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Am I being cruel?

I've just got off the phone to my mum. She was telling me she was at a Game&Country Fair at the weekend and got talking to a man who judges and shows rabbits (she thinks Rexes and Foxes) . She was telling him all about my four, and how much I love them, their bunny mansion etc and then got round to telling him about how they were dental buns and how I need to get their teeth burred etc.
He asked if I had anyone to talk to about what I'm doing regarding the burring other than the vet and she said yes, she has bunny friends on a forum. He said oh good, because he was going to give my mum his number for me to talk to him about it as I could be causing my buns pain unintentionally!! :shock:
He told her that the older a rabbit gets the nearer the teeth nerves get to the surface and all the burring will be leaving them in constant pain because of exposing the nerves ... mum had mentioned Barnaby's occasionally weep eye and he said yes, that's a symptom of a bunny in pain and that no matter what the vet says I should consider PTS because the vet will just prolong the pain because they can get money out of me for the burring.
Now i'm really upset :cry::cry:
I get three of the the Four Amigos' teeth burred every 6 to 8 weeks and Barnaby needed it doing last time (and when I asked their opinion on ETR because of his eye they said it was more likely an infected tear duct), three of them are 4 years old and Bingley is 5 so now I'm worried with their ages and the amount of burring they have done that i'm really cruel and they're in constant pain. They seem happy and healthy enough and though they don't eat their hay they eat all the rest of their food, veg and things but I have noticed tbey don't binky half as much as they did a couple of years ago.
Is he right? He's a really well respected breeder, rabbit shower and judge and all his rabbits are kept to an excellent standard so he isn't a fly by night breeder.
I'm really devastated :oops: sorry for such a long post but I really would like someone else's opinion on this. i'd rather cut my own arm off than cause any unnecessary suffering to my babies :cry::cry::cry:
 
I wouldn't believe a word he has said over my vets, as if he 'a show breeder' will care more about animals than your vets - vets are there to make money but, I find it hard to believe that they would cause pain or suffering to do that. I am just saying what I think, if your in doubt discuss it with your vet the next time that you go there. Do your rabbits eat a lot of hay?
 
:shock::shock: im sure you would know if they was in pain, bunnies in pain refuse food and sit hunched up... that bloke clearly thinks its wrong to invest time money and effort into a pet and would rather PTS

do not let him upset you xxxxx
 
He is talking rubbish about weepy eyes being a sign of pain. Rather it is a sign that there are problems with the tooth roots pressing on the tear ducts. Not good but no reason to kill the rabbits.

If your rabbits were in pain they would go off their food. Please don't worry. As a breeder he would not keep a rabbit alive that had teeth problems. It would be no use for breeding or showing. As long as yours look happy, they are happy, a lot happier than his are kept only to be used for breeding and showing. I bet his don't live in a hutch that is remotely big enough, even if he is not as bad as many breeders are. Being well repsected by other breeders/ show people means nothing as to his credentials when it comes to welfare.

Even if burring does cause then a bit of pain or discomfort it doesn't mean their lives are not worth living. I'm in constant pain but it doesn't mean I don't want to live. When you look at quality of life you need to weigh up the whole picture not just one little piece. Your rabbits have companionship, space and care for their own sake instead of just for what they can do for your reputation.
 
You are NOT being cruel, absolutely NOT. Like others have said he'd have a bun pts in that situation because it would be no use to him :censored:
You'd know if your buns were in pain or unhappy. You're a great bunny mummy, his buns would be oh so lucky to be with you instead of him ;):love:
 
Vets do like making money but they also value their patients and do try their best. I am sure of that. Plus if they have an unhappy owner, they are more likely to lose money than gain. Word of mouth spreads very quickly.

I do not believe you are doing the wrong thing. To be honest, I would listen to a qualified vet (particularly one that specialises in small animals) over a breeder any day. And you know your bunnies, you would know if they were seriously unhappy. Don't doubt yourself, your buns couldn't ask for a better owner!
 
He's talking out of his :oops: but backside! Take no notice at all.

Yes dental problems are life-long but with a good vet, correct burring techniques, any necessary anaesthesia for molar work and appropriate pain relief it's a much better quality of life than no life at all. Burring actually reduces the pressure of growth on the tooth roots so if there is tooth root elongation causing the nasal cavity to become squashed and the lacrimal duct not to drain properly - weepy eye for dental buns - then the burring should be helping to correct this in the long term.
:)
 
the breeder is talking out his ****! you know your buns best. buns in pain do refuse to eat and sit haunched up, you'd know if they were in pain! :wave::wave::wave:
 
I wouldn't believe a word he has said over my vets, as if he 'a show breeder' will care more about animals than your vets - vets are there to make money but, I find it hard to believe that they would cause pain or suffering to do that. I am just saying what I think, if your in doubt discuss it with your vet the next time that you go there. Do your rabbits eat a lot of hay?

thats unfair he has nothing to gain from his advice the vet has everything after all they are a buisness and are there to make money !!
i once asked 2 different vets practices when on work experiance years ago why do you do this all the time to the bunnies does it really help i was told by one no not really it has to be done often to allow them to eat but at the end of the day its regular money and makes the owner think they are doing a good thing :?
the other one said it was regular money but imagine having your teeth done every few weeks its not nice :?
the guy is right in many ways i dont agree with all this dental work on rabbits it caused by bad breeding mainly from back yard breeders who just want money and dont care about what they are doing
if i had a bunny that had dental problems i would personally have it pts mainly because hes right it has to be painfull and stressfull imagine having you teeth drilled to the nerve regularley imagine that pain some rabbits are on long term meds for pain as they have it done every few weeks i dont like it but at the end of the day its up to the owner and if they are happy and confident their rabbit is happy then they feel they are fine otherwise well they should do what they feel is right
after all like people all rabbits are different ;)
Bun-Mum-Tammy
you know your rabbits better than anyone and do the best by them you would know if they are not happy, if you want to talk to him see what he has to say it was good of him to offer as i said he has nothing to gain if he didnt give his number if you have a name and want to speak to him i can try get you the number :)
if you want to chat im always about ;)
ann xxx
 
The breeder has got his facts a bit wrong...

The tooth nerves don't get nearer the surface of the tooth as the rabbit gets older, the roots actually grow into the gum, which is what causes runny eyes.

Plenty of animals need life-long dental work, including other herbivores such as horses...nobody would suggest putting a horse to sleep because of a few spurs because they are valuable animals and expensive to replace.

Unfortunately the mind-set of most rabbit breeders is that a rabbit isn't worth investing money into (especially if they are a less than perfect specimen)...so take the cheapest option of PTS :cry:
 
The breeder has got his facts a bit wrong...

The tooth nerves don't get nearer the surface of the tooth as the rabbit gets older, the roots actually grow into the gum, which is what causes runny eyes.

Plenty of animals need life-long dental work, including other herbivores such as horses...nobody would suggest putting a horse to sleep because of a few spurs because they are valuable animals and expensive to replace.

Unfortunately the mind-set of most rabbit breeders is that a rabbit isn't worth investing money into (especially if they are a less than perfect specimen)...so take the cheapest option of PTS :cry:

.....and here speaks someone who loves her rabbits and has dealt with many dental buns and ensured they have/had a great life.

To the Original poster, if you want some GOOD advice, please speak to the members on here who deal with dental buns day in and day out.
 
if i had a bunny that had dental problems i would personally have it pts mainly because hes right it has to be painfull and stressfull imagine having you teeth drilled to the nerve regularley imagine that pain some rabbits are on long term meds for pain as they have it done every few weeks

Drilling? Do you actually KNOW anything about rabbit dentistry? :? :roll:
 
thats unfair he has nothing to gain from his advice the vet has everything after all they are a buisness and are there to make money !!
i once asked 2 different vets practices when on work experiance years ago why do you do this all the time to the bunnies does it really help i was told by one no not really it has to be done often to allow them to eat but at the end of the day its regular money and makes the owner think they are doing a good thing :?
the other one said it was regular money but imagine having your teeth done every few weeks its not nice :?
the guy is right in many ways i dont agree with all this dental work on rabbits it caused by bad breeding mainly from back yard breeders who just want money and dont care about what they are doing
if i had a bunny that had dental problems i would personally have it pts mainly because hes right it has to be painfull and stressfull imagine having you teeth drilled to the nerve regularley imagine that pain some rabbits are on long term meds for pain as they have it done every few weeks i dont like it but at the end of the day its up to the owner and if they are happy and confident their rabbit is happy then they feel they are fine otherwise well they should do what they feel is right
after all like people all rabbits are different ;)
Bun-Mum-Tammy
you know your rabbits better than anyone and do the best by them you would know if they are not happy, if you want to talk to him see what he has to say it was good of him to offer as i said he has nothing to gain if he didnt give his number if you have a name and want to speak to him i can try get you the number :)
if you want to chat im always about ;)
ann xxx

Are you saying that if you had a bun with incisor problems that you would also pts, despite the fact that the incisors can be removed with an op and the rabbit can go on and live a happy, healthy life??
 
.....and here speaks someone who loves her rabbits and has dealt with many dental buns and ensured they have/had a great life.

Cheers Laura :)

I know my dental buns are happy.

I can completely understand why somebody might not want to treat severe dental disease...but the odd molar spur is such a minor thing that I'd consider PTS for minor spurs to be bordering on animal cruelty.
 
Cheers Laura :)

I know my dental buns are happy.

I can completely understand why somebody might not want to treat severe dental disease...but the odd molar spur is such a minor thing that I'd consider PTS for minor spurs to be bordering on animal cruelty.

I only speak the truth Amy. I know what you do for your buns and it's admirable :) x
 
I didn't see Jazzywoo's post while I was writing, so I guess this is a direct contradiction to her position.

A few months ago my bunny savvy vet was invited to attend a rabbit show by the organising committee. He accepted the invitation with the intention of talking to people mostly about nutrition and dental health. He told me that the only people he managed to talk to were those who were like us, carers. The breeders in attendance shunned him as though he had the plague. The main problem was he was promoting Oxbow products which the breeders wont use because of the extra expense, they use and recommend bags of dubious mix available in supermarkets.

I did speak to a registered breeder on one occasion who told me he never took any of his rabbits to a vet because "he knew more about rabbits than any vet". At the time I had my male lop with me on my way into a vet appointment to have his incisors burred. He was about 6 at this time and had been a dental bun for 4 years so I asked this breeder how he would treat the condition and was told to "just cut them with clippers". I then asked him how he would treat his molar spurs and he told me that as soon as they were detected he "should have been culled". This little lop lived until he was almost 9 years old, 7 of those years as a dental bun and although he probably experienced pain at times due to his teeth he was as happy a bunny as you could ever wish to have in your care. Had I been so stupid as to listen to a breeder I and he would have been deprived of 7 years of a fruitful and loving relationship.
 
I didn't see Jazzywoo's post while I was writing, so I guess this is a direct contradiction to her position.

A few months ago my bunny savvy vet was invited to attend a rabbit show by the organising committee. He accepted the invitation with the intention of talking to people mostly about nutrition and dental health. He told me that the only people he managed to talk to were those who were like us, carers. The breeders in attendance shunned him as though he had the plague. The main problem was he was promoting Oxbow products which the breeders wont use because of the extra expense, they use and recommend bags of dubious mix available in supermarkets.

I did speak to a registered breeder on one occasion who told me he never took any of his rabbits to a vet because "he knew more about rabbits than any vet". At the time I had my male lop with me on my way into a vet appointment to have his incisors burred. He was about 6 at this time and had been a dental bun for 4 years so I asked this breeder how he would treat the condition and was told to "just cut them with clippers". I then asked him how he would treat his molar spurs and he told me that as soon as they were detected he "should have been culled". This little lop lived until he was almost 9 years old, 7 of those years as a dental bun and although he probably experienced pain at times due to his teeth he was as happy a bunny as you could ever wish to have in your care. Had I been so stupid as to listen to a breeder I and he would have been deprived of 7 years of a fruitful and loving relationship.
front teeth that need cliping thats different there are no nerves in them and they continually grow some bunnies which pull them out of place do need them relining i have had a bunny that has needed this done it the back teeth i believe in putting them under ga every few weeks to have this done where i know human deistry is different to rabbits im not stupid im saying just imagine what it would be like for you as a example
im so sorry you met a breeder like that its enough to put anyone of people who breed and show were are not all like that i promise you we take ours to the vets when required and we dont cull for the sake of it as he put it ;)
i do hate people like that who make us good breeders look bad
ann xx
 
In general Pet Rabbit owners will fund ongoing Dental treatment, breeders wont as the Rabbit is of no use to them.

To try to dress this up as it being in the Rabbits best interests is a load of tosh.
 
In general Pet Rabbit owners will fund ongoing Dental treatment, breeders wont as the Rabbit is of no use to them.

To try to dress this up as it being in the Rabbits best interests is a load of tosh.

Same as the arguments breeders use against vaccinating, neutering, bonding, big hutches etc etc the amount of tosh that breeders make up to excuse the way they keep animals is astounding!
 
In general Pet Rabbit owners will fund ongoing Dental treatment, breeders wont as the Rabbit is of no use to them.

To try to dress this up as it being in the Rabbits best interests is a load of tosh.

its really scary how money can be more important than little lives isnt it :cry::cry:
 
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