-
Forum/Server Upgrade If you are reading this you have made it to the upgraded forum. Posts made on the old forum after 26th October 2023 have not been transfered. Everything else should be here. If you find any issues please let us know.
-
Please Note - Medical Advice
Please keep in mind that posts on this forum are from members of the public sharing personal opinions. It is not a replacement for qualified medical advice from a veterinarian. Many illnesses share similar symptoms but require different treatments. A medical exam is necessary for an accurate diagnosis, without which appropriate treatment cannot be given.
You should always consult your vet before following any suggestions for medication or treatment you have read about. The wrong treatment could make your rabbit worse or mean your vet is unable to give the correct treatment because of drug interactions. Even non prescription drugs can do harm if given inappropriately.
We are very grateful to members who take time to answer other members questions, but please do be clear in your replies that you are sharing personal experience and not giving instructions on what must be done.
Urgent Medical Advice: If you need, or think you might need, urgent medical advice you should contact a vet. If it is out of working hours phone your vet's normal number and there should be an answer phone message with instructions on what to do.
Metacloprimide
- Thread starter rachylou
- Start date
i cant imagine them being more damaging than leaving stasis untreated. but no medication is really good is it, always some adverse affect sadly 
my dad was on a load of drugs to stop the heart rejecting but those drugs keeping him alive were damaging his healthy organs. it was better he took them than not tho.
thats my view with the kak we give to our stasis bunnies, better to have than not
not a very medical answer like you was looking for tho, sorry
my dad was on a load of drugs to stop the heart rejecting but those drugs keeping him alive were damaging his healthy organs. it was better he took them than not tho.
thats my view with the kak we give to our stasis bunnies, better to have than not
not a very medical answer like you was looking for tho, sorry
SarahP
Wise Old Thumper
I had two bunnies who ended up on daily Metoclopramide for months before they died, just to keep their guts moving. Whilst I didn't see any side effects as such, it gradually lost its effectiveness, and I think the gut comes to rely on it if you give it all the time. There was no choice with my bunnies though.
prettylupin
Wise Old Thumper
I agree with this. Up until we got Nino's diagnosis and were able to manage his episodes of stasis with daily pain relief instead he was having metclopramide for 5 days at a time every week for several months. Our vet looked into it but could not find anything to say it was harmful for long-term use, however, as with all drugs, they should only be used if needed as everything goes to the kidneys and liver for elimination and buns like us are susceptible to accumulative effects. We also experienced a wane in its effectiveness towards the end. Am glad we can now use it only as needed rather than long-term - this is the benefit of finding the underlying cause of the recurrent stasis Rachel as I have said before.
I believe that it seems to have a similar effect as long term laxative use does on a human, so the gut comes to rely on it, and you need more and more to just get the gut moving. Weaning off it can obviously be a challenge.
On a different note, there are rabbit savvy vets over in the US who don't believe that gut stimulants are beneficial in a lot of situations and just cause painful cramping, and they prefer to manage their stasis issues (generally) with lots of fluid and pain relief. So it can be done without gut stimulants in a wide variety of situations. I think it depends on the treating vet and the client as to whether or not they are used.
On a different note, there are rabbit savvy vets over in the US who don't believe that gut stimulants are beneficial in a lot of situations and just cause painful cramping, and they prefer to manage their stasis issues (generally) with lots of fluid and pain relief. So it can be done without gut stimulants in a wide variety of situations. I think it depends on the treating vet and the client as to whether or not they are used.
prettylupin
Wise Old Thumper
I agree that cramping must occur but honestly feel that in some situations the use of prokinetics is so useful to stimulate smooth muscle activity in the gut for peristalsis, in my experience the quicker you reestablish peristalsis the quicker you can relieve the gas and downward spiralling of ketosis from a stagnant bowel. I would always use metclopramide with my buns if appropriate. Fluid and analgesia is a priority but I find throwing everything at the cause leads to a faster result which is better for bun. I do accept that every case is different, I just know how important it is for my buns.
I agree that cramping must occur but honestly feel that in some situations the use of prokinetics is so useful to stimulate smooth muscle activity in the gut for peristalsis, in my experience the quicker you reestablish peristalsis the quicker you can relieve the gas and downward spiralling of ketosis from a stagnant bowel. I would always use metclopramide with my buns if appropriate. Fluid and analgesia is a priority but I find throwing everything at the cause leads to a faster result which is better for bun. I do accept that every case is different, I just know how important it is for my buns.
I wasn't saying it wasn't necessary in some situations, just that depending on your vet some will use it quicker than others, that's all. I know that some owners know that it works perfectly for their bunny and their situation, and that's cool. The reason I mentioned it was just because the OP seems concerned that there may be an issue with using so much, so just wanted to offer a slightly different option, that was all prettylupin
Wise Old Thumper
It's okay I wasn't criticising your post at all - I think it is a very valid point!
:wave:ETA I mean 'your' point not mine!
xIt's okay I wasn't criticising your post at all - I think it is a very valid point!
I guess, like with everything else, it comes down to making an informed decision based on what you think is best at the time. Differing opinions and information is ALWAYS good
Just wanted to explain a bit further, that's all I think that every poster has made good points.
I also try to avoid using meds unless necessary.
In terms of getting to the bottom of it, I found that sometimes several factors - none of which would cause stasis on it's own - can occur in short succession & togetherprecipitate stasis.
We rarely use metaclopramide for Thumper's condition which affects the lower gut. My vet advises that it be given after a syringe feed/meal to stop the cramping.
Preventing foaming in the bloat prone bun, eg Simethicone will reduce cramping too.
If you are only using metaclop every 2 months for a few days the gut will not get used to it.
Like Sarah-P I now have to give 8 hourly gut stimulants, yet for the last nearly 5 years he's had surprisingly little medication.
ETA I used dietary measures to maximise gut function
The medication hasn't become "less effective", Thumper's immune system is slowly destroying the nerve cells to his gut. We can only force what little he's got left to work harder - can't do anything about the damaged bits.
I hope that makes some sort of sense.
I also try to avoid using meds unless necessary.
In terms of getting to the bottom of it, I found that sometimes several factors - none of which would cause stasis on it's own - can occur in short succession & togetherprecipitate stasis.
We rarely use metaclopramide for Thumper's condition which affects the lower gut. My vet advises that it be given after a syringe feed/meal to stop the cramping.
Preventing foaming in the bloat prone bun, eg Simethicone will reduce cramping too.
If you are only using metaclop every 2 months for a few days the gut will not get used to it.
Like Sarah-P I now have to give 8 hourly gut stimulants, yet for the last nearly 5 years he's had surprisingly little medication.
ETA I used dietary measures to maximise gut function
The medication hasn't become "less effective", Thumper's immune system is slowly destroying the nerve cells to his gut. We can only force what little he's got left to work harder - can't do anything about the damaged bits.
I hope that makes some sort of sense.
Last edited:
Snowberry
Wise Old Thumper
Snowdrop has metaclop for when she has a stasis episode. It has taken months of learning when she needs it and when she doesnt and I rarely give it to her now. I treat her condition with fluids and metacam and then use the metaclop if she doesnt improve herself over 48hours.
I am fairly confident now that I know Snowdrop and I know when she needs the meds and when she doesnt.
I am fairly confident now that I know Snowdrop and I know when she needs the meds and when she doesnt.
Lobo
Mama Doe
While we have some minds together on this thread about ongoing and at times inexplicable bouts of stasis I would like to hear the view of other regarding oxalic acid. The following is my personal view and could be wrong, so please correct if this is the case. I am also basing on the premise that ileus/stasis is a secondary response to an underlying primary cause.
It would seem that for humans oxalic acid in the diet has only one purpose and that is to assist with peristalsis and I wonder if it is the same with bunnies. Some common bunny foods high in oxalic acid are: celery, dandelion greens, kale, broccoli, carrot (jury still out on this one), spinach and parsley. Whilst it may seem of possible benefit in the fight against stasis to feed more of these foods in the possibility of stimulating gut motility it should also be remembered that many of them are high in calcium. Oxalic acid binds with calcium to form oxalates, a salt. However, these oxalates can crystallise in the process of elimination in the urinary tract and kidney to become the calculi of bladder and kidney stones.
In the past I have grown the Australian native spinach known to the Aborigines as warrigal greens. Because I knew them to be high in oxalates and that these oxalates being a salt were water soluble I tried, on the recommendation of the Aborigines, blanching them. The bunnies would have nothing to do with them but would happily eat other spinach raw.
It would be a good thing if a natural remedy or diet modification could be found, rather than constant reliance on medication to overcome bouts of stasis. Hopefully someday stasis will be a thing of the past.
It would seem that for humans oxalic acid in the diet has only one purpose and that is to assist with peristalsis and I wonder if it is the same with bunnies. Some common bunny foods high in oxalic acid are: celery, dandelion greens, kale, broccoli, carrot (jury still out on this one), spinach and parsley. Whilst it may seem of possible benefit in the fight against stasis to feed more of these foods in the possibility of stimulating gut motility it should also be remembered that many of them are high in calcium. Oxalic acid binds with calcium to form oxalates, a salt. However, these oxalates can crystallise in the process of elimination in the urinary tract and kidney to become the calculi of bladder and kidney stones.
In the past I have grown the Australian native spinach known to the Aborigines as warrigal greens. Because I knew them to be high in oxalates and that these oxalates being a salt were water soluble I tried, on the recommendation of the Aborigines, blanching them. The bunnies would have nothing to do with them but would happily eat other spinach raw.
It would be a good thing if a natural remedy or diet modification could be found, rather than constant reliance on medication to overcome bouts of stasis. Hopefully someday stasis will be a thing of the past.
Your post is facinating Lobo. I do not have the knowledge to reply.
The only way I could keep Thumper out of stasis until he recently needed daily drugs was to allow him to select hs diet from unlimited wild plants & grasses traditionally fed to our buns 50 years ago. The proportions vary on a daily basis.
He eats a lot of dandelions, & parsley now. When he could tolerate human veg. kale & broccoli were top of the list of his preferred food. He recently started to include plantain in his diet. I did not know about the role of oxalates in gut motility until your post.
His urinary "sludge" issue has never needed medical intervention. It is controled by dentals which enable him to drink water, & the diuretic properties of dandelions & wild chervil. Wild rabbits in the UK do not get bladder sludge. Thumper's sludge is totally calcium carbonate (crystal structure on microscopy)
Blackberry & raspberry leaves were he only treatment available for rabbit GI issues 50 years ago. Wild rabbits also crave them, as this video taken in spring shows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6zRr_EpyNE A few stasis prone rabbits also crave these leaves, & there are tentative hopes of some improvement by adding them to the diet. Do you know anything about their properties?
There are many reasons why rabbit GI isues did not appear to be such a problem 50 years ago. The only one I could address was husbandry. I support your researches so strongly, & regret I can only give anecdotal support. I am a good observer. I CAN say that in Thumper's case he does not eat the plants offered because of taste preferences but it's to do with his bodily needs.
I have yet to find a good study of the wild rabbit diet.
The only way I could keep Thumper out of stasis until he recently needed daily drugs was to allow him to select hs diet from unlimited wild plants & grasses traditionally fed to our buns 50 years ago. The proportions vary on a daily basis.
He eats a lot of dandelions, & parsley now. When he could tolerate human veg. kale & broccoli were top of the list of his preferred food. He recently started to include plantain in his diet. I did not know about the role of oxalates in gut motility until your post.
His urinary "sludge" issue has never needed medical intervention. It is controled by dentals which enable him to drink water, & the diuretic properties of dandelions & wild chervil. Wild rabbits in the UK do not get bladder sludge. Thumper's sludge is totally calcium carbonate (crystal structure on microscopy)
Blackberry & raspberry leaves were he only treatment available for rabbit GI issues 50 years ago. Wild rabbits also crave them, as this video taken in spring shows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6zRr_EpyNE A few stasis prone rabbits also crave these leaves, & there are tentative hopes of some improvement by adding them to the diet. Do you know anything about their properties?
There are many reasons why rabbit GI isues did not appear to be such a problem 50 years ago. The only one I could address was husbandry. I support your researches so strongly, & regret I can only give anecdotal support. I am a good observer. I CAN say that in Thumper's case he does not eat the plants offered because of taste preferences but it's to do with his bodily needs.
I have yet to find a good study of the wild rabbit diet.
