Round and round in circles.

Morals and ethics.

Morals and ethics.

What's best for her?

What's the right thing to do?

Its doing my head in :lol:

The current situation is Rosie and her kidney. She's been on 3 drops of Metacam since she arrived in November. We've tried to reduce that further, but she always gets a wet butt. I think this is due to the inflammation in her spine getting worse and worsening her bladder issues.

Since finding out about her kidney we've switched her to buprenorphine (just a nominal amount) to try and see if we can control it that way and not put added stress on her kidneys. I don't want her zonked out. If she is alive, then she is here to live, not be kept alive but spaced out.

She's very bright on the buprenorphine (whihc I'm relieved about), but this morning she was absolutely soaking wet. Obviously at this time of year that's pretty dangerous, and any time of year, is very uncomfortable, and such, for her.

I don't want to up the dose of buprenorphine because I want her to experience life if she is here.

So now my debate is what do I do about pain meds.

Quality over quantity? Do I use the Metacam knowing it could shortern her life significantly, but make her more comfortable?

My gut feeling is yes, and I'm thinking of starting one drop of Metacam alongside the buprenorphine (my vet said I could run them alongside each other), to maybe get her on the minimal dose possible, but I feel very guilty for condeming her to an earlier death (although everyone- including all the vets- but me gave up on her in November, so she is already on additional time).

I guess I'm just wondering what other people may do and where they might stand with this.

I think I would go for the shorter happier life.

We have the same problem with our dog and his lung disease. More steroids etc will shorten his life, but it mean he is active and enjoys things.

It's tough when you're making the choice for someone else, but I personally would rather have a shorter life rather than a longer life in a lot of discomfort.

I haven't got an answer as I tend to be quite flaky and think one thing one minute and the other then next :?

All I wanted to ask is would long-term Metacam definitely shorten her life? Artie is on long-term Metacam as an anti-inflammatory 'just in case he needs it', I've asked about long-term issues and FHB said there weren't any, I don't know if maybe it's a smaller dose than Rosie might need so wouldn't be applicable, in his case.

If the Metacam situation is only a 'might' shorten her life I'd *probably* go for that option.

Metacam is hard on the kidneys, according to several different people I have spoken to. I think one vet said that it lessens blood flowing to them, but I may have got that wrong. With Rosie's problems and with her urea levels and creatinine levels showing a struggling kidney, and knowing one of her kidneys is calcified, it would be detrimental for her to stay on Metacam long term.

Sky-O said:

Metacam is hard on the kidneys, according to several different people I have spoken to. I think one vet said that it lessens blood flowing to them, but I may have got that wrong. With Rosie's problems and with her urea levels and creatinine levels showing a struggling kidney, and knowing one of her kidneys is calcified, it would be detrimental for her to stay on Metacam long term.

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Ah, yes, I understand now. It does put a different reflection on it in her case. Maybe then try Metacam for a short time to see if she is any different on it and then go from there. It's not easy making these decisions, I don't envy you.

I think go with your gut to be honest. I would want whatever life she has to be a comfortable as possible even if it does mean shorter!

I gave Metacam to my kidney failure bun Ebony...and I would do it again. She had one of the best deaths of any rabbit I've had here.

I would also go with a shorter but more comfortable life. There is no point having a long drawn out painful life. It has to be quality over quantity everytime.

We never worry about long term side effects of meds with our bunnies, we always do what is needed to make them happy and comfortable in the here and now.

Thanks guys Good to know that what I felt was right is what you guys would do too and that I wasn't being sadistic or anything for doing something that might shorten her life.

I'd go with the shorter happier life too. In fact, I possibly just have done something similar with Robert and meds. I told my vet to give him anything he thought could help him. There was no point thinking about side effects later on when he was dying now.

Daisy has been on 1 ml of metacam a day for 20 months (4 kilo french lop). She is 5. It gave her the additional time and, although we are nearly at the end now, she has been great for the 20 months.

I guess you have to decide if her quality of life is better on the medication and, if it is, then you have to go with it and take the risk of the side effects. We fortunately did not have any, but I appreciate some do.

I support you totally Sky-O.
She needs metacam despite it's effect on struggling kidneys for a meaningful life. I know that you & your vet will adjust the doses to get symptom control with the minimum dose of metacam needed.
ETA Does she have an arthritic condition of her spine too, or is it the pain from the kidney?

I agree with everybody else- if no other choice is available I would go for a shorter, more comfortable time than a longer time with pain.
Quality of life is the deciding factor for me and if I can give them a good time for a shorter period, that is what I would choose.

Thanks guys, I'm going to restart her metacam tonight.

thumps_ said:

ETA Does she have an arthritic condition of her spine too, or is it the pain from the kidney?

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She sustained an injury on her spine back in October. The x-rays show no bone damage to the spine (that they could see). So we are presuming its nerve damage.

shorter but happier deffo gets my vote :wave::wave::wave:

Huggs to you hun, i hate being decision maker with these precious lives xxxx

donnamt said:

Huggs to you hun, i hate being decision maker with these precious lives xxxx

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Its hard when you know you have to do the right thing and you want to make sure it is the right thing.

I'd rather a shorter, happier life. Little animals don't understand why they're in pain. I'm in the same boat with my dog. One thing I've promised him is that he'll never suffer, if I can help it.

Its is hard, but I watched my dad die of a brain tumour and that certainly sorted out my priorities. He was very sore and in a coma for the last few days- if I could have put him to rest legally I would have done it- in a way we are much kinder to our animals than ourselves. I would never want to see another loved one go through what he did, and as a consequence I would keep them as comfortable as possible and then, once the painkiller was of no use- call it a day.

oh Sky-O - what a horrible delimma to have to face
I too, though, would go for the shorter, happier life, you can always comfort yourself with the knowledge that Rosie's quality of life was the best you could give her without any suffering, which they can't understand or reason. It sounds like you know what is best for her and she is a very lucky bun to have such a conscientious (sp) owner.
Tammy x