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Loads of Baytril- Possible Pasturella outbreak *sighs*.

A

Ambience

Warren Veteran
I took sunny to the vet the other day only to find his teeth fell out when they were using the drill to cut them down. He has since been eating okay and is on tiacil for his eyes.

When i went to the vets again , another vet has given me baytril instead of tiacil for patch and blaze who also have the exact same problem. He did talk about doing some culture tests but said it's best to give the baytril first.

I'm abit worried as currently this outbreak is contained to one shed, but i'm hoping that when i've had bunnys on the same grass i haven't cross contaminated the land with pasturella, as this does tend to survive well. I have one bunny with pasturella indoors that sneezes, but never has runny eyes, just discharge from the nose and heavy breathing.

The boys don't have heavy breathing and this vet didn't even check there chests, like what they normally do. He also wouldn't give me tiacil as he said it's probably an infection in the body and there is no point treating just the eyes if it is pasturella. Seems a strange way to go on treating this. Although they didn't really respond well to terramycin which they were on for awhile and fusalmic vet before that.

I'm worried that my other bunnys may have contracted this now :( In terms of land- how far away should i house pasturella infected buns that are outdoors from my none infected bunnies ? I currently use different cleaning equipment for the poorly buns to the ones that are okay, so hopefully they wont have cross-contaminated. I am worried about if they have picked it up from the grass as i do move the runs and let different bunnys go on different areas of grass.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thankyou ,
Ambience x
 
All bunnies naturally carry pasteurella bacteria, it causes flare ups it if gets out of control e.g. if the bun's immune system is depressed. So although it's not a great idea to let them all sneeze over each other, with general good hygiene it wouldn't be my first worry. I have a snuffly bun who has been living with a non-snuffly bun for several years and the other has never so much as sneezed once.

I would be much more inclined to think that the infected eyes is a symptom of something else such as tooth root overgrowth. Has this ever been checked (via x-ray)? Are the rabbits with these eye problems related? Other things to think about might be whether there is anything in the shed that is causing their eyes to get irritated - storage of chemicals, type of bedding being used (e.g. wood shavings/sawdust), disinfectant being used for cleaning out, frequency of cleaning out etc. Especially in a shed which has lower ventilation than outdoors there could be something building up which is causing some irritation.

Hope you manage to get to the bottom of it :)
 
Yes they are related. Not sure how that would effect things. I have looked at the eyes and there seems to be abit of eye flesh that seems to overhang. Perhaps it's mis-shaped eyes or something. I don't think the vets were very through in there investigations to be honest.

Sunny seems 100% improved on baytril. Hopefully he will be okay when he is off it, patch and blaze still struggling abit. Lucy and shadow, i can't really tell as i think that the others groom any runny eye discharge, before i can see it. I think i've only had minor indictions that it may be something serious, but it still concerns me.

My vet told me sunnys teeth were okay the other day, then a few weeks later, told me they were rotten and they fell out when they used the drill to cut his teeth down as they were growing out of alignment, maybe due to him not eating hay for along while, which the vet has been made aware of.

No tests or xrays have ever been done, the vets are speculating then prescribing stuff. I noticed they didn't give me protexin this time with the baytril, but want them on 0.4 ml twice daily, which seems odd, especially since bunnies don't handle antibitotics well.

Could be bedding, i've had them on alot of hay and i think it could be irritating. I've also had them on shavings in the past, i now use megazorb. Although vet has said just use newspaper and towels. I am now going to do towels and wash them daily with newspaper for little trays and see if that helps. Also will change to vinegar as this seems to be what is the most loved cleaning product on here for bunnies and i have been using quite strong disinfectants, including detol, trigene, other bunny cleaning products, all of which are possibly an irritant.


I think it could be teeth problems. I know my vet said something that disturbed me. Oh he does have slight spurs, but nothing to be concerned about. I think something along these lines. The vet was foreign and i left it at that as he didn't seem to understand me and i wasn't getting what i wanted to get across to him, which was that i didn't think that baytril was the answer for treating and eye problem, when the previous vet prescribed tiacil for my other bunny and both blaze and patch had the same thing as sunny.

If my bunny has spurs, can someone explain, what does that mean, should i be concerned. Thanks alot,

Ambience x
 
Ambience said:
Yes they are related. Not sure how that would effect things. I have looked at the eyes and there seems to be abit of eye flesh that seems to overhang. Perhaps it's mis-shaped eyes or something. I don't think the vets were very through in there investigations to be honest.

Sunny seems 100% improved on baytril. Hopefully he will be okay when he is off it, patch and blaze still struggling abit. Lucy and shadow, i can't really tell as i think that the others groom any runny eye discharge, before i can see it. I think i've only had minor indictions that it may be something serious, but it still concerns me.

My vet told me sunnys teeth were okay the other day, then a few weeks later, told me they were rotten and they fell out when they used the drill to cut his teeth down as they were growing out of alignment, maybe due to him not eating hay for along while, which the vet has been made aware of.

No tests or xrays have ever been done, the vets are speculating then prescribing stuff. I noticed they didn't give me protexin this time with the baytril, but want them on 0.4 ml twice daily, which seems odd, especially since bunnies don't handle antibitotics well.

Could be bedding, i've had them on alot of hay and i think it could be irritating. I've also had them on shavings in the past, i now use megazorb. Although vet has said just use newspaper and towels. I am now going to do towels and wash them daily with newspaper for little trays and see if that helps. Also will change to vinegar as this seems to be what is the most loved cleaning product on here for bunnies and i have been using quite strong disinfectants, including detol, trigene, other bunny cleaning products, all of which are possibly an irritant.


I think it could be teeth problems. I know my vet said something that disturbed me. Oh he does have slight spurs, but nothing to be concerned about. I think something along these lines. The vet was foreign and i left it at that as he didn't seem to understand me and i wasn't getting what i wanted to get across to him, which was that i didn't think that baytril was the answer for treating and eye problem, when the previous vet prescribed tiacil for my other bunny and both blaze and patch had the same thing as sunny.

If my bunny has spurs, can someone explain, what does that mean, should i be concerned. Thanks alot,

Ambience x
Click to expand...


IMO these Rabbits need more thorough diagnostics. I think it highly likely that the eye infections are a SECONDARY SYMPTOM of Dental Disease. I suspect that the tooth ROOTS (ie the part that cannot be seen without skull radiographs) are elongated. This can lead to the roots pressing on the nasolacrimal ducts causing chronic dacryocystitis (runny eyes) and infection.

Personally I would consider seeking a second opinion from a Vet more experienced in treating Dental problems in Rabbits. If Dental Disease is diagnosed it will require lifelong management-regular Dentals under GA etc....

As all the Rabbits are related it is likely that the Dental problems are congenital and NONE of the Rabbits should be used for breeding.
 
Thanks Jacks- Jane,

I'll ask the vet if they can look into tooth root problems. I think you are right on that front.

What would the dentals under general be for? I currently have one with mallocursion who is done without ga.

Ambience x
 
Ambience said:
What would the dentals under general be for? I currently have one with mallocursion who is done without ga.
Click to expand...

Tooth root overgrowth is less actual root overgrowth and more the tooth itself pushing upwards or downwards into the gum and subsequently into the jawbone/nasal cavity etc. Dentals without GA simply take any protruding spikes off the teeth. A dental with a GA can be used to take the teeth right back down to just above the gum line. Apart from helping to return the teeth to their normal occlusion which a superficial dental may not, this height reduction also reduces the pressure on the teeth and slows down the rate at which they push backwards into the gum.

Does that make sense?
 
Yes it does. Thanks for the information. I had no idea and i wouldn't have had the first clue to ask the vet. They are usually vet good, but i'm abit concerned lately with these problems not being addressed. The vets looked at the teeth said they are okay in some bunnies, one had molar spurs, but didn't recommend anything to be done. Said they are okay. Is this normal?

Sounds painful santa, I'd be crying if that was happening to my teeth. I'll keep taking them back until i get a result with them. This has been ongoing for over a year now with no real progress.

Ambience x
 
Funnily enough it doesn't seem to be painful :? If anything it seems to be a relief - maybe it relieves any pressure/pain for a while. Santa is certainly always awake and crashing around in a temper soon after it's done, and eating normally by the time she gets home. But then she is on metacam all the time to reduce the nasal inflammation so maybe it's a bit different for her, I don't know :?

If it is tooth root overgrowth (maybe worth getting them to do an x-ray when they knock the bun out for a dental), it's not reversible so any problems with weepy eyes may be ongoing if the roots are pushing into the tear duct, but it can at least be slowed down and more easily managed.

I guess every bun and every situation is different and vets have to take a pragmatic approach to seeing what they can manage without detailed diagnostics, so it's bound to vary a bit. Ideally I'd try and find a vet who is good with bunnies and try and ask to see them all the time even if it's a multi-vet practice. I find that it's far easier to build up a relationship with one vet then you get to a level of mutual trust and understanding of how you like to deal with your pets and how you like them to approach diagnostics and treatment. Good luck x
 
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