PDA

View Full Version : My Rabbit Is Ill & Not Convinced Of Vet Diagnosis



Jinny
10-07-2010, 01:19 PM
I'm worried about my indoor, rescue, male, uncastrated (on vets advice due to lung problems), 8yr old Lionhead Rabbit, Lightsa. He weighs 2.45kg. We are in London, UK.

We took him to the vet in the morning, because he spent the night aggitated and digging restlessly in his cage. It started about 1am, and I fell asleep an hour later. But my mum said she heard him all night digging a few scrapes, laying down, getting up, hopping a few hops and digging a few scrapes again for most of the night which is odd because he is usually quite inactive. In between that he is drinking a lot. The vet suggested heat - but I've never known him like this, even on hot days, and this room is the coolest in the house with a fan on (but not pointing in his direction or near him) all the time, because of the animals.

2 weeks ago we had him at the vet as there was blood in the urine and his breathing was very fast - the vet gave him a pain killer and some Baytril for 6 days. This seemed to make him brighter and get him going again. But we also noticed at that time, he was drinking large amounts, and he was breathing very fast still. So much so his ears shake and head bobs rapidly.

Unfortunately I couldn't tell if the bloodied urine had returned this morning, but he didn't poop much when I put him on the floor while I got ready this morning. He usually does.

The vet this morning, checked his heart and lungs - sounded normal and no infections - guts palpated - seemed fine but a little tender - temperature normal - and his weight is holding level. As Lightsa is prone to having Gut stasis, after the first year of his life with his previous owners he was fed dog biscuits only, I suggested this to the vet, who said we would treat him as having that and his symptoms matched that - but I can't remember him being like this - in the past he just stays as still as possible. He gave him Metacam Injection - 20ml and Metoclopramide Injection 10mg/2ml. And gave me some Oxbrow Critical Care to feed him with.

We got home about 2hours ago. He seemed to settle a bit (could just have been adrenalin), but now he is back to this constant rest a few mins, get up - hop - dig - lay down thing and rapid breathing. This is happening every 2-4 minutes and I am very worried. He just isn't right. The vet said that if he's not better on Monday, to bring him back for blood tests and x-rays. My pensioner mother is crying over it, because of the cost already for both visits 150 so far, and I've been out of work over a year, due to ill health and only had surgery 19 days ago, so financially thats a worry too. At times like this I wish I'd insured Lightsa - but his health is much more important so we will do whatever it takes.

Any suggestions on what it might be???? Could it really be just heat or another bout of Gut Stasis? He won't go near any coolers in his cage because he was beaten with plastic cooler things and water bottles by his previous owner.

yvette
10-07-2010, 01:22 PM
Im sorry to hear of all your problems.
Is Lightsa (wonderful name btw) eating?? Pooping???

bunlover
10-07-2010, 01:23 PM
i would suggest goignt o see another vet for a referral not sure where in london you are but christobel in twiceknham is very rabbit savvy it could bet eh heat but then you know your bunny and the blood in urine concerns me is he neutered? x

yvette
10-07-2010, 01:24 PM
On second thoughts, does bun eat alot of carrot?? This tends to make the urine a bit on the side of reddish.
If it is blood, then I would be concerned and would seek another opinion.xxxxxxx

Hugo's There
10-07-2010, 01:27 PM
Is he weeing OK. Did the vet comment on whether his bladder felt empty? As he has urine problems before I was wondering if his bladder is able to empty properly :? Did the vet take a urine sample this time?

prettylupin
10-07-2010, 01:30 PM
I've only skimmed your post so apologies if I miss crucial details, but the getting up and down and difficulty in getting comfy to me sounds very familiar for gas in the abdomen somewhere. A tender gut would also confirm this. A conscious Xray might have been helpful to check for obstruction or air pockets to confirm this.
Rapid breathing in itself can occur with gas (bloat) because the chest cavity in a rabbit is very small so a tummy or gut filled with gas can squash the chest and bunny finds it harder to breathe so breathes faster. An elderly rabbit will naturally find pain and breathing harder to deal with as poorer immunity and potentially poorer lung and heart capacity also.

My biggest concern for your bun is dehydration. Did the vet give him any fluids at all under the skin? Sub-cut fluids? These are essential for a bun with gas/bloat pain, because as the gut slows (stasis - which is likely here) draws water out of the bowel, and a bun breathing faster loses more fluid through respiration - especially in the heat today.

Is he eating at all? I would be trying to get oral fluids in to him alongside any syringe food and as much oral fluid as you can every couple of hours. Use a 1ml syringe. Cooled brewed herbal tea e.g. camomile or peppermint or nettle or fennel seems to go down better than plain water. Personally, I would take him back for sub-cut fluids and another examination - but the drugs given are mostly sufficient - although if the pain is that bad then I would want a conscious Xray if possible and for bun to have an injection of vetergesic (opiate) a much stronger pain killer than metacam. I have a bun who bloats badly and quickly and this we find to be the most effective alongside fluids.
If he's not eating then syringe him every few hours food also and keep tempting him with wet washed greens - fresh herbs etc. The lack of droppings seems to confirm onset of stasis also. No doubt at his age and with his history of haematuria there could be something else more significant going on. Stasis/bloat is usually a symptom of an underlying pathology. The heat today will be making anything worse -esp respiratory problems.
But a stasis bun may feel cool to touch and unable to maintain body heat - if ears feel cool - bun will need warming up. If bun feels boiling - then will need cooling down with a fan etc.

Are you anywhere near Twickenham?

Jinny
10-07-2010, 01:59 PM
The vet didn't mention the urine again really. As I told him I didn't know... for the first time in my life I didn't pay attention, and let my guard slip, to that side of things, as I have been trying to get myself well again, and I feel so very guilty about it. I am usually so aware. I just wanted to get to the vet asap this morning so didn't hang about to find out about the urine. I just felt and feel he is in pain or discomfort somehow.

Lightsa (short for "Lights are on but no-one's home" because he has a vacant look about him) didn't eat last night's dinner, and only picked at the pellets . He can't have fresh vegetables - because even a tiny piece gives him terrible diarreoha, but he gets the following on a daily basis because he doesn't hold his weight well, and the improvement in him was astounding as soon as he started this new vet advised, diet plan:

As much fresh meadow hay as he wants (I also use it as bedding for him as he reacts to most other beddings)
A full clean bottle of Water to drink
2 handfuls of Burgess Excel Rabbit Nuggets
4 x disks of Fenugreek Crunchies (to increase his appetite)
A pinch of Naturals Herb Plus dried herbs
A large pinch of Naturals Herbal Garden dried herbs but in a courser form
A handful of Naturals Dandelion Delight
A handful of Burgess Excel Herba ge
A few dried carrot pellets
4 x Vitakraft Alfa Rings
2 x Vitakraft Lofty's Nettle Biscuits

He picked a few bit of hay when he got home, but this breathing thing and the digging thing is just so out of character.

I have another bunny - a male (also uncastrated due to lung issues) 8yr old Netherland Dwarf, from the same place I rescued Lightsa from - and he is in the cage next door so they can see each other - is completely chilled out and breathing normally.

The both get half a day supervised floor time as both parents are retired, and in the room with them all day - and I've been on a guest bed in the room since my surgery - and refused to have plants like Lilys in here as I heard they are toxic to bunnies. The room is bunny-proofed, and to be honest, both buns have been on my bed out of their choice during their floor time, so I know it was nothing that he could have eaten.

I just wish I knew how to make him more comfortable - he is obviously distressed.

Bunlover - Yes I spoke to Christobel in Twickenham some time ago - she recommended I see a Mr G. Clarke in Staines - part of the Willet House Practice, as it's nearer to me, and turned out to be my regular vet for all our other pets anyway, and over the years I've been very happy with Mr Clarke and trust him implicitly - but he wasn't there this morning, or the last time. I am definately asking to see him next visit - problem is he works only a couple days in clinics, the rest in surgery.

I was reading on GI stasis - nowhere it mentions increased thirst or aggitated restlessness as a symptom - I don't know - I could be wrong.... I feel so helpless. :(

rachylou
10-07-2010, 02:05 PM
Did the vet check his teeth?

prettylupin
10-07-2010, 02:09 PM
I was reading on GI stasis - nowhere it mentions increased thirst or aggitated restlessness as a symptom - I don't know - I could be wrong.... I feel so helpless. :(

When a bun stops eating they pretty much stop drinking too. As a complex runaway train of events.... the body starts to draw water out of the bowel in order to maintain renal and circulating blood volume, but also the pain mechanism feedback has some effect on the guts also and absorption of water. Dehydration ensues very quickly and any ingesta in the guts which is already stagnant - begins to dry out further and become even more impacted - making it harder to pass, this is why getting fluids to the bowel is so important. When a bun is very poorly they can not get the water into the guts orally quickly enough so sub-cutaneous is better, but poorly perfused tissues when a bun is very moribund makes even this hard so in these cases an IV drip is the best way.

Buns can't sweat so lose most of their fluid through respiration. Therefore any increased rate of respiration means more fluid is lost from a bun already dehydrated.

I have constantly been amazed at the amount of fluid required when either of my buns have been in full blown stasis to rehydrate the impacted ingesta in the gut. Their little bodies literally suck it up. Poppy once took 90ml of sub-cut fluid over less than 24 hours, alongside 30ml oral fluids, in order to pass the driest piece of ingesta I have ever seen a day later.

prettylupin
10-07-2010, 02:12 PM
I just felt and feel he is in pain or discomfort somehow.



Then he may well need stronger pain relief. NSAID's such as metacam can be given alongside Opiate pain relief if necessary (vetergesic).

prettylupin
10-07-2010, 02:16 PM
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=484

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

and copied from a RWAF article:
Fluids

The key to treating any critically ill rabbit is warmed fluids by a suitable route. Rabbits need 80-100ml of fluid per kg every 24 hours, plus replacement of losses in diarrhoea/mucus, plus catching up on losses that have already occurred. Fluid losses from the gut contain salts (electrolytes) as well as water. Both need to be replaced, so plain water may not be sufficient.

Orally Giving fluids by mouth will only help mildly affected rabbits. If the guts are at a standstill or the rabbit is shocked, the fluid will not be absorbed. Electrolyte replacement fluids (e.g. Lectade) can be obtained from the vet for oral therapy. It can be very difficult to give the quantity of fluid required by forced syringing into a reluctant rabbit!

Subcutaneously Probably the most popular way to give fluids to moderate and severely ill rabbits. Fluid is injected under the loose skin of the scruff/shoulders, from where it can be absorbed into the bloodstream. Ask your vet to teach you how to give subcutaneous injections. Hartmann's (lactated Ringer's) solution or Normal Saline are both suitable. These come in a flexible bag, which can be microwaved to blood temperature. Desperately sick rabbits don't reliably absorb subcut fluids, because blood supply to the skin is reduced in shock.

Intraperitoneal Fluid can be injected into the abdomina cavity. It's trickier than subcut, but better absorbed. Some vets are willing to teach competent owners - others avoid this route themselves!

Intravenous and intraosseous fluids may be given to severely ill rabbits as in-patients. Realistically, only used for companion rabbits.

Jack's-Jane
10-07-2010, 02:33 PM
I only have a few secs to skim this thread but to me it sounds as though Uroliths (bladder stones) are a possibility. This would cause increased drinking and severe abdominal pain (leading to not eating, restlessness, GI tract hypomotility).

I would press for more diagnostics ASAP.

Jinny
10-07-2010, 02:40 PM
Prettylupin - Thank you for your response! And thanks to the others too!

The vet said he was very well hydrated - clipped away a little fur and did the skin pinch test. He also said his eye and mouth membranes looked well for hydration in colour. Personally I'm not surprised as he has been drinking so very much more than normal.

I am now worried about the fluid thing... I will syringe feed him fluids hourly now. The vet said he didn't think at this stage it was worth the x-rays and bloodwork, or fluids as he is well hydrated. But from what you say - he could be wrong on that score. Not saying he doesn't know - just that maybe he might not be so well aqauinted with how fast these little fuzzies go downhill.

I found a site that said Simethicone can help - 1ml every 3 hours. Oddly enough I am on the pure Simethicone tablet which I have to crush and dissolve in water for myself - after my surgery, and Calomile tea too - ok - going to grab that, dissolve it in Calomile, and give it to him now. It also mentioned giving a tummy massage - so along with a very gentle tummy massage, and follow on with Oxbrow Critical Care as advised by the vet I'm hope it helps...

Everyone in the house is out now and won't be back for a 3 hours. If he doesn't improve, I'll ask them to take me back to the vet, as I am not mobile enough myself at this moment to take him back now and I'd worry - being only skeleton staff that he'd be left in a cage to feed himself. It happened years ago, with a previous bun over the weekend, so I bought her home when I went to visit and nursed her round the clock.

Thanks for all your support!

prettylupin
10-07-2010, 02:41 PM
Prettylupin - Thank you for your response! And thanks to the others too!

The vet said he was very well hydrated - clipped away a little fur and did the skin pinch test. He also said his eye and mouth membranes looked well for hydration in colour. Personally I'm not surprised as he has been drinking so very much more than normal.

I am now worried about the fluid thing... I will syringe feed him fluids hourly now. The vet said he didn't think at this stage it was worth the x-rays and bloodwork, or fluids as he is well hydrated. But from what you say - he could be wrong on that score. Not saying he doesn't know - just that maybe he might not be so well aqauinted with how fast these little fuzzies go downhill.

I found a site that said Simethicone can help - 1ml every 3 hours. Oddly enough I am on the pure Simethicone tablet which I have to crush and dissolve in water for myself - after my surgery, and Calomile tea too - ok - going to grab that, dissolve it in Calomile, and give it to him now. It also mentioned giving a tummy massage - so along with a very gentle tummy massage, and follow on with Oxbrow Critical Care as advised by the vet I'm hope it helps...

Everyone in the house is out now and won't be back for a 3 hours. If he doesn't improve, I'll ask them to take me back to the vet, as I am not mobile enough myself at this moment to take him back now and I'd worry - being only skeleton staff that he'd be left in a cage to feed himself. It happened years ago, with a previous bun over the weekend, so I bought her home when I went to visit and nursed her round the clock.

Thanks for all your support!

I must have missed that sorry. You need to read Jane's post above :wave:

tintin
10-07-2010, 05:46 PM
I can't offer medical help, but just wanted to say how lovely that you have rescued two rabbits. It's great that Lightsa has had a wonderful life with you after such a terrible start to life with his first owners.

parsnipbun
10-07-2010, 05:58 PM
constant digging is often a sign of discomfort - but where from would be up to a vet to find out.

However once in discomfort I suspect he will stop eating so it will snowball

def sounds like discomfort though.

Jinny
10-07-2010, 08:07 PM
UPDATE:

I have given him a couple doses of the Simethicone, and the calomile tea and the Critical Care, and hourly water from a syringe. I also have given him some tummy massages. He is picking at strands of hay. And still drinks himself. I added some water in a dish in addition to his bottle which he is using to drink from instead the bottle.

I fed him while sitting on my bed, as this was easiest for me. He gave out some small, soft but formed, dark droppings, and later some harder, normal sized, with visible bits of tiny hay bits in it. Its still a bit dark though. I'm going to keep on going with the fluids and massages, etc.

He has since settled down a bit - no more aggitated digging. But he still shifts about - but only a little more than usual. I'm still not relaxing though.

The breathing rate hasn't changed - any idea how fast a medium/large rabbit should be breathing??? I touched his ears, they don't feel any hotter than normal. But something isn't right in him.

I rang the vet - it was a different one to who I saw, and she said give it until Monday, unless there is a massive deterioration on Sunday - because the pain meds last 24hours, and it was also an anti-inflammatory and that we should give it a chance to work for now, and to keep doing what I'm doing.

It's going to be a long and worrying weekend, I fear.... why do they always have to pick weekends to get ill!?! :(

prettylupin
10-07-2010, 08:15 PM
UPDATE:

I have given him a couple doses of the Simethicone, and the calomile tea and the Critical Care, and hourly water from a syringe. I also have given him some tummy massages. He is picking at strands of hay. And still drinks himself. I added some water in a dish in addition to his bottle which he is using to drink from instead the bottle.

I fed him while sitting on my bed, as this was easiest for me. He gave out some small, soft but formed, dark droppings, and later some harder, normal sized, with visible bits of tiny hay bits in it. Its still a bit dark though. I'm going to keep on going with the fluids and massages, etc.

He has since settled down a bit - no more aggitated digging. But he still shifts about - but only a little more than usual. I'm still not relaxing though.

The breathing rate hasn't changed - any idea how fast a medium/large rabbit should be breathing??? I touched his ears, they don't feel any hotter than normal. But something isn't right in him.

I rang the vet - it was a different one to who I saw, and she said give it until Monday, unless there is a massive deterioration on Sunday - because the pain meds last 24hours, and it was also an anti-inflammatory and that we should give it a chance to work for now, and to keep doing what I'm doing.

It's going to be a long and worrying weekend, I fear.... why do they always have to pick weekends to get ill!?! :(

If you're lucky and provided they gave a high enough dose at the outset!
If you are concerned about pain tonight or tomorrow then ask for more pain relief in the form of vetergesic/opiates - it can be given as well as a different class of drug and for some buns takes the extra edge off the pain, more so than the NSAID's.

Well done for everything else you are doing - keep going. It will be making a difference. Keep him eating and pooping and it should keep him going x

Hugo's There
10-07-2010, 08:19 PM
I only have a few secs to skim this thread but to me it sounds as though Uroliths (bladder stones) are a possibility. This would cause increased drinking and severe abdominal pain (leading to not eating, restlessness, GI tract hypomotility).

I would press for more diagnostics ASAP.

This was my thinking or bladder sludge

Jinny
12-07-2010, 06:12 PM
UPDATE PART TWO:

Took Lightsa to the vet yet again this morning. He seemed a bit brighter in himself, but I was not happy. He was not doing the aggitated digging thing, but he was snatch feeding - by this I mean, snatching up a blade of hay or whatever, and eating it fast, then hopping on and flopping down again. In terms of passing droppings and urine: He has a touch of diarreoha, and he has blood in his urine and is still drinking lots. I'm thinking like you guys and thinking along the lines of Bladder Stones also - having done a little internet searching on the topic.

The vet (another one this time - my usual is off sick now) examined him and said she could feel nothing in his bladder, but she couldn't hear any gut sounds either which she said worried her. She gave him more Metacam and said keep doing what I'm doing in terms of hourly feeds, even though he is snatch feeding. And hasn't lost any weight over the weekend.

She said she was worried about his breathing that was noisy. It isn't normally, it's just he hates his eyes being covered and squeaks a little when you do, due to past abuse. I offered to hold his head and I sneakily let him open one eye and let him see - he settled a bit after that.

She said as he was a jumpy bunny (he didn't move a whisker - so it was clear she isn't as relaxed with rabbits as she is with cats!) that they would have to knock him out for all the tests which will be done tomorrow. She warned that because of his age (8yrs old) its a huge risk with the anesthesia. She also said his kidneys could be damaged, hence the blood in the urine. This of course, had me in tears all the way home.

So tomorrow morning - my beautiful fluffy boy, will be knocked out, and having 3 abdominal x-rays, blood tests, and a urine analysis. Just the tests are estimated at 440 (which in all my time, I have never known to be anywhere near - it's usually higher)...and they will call me as soon as the x-rays are done to discuss if he needs surgery or if they should just let him go. He has no other lumps or bumps anywhere, and is usually bright and hoppy...but it was the way she said it, that just chilled me and makes me feel physically sick at the thought of losing him, when he seems a bit brighter today. My parents cried for both the rabbit, and the vet fees that they are loaning me - saying how we wished we'd been accepted by any number of the bunny insurance companies we'd approached. God knows how these rescue places do it, on a emotional and a financial level - i have sooo much admiration for them...but it's just got to be done for our loved little ones who always give us so much.

Lightsa is home now and snatch feeding and happily waving his sliced half a card tube in the air, blissfully unaware of what lies ahead. All I can do is hope and pray, it isn't going to be the worst. I know I'm going to make the most of the snuggles of consolement, after the hourly feeding rituals tonight. :(

Jack's-Jane
12-07-2010, 06:42 PM
Poor lad :cry:

I hope everything goes OK tomorrow xx

biscandmatt1
12-07-2010, 06:51 PM
keeping everything crossed for you tomorrow. xxx

Hugo's There
12-07-2010, 07:02 PM
Will be thinking of you all tomorrow, good luck x

Maizey
12-07-2010, 07:59 PM
I have everything crossed for Lightsa tomorrow xxx

Jinny
13-07-2010, 08:43 PM
UPDATE PART THREE:

Lightsa was admitted at 8am this morning, and we were told he would be treated asap, anesthetized and x-rayed in the morning. So by 3.30pm, nerves frazzled, and hearing nothing, I rang. He was going to be looked at next. By 5.30pm no news, and so I called again. The receptionist came back to me and said to come down immediately where a nurse would explain everything, and then she had to go. She wasn't rude at all, but of course I spent the whole car journey bawling my eyes out thinking he was dead.

He wasn't. Thank God! But they must have done him very last on the list, and while he had hay in the travel box, they told me to bring the food seperately and they would give him the Burgess mix in his pen. But as it turned out - I suspect that they didn't give him anything as the bag I provided, was still closed in the same way with the same amount of food in it.

Annnyway - sorry - rant over - important bit follows: They took blood and urine samples and x-rayed him. Kidneys, bowels, bones, lungs, all looked fine. Temperature normal. Breathing rate was fast all day. The bladder was more opaque on the X-ray than normal, but as the anesthetic took effect, and they moved him, his bladder emptied and was thick, smelly, pus thickened, slimy and bloody . They kept on about the smell of it. They shaved his previously fluffy tummy and bathed the rest off him because it was so bad. That was the only thing they found. So they have done tests and we should have them back Thursday. Until then, they advised I keep doing what I'm doing, although I think I will lay off the tummy massages as I am worried about irritating the bladder.

The vet has him on 1.9ml of Baytril once a day, and when I asked if he had pain meds, she said there was some in the anesthesia, and then for a few seconds umm-ed and ahh-ed about whether to give more - I insisted if it wouldn't cause him harm as he was in pain this morning. She went and got a syringe of some painkiller, and injected him and whispered that it was 'on the house'.

We got home, and I took Lightsa out for a cuddle, and immediately noticed how floppy he was. And he still can't stand up due to the anesthesia so I don't think it was done very long ago at all. I puffed up the hay into a valley, and then cut up and sewed quickly together some winter thick sportsocks that I still had sealed as a gift to me, from Christmas. lol. He is now sprawled completely out, on the socks as I thought it was a softer warmer thing to lie his naked tummy on. I'm going to make sure he doesn't chew it - the moment he's up on his feet again I'll take it out. Does anyone know how long anesthesia takes to wear off??? I was just so happy to see him alive I forgot a lot of my aftercare questions! Grrrr! So any tips would be very gratefully received.

Thanks for reading and for all your responses.

rabbitapril
13-07-2010, 09:07 PM
I hope the vets can make Lightsa well again, you obviously love him so much. How is he now? Did they have any idea what was going on with his bladder?

Jinny
14-07-2010, 01:46 AM
Lightsa is still very doped out. He's just laying in his cage, but he has moved a bit on his own. I didn't want to handle him much because he is so floppy and his breathing rate is slowing down a bit from the rapid pumping breaths he had before.

I am afraid to feed him as he is now, because I don't want him to choke on anything... ugh - wish I'd been more with it at the vet's to ask about aftercare. I was just so overwhelmed with having him back.

They have no idea about why his bladder is so infected, but hopefully the sample should tell us a little more. Roll on Thursday...

Jack's-Jane
14-07-2010, 06:38 AM
I cant believe they sent him home in that state :shock:

He should be receiving fluid therapy (IV/subcutaneous) given that he's had a GA whilst in a compromised state due to his bladder infection.

How is he now ?

Has he had a drink and is he passing urine ?

Maizey
14-07-2010, 12:59 PM
How is Lightsa?

Jinny
14-07-2010, 08:32 PM
Lightsa is brighter now - only having perked up again in the last few hours. He can actually sit up again. The vet this morning said just let him rest.

Only he has diarrhea - anyone know what I should do to treat diarrhea?

Results should be back tomorrow, thank goodness!

Ambience
14-07-2010, 08:49 PM
Goodness how traumatic for both you and bunny. I hope that Lightsa recovers well xx ****Sending loads of vibes*******,

Ambience xx

Maizey
14-07-2010, 09:34 PM
Lightsa is brighter now - only having perked up again in the last few hours. He can actually sit up again. The vet this morning said just let him rest.

Only he has diarrhea - anyone know what I should do to treat diarrhea?

Results should be back tomorrow, thank goodness!

Im so glad he has perked up.I hope some one with more knowledge can answer your question about diarrhoea as this is serious for a bunny,if you have an probiotics I would add this to Lightsa water and just give him hey for tonight.If he still has diarrhoea in the morning I would get him to a vet asap as he will need fluids.Sorry for not being much help but Im thinking of you both xxxxx

thumps_
14-07-2010, 10:46 PM
Poor little fella.
I agree with Maizey, that diarrhoea is serious. Is it the ceacal material? & he's producing normal waste poops?
I think that as your own vet is away, he needs urgent referral to an exotics vet & probably a period of admission to stabilise him.
Everything crossed for him.

Jinny
15-07-2010, 12:06 PM
UPDATE PART FOUR:

Hourly feeds of 10mls of Critical Care and 10mls of water, 5mls of calomile tea (which he hates), for the last 3 days and nights, and finally Lightsa - without warning, kicks seven bells out of me with his back legs, and scratches my arms to ribbons! He broke free of my grip and hopped along my bed giving out angry thumps. Then after a few seconds of digging at a corner of my duvet, he spins round, shows me his teeth and suddenly lunges at me and bites me hard, before smuggly sitting back and licking his lips. I am now sporting a rabbit torn sweater, am bleeding from the bite in my side, and am developing a rather attractive bruising shade around it...but I can honestly say that, I couldn't be happier right now! Much to his displeased grunts and growls, I scooped him up and snuggled him hard. He's now ready to pick up and fight to live. I shall wear this wound as a badge of honour! I love bunny temper tantrums right now! :love:

Oh and the important stuff - for now (hopefully forever) the diarrhea has stopped. In the past 2 hours he spent a good deal of time cleaning himself. and making his dull white and biscuit fur, clean and fluffy again. His snatch feeding is slowing down and he is taking a few bits at a time. He refuses, point blank, to sip from his bottle but drinks from his dish, that when he has decided is too low for him in water, he has discovered how he can kick it around and soak his cage. He then banks all the wet hay into a corner and tries to push it out through the bars in between snoozes. I hope this fighting spirit continues. I'm emotionally and mentally shattered, after so little sleep, but I am so happy.

Thank you all for your continuing support.... I am off to get 40mins of sleep before the next feed...

thumps_
15-07-2010, 12:38 PM
:wave: I'm thrilled by his progress, you have done brilliantly.:D
I know what you mean by being on the recieving end of a full blown rabbit tantrum, being a joy when they've been so ill.

I'm delighted that the runny poops have cleared up too. It sounds as though Lightsa has rounded the corner.
Everything crossed for a smooth recovery now, & hopinh that you'll soon get some rest.

Maizey
15-07-2010, 12:48 PM
Im so happy for you and Lightsa,may I suggest getting a heavy clay bowl and maybe putting a stone in it so he cant turn it over

Jinny
19-07-2010, 09:25 PM
The vet just called with the Urine Results.

You guys identified it correctly as Bladder Sludge. His protein is elevated but his kidneys were fine. The vet said it was the worst case of cystitis she'd ever seen and that this means his bladder is damaged, and may have polyps because it is so bad. She also said his white cell count is low because of the infection.

She recommended a bladder flush via catheter under anesthetetic. She said that the procedure is so painful that she has heard rabbits dying under the procedure because of the pain, but obviously they monitor them rigorously during anesthesia. She then said she hadn't done it before, which while I am glad she told me, it has left me more than a little worried - so she will see if another surgeon would be in the room with her, but she didn't know if it were possible. She said the other option was surgical management but didn't go into detail about that. If he survived another anesthetic, then modify diet and so on... but she painted a very bleak picture of him surviving the procedure and the anesthetic.

She then said that if we didn't go ahead with it all then she would recommend euth-ing him by the end of the week to stop any suffering.

Then she broke the financial estimate which would obviously have to be paid whether he lived or died.

I feel just awfully dreadfully guilty, over not working out the nutritional value in his feed, and terrible over my own lack of finances to handle this. What a mess..... and all I want is him to be ok and happy again.

Thanks for your advice and the links! Can't tell you how much I appreciate it all!

Maizey
19-07-2010, 09:44 PM
Sounds like you have a very truthful vet.Please dont feel guilty as Lightsa has got to this grand old age with your love and care.I think this procedure is pretty straight forward if the vet knows what they are doing and your vet wants an experienced surgeon with her.Sending massive healing vibes your beautiful boys way xxxx

rabbitapril
19-07-2010, 10:28 PM
My bunny has had his bladder flushed twice and he was fine afterwards, though it was done by an experienced vet. I would think it would be a similar procedure that is done to a cat.
How is Lightsa feeling, is he moving about and eating?
Sorry i cant give you any advice but i am sending lots of vibes.
PS. i am being nosey but did she give you a price for a bladder flush?

thumps_
20-07-2010, 03:27 AM
Please don't be so hard on yourself, you've done brilliantly to get Lightsa through that stasis. i truely mean that.

I know of several buns who have their bladder flushed regularly.

My own bun gets sludge but manages to pass it himself, although it's obviously painful. He just doesn't drink enough. http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=198469&highlight=buck+urination is our story, with some very hepful advice. The tip of a teaspoon of Avipro plus used as a non sugary flavouring helped a lot.

Alot can be done to help with diet. The principals are to reduce calcium & oxalate intake & increase fluid intake.
This link describes the fundamental problems & gives 2 case histories.
http://www.ontariorabbits.org/health/healthinfo4.1.html

Using herbs, wetting the veg, a small amount of cucumber, & I use the weeds that wild buns eat. Sow thistles are amazing for controling sludge. Fresh leaves eg. bramble, hawthorn, apple, & the weed greater plantain all give moist fiber. Hay can be aerosol sprayed with water provided it is changed daily.

I note that Lightsa is also stasis prone, so I'd try to get his diet rightwithout recourse to too much starch/sugar.
If you want me to send you some sow thistle seeds please pm me.
(Sorry I can't find the linkto low calcium/oxalate veg at the mo.)