. She only put up with being cuddled for a short while too - she has never liked being picked up, even though I keep telling her how important regular bottom checks are

I don't think she had a very good life before she went to BARC and she hasn't been with me that long. She and Peggy are totally devoted - am already worrying about what I will do if the worst happens. I must try and stay positive or Sue will pick up on it.

Any spare vibes for my darling girl would be much appreciated please.

My darling Sue went to the vet this morning. She has lost some more weight - a very tiny amount, but it's not good. She is incredibly difficult for the vet to examine as she struggles so much.

I asked the vet if he thought it could be a tumour and he had a feel and noticed a lump by the tummy. He said it could be food. He checked her teeth and they are fine - and she is eating well anyway.

He suggested an x-ray, bloods and a check of her teeth while she is asleep so I have left her there. She has Peggy with her for company.

I am short of money at the moment (have been off work sick and don't get sick pay from two of my jobs) and Sue isn't insured but my vet is great and I am sure he will let me pay in instalments if the bill becomes too large. I just want her to be OK, but it doesn't look good.

She does have a good quality of life though so whatever is wrong I wouldn't let her go to the Bridge yet. Apart from her weight loss she is acting as usual. Is still feisty, eating, drinking and coming out in her run and snuggling with Peggy. She has tiny sore on her ear as well but I think she has either scratched it or had a disagreement with Peggy, although the latter is unlikely.

I have to go to Andover this afternoon (live in Havant) and know I will have trouble concentrating on my meeting. I just want my baby back and for her to be OK.

Please, please send my beautiful Sue bun any spare vibes you have. She is an adorable, squishy bundle of loveliness and deserves to be happy as her first four years before she went to BARC weren't brilliant.

I really hope that you get some good news about Sue after the tests.
Sending millions of vibes for her xx

Thinking of you Rhianna and your little Sue. You are right to keep positive about her. Basil had to stay overnight in the Vets with his EC, they were brilliant, I felt sick with worry that I would never get him back again, because he was so poorly when he was admitted. I couldn't believe he was still alive the next morning, but he was and also improving. I think I cried non stop for best part of two days because I was so scared we'd lose him. We are now just over a month on and he has well and truely earned his nickname Basil Rascal, he is in to everything, eats like a small donkey, loves to be cuddled and petted and is just so full of life and fun. I feel so lucky and pray he continues in this way (he's only about 13 weeks old). So I'm sending heaps of positive vibes your way, you are doing the best you can for Sue and the Vets will too.