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Help- Cookie

rachylou

rachylou

Warren Veteran
Oh dear, just had a call from Christine who has said that Cookie has started building a nest!!
Christine was told Cookie was spayed but obviously now has doubts about that.
She is going to the vets on Thursday to be opened up and checked, if she is not spayed they will do it there and then.
We will now not be collecting her till the 17th, so 9 days post spay.
Obviously we have NO experience with doe's at all,

What should we expect and what sort of care will she need?
How long should we wait before starting the bond?
How long does it take for hormoans to settle after the op?
 
Hi Rachel

First thing to say is that any rabbit can nest build; it doesn't mean that they are pregnant or even female.

Secondly, why did Christine tell you she was neutered if she doesn't know for a fact that she is? If she was handed in as a stray you could forgive a person for assuming that she wasn't and get her done asap if healthy. If she was told by the person handing her in that she was spayed then she should be able to get proof.

It seems such a shame to open a rabbit up just to find out. If she is nest building because she is pregnant then a good vet should be able to feel babies by now as they have had her at the rescue for over two weeks so the babies should be fairly noticeable.

If they can't feel her babies, and they have no proof that she is neutered then I could understand them wanting to neuter. To open her up now if she is pregnant would mean aborting possibly a viable litter as it will be at least three weeks since she arrived at the rescue.

Post spay, you won't be able to bond her for approx 4-6 weeks as her hormones will still be active. Having her at home in your flat may unsettle Jimby if she still has hormones raging (especially if she is nest building).

She shouldn't be allowed to go home until she is shown to be fit and healthy post spay, so you shouldn't have to do anything out of the ordinary. Hopefully if they do end up opening her up, the wound will heal quickly and it won't be a cause for any extra care required, although you will need to be able to check it for infection/healing.

Also, you won't want to be vaccinating her with the second vaccine until she is recovered and eating well etc especially if the one you are going to do is VHD, which can make the bunny feel unwell anyway.

Helen
 
I'd give her another week after you get her home, to settle in and to allow her hormones to calm down. This is a good time to get them used to eachothers scent and after a few days Id let them see eachother through the bars of her enclosure. I think doing this with my Timmy and Mimi allowed them to get used to eachother abit before I actually started the bonding, so they weren't complete strangers to eachother and bonded quite easily :wave:
 
Gemmapookie said:
I'd give her another week after you get her home, to settle in and to allow her hormones to calm down. This is a good time to get them used to eachothers scent and after a few days Id let them see eachother through the bars of her enclosure. I think doing this with my Timmy and Mimi allowed them to get used to eachother abit before I actually started the bonding, so they weren't complete strangers to eachother and bonded quite easily :wave:
Click to expand...

I think that that would be too early.
 
Yeh i think you're probably right actually Duchess, although it was my vet that told me the hormones would be down significantly enough after 2 weeks :roll:

I suppose it depends on the individual bun aswell, if shes very hormonal you may want to leave it even longer. Best to ask Chistine as she will have gotten to know Cookies personality :) xxx
 
The Duchess said:
Hi Rachel

First thing to say is that any rabbit can nest build; it doesn't mean that they are pregnant or even female.

Secondly, why did Christine tell you she was neutered if she doesn't know for a fact that she is? If she was handed in as a stray you could forgive a person for assuming that she wasn't and get her done asap if healthy. If she was told by the person handing her in that she was spayed then she should be able to get proof.

It seems such a shame to open a rabbit up just to find out. If she is nest building because she is pregnant then a good vet should be able to feel babies by now as they have had her at the rescue for over two weeks so the babies should be fairly noticeable.

If they can't feel her babies, and they have no proof that she is neutered then I could understand them wanting to neuter. To open her up now if she is pregnant would mean aborting possibly a viable litter as it will be at least three weeks since she arrived at the rescue.

Post spay, you won't be able to bond her for approx 4-6 weeks as her hormones will still be active. Having her at home in your flat may unsettle Jimby if she still has hormones raging (especially if she is nest building).

She shouldn't be allowed to go home until she is shown to be fit and healthy post spay, so you shouldn't have to do anything out of the ordinary. Hopefully if they do end up opening her up, the wound will heal quickly and it won't be a cause for any extra care required, although you will need to be able to check it for infection/healing.

Also, you won't want to be vaccinating her with the second vaccine until she is recovered and eating well etc especially if the one you are going to do is VHD, which can make the bunny feel unwell anyway.

Helen
Click to expand...


Is it cruel to abort them if she is pregnant? Or is it crueler to let her have them?
She had her Myxi jab so I am assuming she went to the vets to have that done or was at least seen by a vet?
We were planning to keep her in the bedroom and not let Jims in there, so would that still be ok?
Christine said that she wants to keep her for a week post op to make sure she is ok and if all is well we can pick her up that Saturday.
Christine was told by the person who brought her in said she was spayed but they could not remember the vets when she called them today! :?
What should we do Helen? :cry:
 
I personally would not want to relocate and move a rabbit until a minimum of 2 weeks after any sort of illness, let alone a spay. Changing and moving to a new home with new smells is very stressful on the immune system and I think 9 days post-spay is way too soon to put her through that, whatever space issues a rescue has.

Female hormones continue to drop off for up to 9 months in fact, so again, don't rush it. I'm not saying wait 9 months! :shock: But I think certainly as The Duchess has said that 4-6 wks should be a minimum before even thinking of bonding.
 
I think you might want to just have a think about where this might go now. Whilst I think it terribly unlikely that she is neutered (I can't see how someone forgets which vet did this), she may well be as I know of neutered rabbits that have nest built.

If she isn't neutered and is pregnant, then I would say that most vets would not spay as the phoetus would be viable. Our vet would only do it if the doe has only just been 'mated' and he can not feel anything.

If she isn't pregnant and they do spay her, then you will no longer be able to bond her immediately and you will then be looking to have her at yours for the next 4-6 weeks minimum at your cost, getting more and more attached to her. What happens if they don't bond? Would you be able to give her up? Will Christine still have her back if it's a month down the line? I think if the answer is yes, you are happy to keep her regardless if Christine wouldn't have her back, then you could go through with the adoption.

All of the time she is at yours of course Rachael, she will be settling in and it will no longer be neutral for either of them, which might make things a little more tricky with the bonding. I think having her in the bedroom might help to make things better but she will still recognise all of the smells in the flat as being home (smells in the air more than on furnishings) and of course sounds too.

I also agree with Pretty Lupin that moving a bunny about until she is fully recovered is not an ideal situation and should be avoided if possible - maybe wait for a couple of weeks rather than 9 days. That way, if anything isn't quite right with her recovery, you don't end up having to have vet visits etc.

I must sound quite detached here as I know you have fallen for Cookie. Thing is, I haven't and can be subjective. I'd just think about what it means for you and Jimby and if you feel it's still okay, then go ahead and adopt her.
 
The Duchess said:
I think you might want to just have a think about where this might go now. Whilst I think it terribly unlikely that she is neutered (I can't see how someone forgets which vet did this), she may well be as I know of neutered rabbits that have nest built.

If she isn't neutered and is pregnant, then I would say that most vets would not spay as the phoetus would be viable. Our vet would only do it if the doe has only just been 'mated' and he can not feel anything.

If she isn't pregnant and they do spay her, then you will no longer be able to bond her immediately and you will then be looking to have her at yours for the next 4-6 weeks minimum at your cost, getting more and more attached to her. What happens if they don't bond? Would you be able to give her up? Will Christine still have her back if it's a month down the line? I think if the answer is yes, you are happy to keep her regardless if Christine wouldn't have her back, then you could go through with the adoption.

All of the time she is at yours of course Rachael, she will be settling in and it will no longer be neutral for either of them, which might make things a little more tricky with the bonding. I think having her in the bedroom might help to make things better but she will still recognise all of the smells in the flat as being home (smells in the air more than on furnishings) and of course sounds too.

I also agree with Pretty Lupin that moving a bunny about until she is fully recovered is not an ideal situation and should be avoided if possible - maybe wait for a couple of weeks rather than 9 days. That way, if anything isn't quite right with her recovery, you don't end up having to have vet visits etc.

I must sound quite detached here as I know you have fallen for Cookie. Thing is, I haven't and can be subjective. I'd just think about what it means for you and Jimby and if you feel it's still okay, then go ahead and adopt her.
Click to expand...

:cry: I feel like we would be letting her down if we do not take her in, but at the same time, I do think that I would get too attached to her in the weeks she would be in the bedroom and then I would not be able to give her back, we do not have the space for 2 permanent seperate cages.

Ihate the thought of her going through all of this for us not to take her in. :cry: But I guess Christine would do it any way even if we were not going to get her?

I think we are going to have to ask Christine if she would be willing to keep Cookie for at least 2 weeks post op? If she is unwilling to then I think for our sake we may be best to pull out now. :cry:

We did see a cute bunny called Lacey in pets at home to be rehomed, I do not know her age but she is a dwarf lop, sort of caramel colour, she was SLIGHTLY overweight by the looks of it, she had a very slight dewlap, but am I right in saying if that is the only thing to fix so to speak is not a problem?
 
I'd have to say that going down the bunny in Pet's at Home route may not be straightforward either.

Bunnies with a dewlap normally have them for one of two reasons - they haven't been spayed or they were spayed late in life, or, their diet has been wrong and they areor have been overweight.

In itself it may not pose too many problems but it may be a clue to some other issues - if it's diet related, then it could be that her teeth will be less than great, even if you can't see issues now, you may have underlying tooth root problems in the future. If she can't reach her anus then she may end up with a sticky bum. Even if her diet is good from here on in, you may still have problems. It would depend on the cause and the size of the dewlap.

Why is the bunny in Pets at Home?

Basically, you can never be 100% sure with ANY rabbit, so you will have to consider all the possibililties.

I would possibly ask Christine if she would be sure to take her back if the bonding doesn't work and if she says yes, then maybe go for Cookie.
 
But then we would have to keep her completly seperate to Jims for at least a month, we do not really have the space in the bedroom for such an imposition, we were only planning on having Cookie in the bedroom for a week- 2 at the most!
Having her in the bedroom for a month, I know I would get extremely attached to her then what if the bonding does not work :cry:
I am already so sad at the thought of not being able to have her and I have only met her once!

In regards to the pets at home bun, I dont know any details about her so would have to ask, but she did not look fat, just a little on the chubby side, bit like me :lol:
 
Ok so spoke to the vets today we have been advised to wait as long as possible before bonding them, so we will be getting Cookie in 8 days, we will keep her in the bedroom for 2 weeks without any contact with Jims.
Then we will move her in to the lounge on the 1st at the opposite end of the room for a few days, then move her cage next to Jims for a few days then start the bonding so the time in between will probably be around 5 weeks.
 
rachylou said:
Ok so spoke to the vets today we have been advised to wait as long as possible before bonding them, so we will be getting Cookie in 8 days, we will keep her in the bedroom for 2 weeks without any contact with Jims.
Then we will move her in to the lounge on the 1st at the opposite end of the room for a few days, then move her cage next to Jims for a few days then start the bonding so the time in between will probably be around 5 weeks.
Click to expand...

Well in that case you are going to need to prepare yourself for a post-operative rabbit going into stasis and be prepared for this. A spay followed by moving to a new home is a hell of a lot of stress for Cookie in a very short space of time. I'm not saying it can't be done but you will need to make sure you are prepared for all eventualties. I'm not saying she will get stasis - but it IS a possibility so you will have to acutely monitor her for any signs of stress or gut slowdown. Hopefully she will be fine . :)
 
Ok, so turns out little Cookie was not spayed! She had her op yesterday and it all went well, bless her. Luckily she was not pregnant!
 
rachylou said:
Ok, so turns out little Cookie was not spayed! She had her op yesterday and it all went well, bless her. Luckily she was not pregnant!
Click to expand...

Thank goodness Rachael. It does explain her nest building.

The only thing is that she is obviously mature and it will take a good while longer for her hormones to subside as opposed to a bunny done earlier, prior to displaying real hormonal behaviour.

I do hope that in future the rescue will ensure that the buns are neutered rather than accepting that they are when they take them in. Had you already got her and tried bonding her, you could have had a bit of a shock with her having her hormones and the resulting reaction to a boy in her face!

I don't accept people's word when they say their buns coming into rescue are neutered - I want to see proof. It safeguards me and the folks who go on to adopt the rabbit.
 
Yes thank goodness we did not agree to take her on that same week!! We would have had a hell of a time!
I am just glad that this is sorted now and obviously for her long term health it is for the best, we do not want her to go on to get uterine cancer.
Yep we are planning on keeping her in our bedroom for a good 3- 4 weeks before even moving her in to the lounge, so it gives her time to a) settle in b) allow us to adapt her diet c) Let her get used to us d) Allow us to get to know her and her ways.
 
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