probably no interest to peeps....poops pics added

but i have a bit of a weirdness about numbers and ive just worked out Alvins stasis history

since i started to record the episodes on a calendar in March 2008 Alvin has had 9 episodes ranging from same day recovery to two weeks of gut slow down. i cant remember what happened in 2007 but there was atleast 2.

1 No. admitted over night that was the worst ive ever seen him but after a drip and vetergesic he came home next day totally fine.

5 No. same day recoveries and totally normal the next day.

1 No. 5 days of being admitted to the vets daily before total recovery.

2 No. 13 days recovery within hours/days but relapsing a few days later then totally recovered by day 13

we have had a maximum of 253 consecutive days stasis free days and a minimum of 11 days

we are currently on day 90 stasis free since the last episode

sorry for boring ya and i dont expect a reply really :lol::lol:

so in actual fact its not as bad as i fear its just the long ones that stick in my mind and make it feel worse :shock:

Time seems to stretch on forever when you have a sick bunny. Poor you and Alvin, so glad to hear he is doing well at the minute xxxx

also the increase since July last year 5 episodes are when Pearl first got poorly so it leads me to suspect that diet (extra sorry treats for one had to be given to the other) and stress (he has tested high in stress hormone) are his triggers as his bloods came back clear.

aww my little angel

I do hope you have cracked it and its the end of his episodes.

Bless you both.. I have no head for figures so not sure what it all means, but I am glad that he seems to be good at the moment

i think im a bit weird with numbers tbh, i dunno why i just worked all that out and i count out the leaves i give too... i scare me :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

donnamt said:

i think im a bit weird with numbers tbh, i dunno why i just worked all that out and i count out the leaves i give too... i scare me :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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:lol::lol::lol:.. well scaring yourself is no fun, Scaring other people I likey :lol:

Stuff like this is fascinating to me (I like numbers too).

I'm glad Alvin is doing so well now Long may it last.

Aawww the little stress monster - didn't realise you'd had so many episodes with him.

I'd be paranoid with a stasis prone bun - I have a few that have the odd episode, but luckily they have all managed to come out of it in the early stages with just infacol/exercise/tummy rubs and occassionally cisipride and metacam.

If only he wasn't such a stress head you could give him bunny massage to help chill him out, but not much you can do when they're not keen on handling is there?

BB Mommy said:

Aawww the little stress monster - didn't realise you'd had so many episodes with him.

I'd be paranoid with a stasis prone bun - I have a few that have the odd episode, but luckily they have all managed to come out of it in the early stages with just infacol/exercise/tummy rubs and occassionally cisipride and metacam.

If only he wasn't such a stress head you could give him bunny massage to help chill him out, but not much you can do when they're not keen on handling is there?

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i think Lou is the best medicine for him, not even a hint of a slow down when he was at bonding :roll::lol::lol::lol:

hes doing amazing right now, im scared to look at him wrong incase he gets upset.

If you like Donna I can try and help make you a bubble wrap michelin man stylee outfit so you can try a tummy massage? I think it would work

So glad his tum is doing well, Holly must be a calming influence x

Jenefina said:

If you like Donna I can try and help make you a bubble wrap michelin man stylee outfit so you can try a tummy massage? I think it would work

So glad his tum is doing well, Holly must be a calming influence x

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she does appear to be even more lazy/relaxed than he is :shock::shock: shes always flopped or lying legs stretched out or eating hay.. i dont think she ever leaves the bunny room either :lol::lol::lol::lol: and she dont eat her special poops :roll:

That would be great if you've cracked it!!!! What is his diet now coz from posts here n there I gather you've changed it a bit and introduced the miracle dried leaves! I'm hoping someone will do a whole thread on the various leaves and drying them etc that would be really usefull!

Daisy must have had half a dozen episodes last year most were cured by metacam and chasing but one she was hospitalised for about 5 days! However I removed the hay 'n' hide tunnels which I was suspicious of and she's had no further episodes for almost 6months!!!

Alvins new diet is.....

Animal dreams hay, he loves the stuff :shock: i still give pure pastures hay too and a generous handful of oat wheat and barley hay each evening. every time i top up i crumble handpicked dried bramble leaves into the hay, they spend ages hunting it out haha

the water i now put in a large 1.5litre dog bowl and he actually drinks the stuff now, maybe he didnt like the smaller bowl :?

morning - 10ml measure of Allen and page pellets shared.
6pm - 1 fengugreek chrunchy each
6.30pm - a bowl full of throughly washed fresh bramble leaves, dandelion leaves, hawthorn leaves (soon to add plaintain and rose leaves too), a tiny handful of kale and a small romaine lettuce leaf, couple of basil leaves thrown ontop.
11pm - 10ml measure of allen and page pellets.

i give the odd dried bramble leaf when they get all excited for treats.

poops are huge and golden, hes loads more active (ish haha)

Holly still leaves her special poops but i really cant see how its diet related she did them on no veg and shes not really getting enough pellets to not need the poops.. its a weird one, but shes not poorly after 5 weeks of it so ive stopped worrying

i havent given any fruit or extra pellets in weeks and its really made a huge difference. he did have a slow down the day after i took him and holly to the vets (stress slowdown maybe?) but he didnt stop eating just ate hay instead of pellets one morning, then a week later the same happened again. no refusal of food but poops got slightly smaller, if i wasnt so para i wouldnt of noticed it was that close to being normal :shock:

All those numbers hurt my brain :? but hope that Alvin has thousands of days before you ever have to think of him being poorly again...

I give pretty lupin the credit for understanding that when a bun has had stasis/bloat the gut bacteria are unstable for the next 2 weeks & recurrence is, in a sense, really incomplete resolution of the intital episode.

I think that the big underlying factor with Alvin is that he is so easily stressed by temperament. ANY form of stress slows down a bunny gut.
(It's the equivalent of humans who get the runs before exams)

I wonder whether Alvin realised that Pearl was ill, before she had the initial symptoms of rapid breathing, & that her changed behaviour, caused him insecurity/stress leading to the prolonged episodes of stasis. Similarly when she was so very poorly at Christmas.

My personal theory with Alvin is that because of his temperament, his gut runs on the slow side at the best of times. A bit of extra stress, & the gut slows down enough to allow the bacteria to ferment the food in the gut forming Gas = tummy ache = more slow down. Perhaps these are the short lived episodes, which are relieved when he "passes wind".
I suspect that the longer lived episodes are when there has been more severe disruption of the gut bacteria, & slow down has been more severe. There were everal potential issues last winter, affecting many buns.

Please don't hammer yourself so hard. Pearl had a normal tummy & was fine on the original diet, as would be most normal buns.
Tummy bunnies are different. They need a lot of fiber to stimulate the gut naturally, and cannot tolerate a tummy full of rich nutrient. [This really gets the bacteria into multiplying & gas production. Some produce toxins which also slow down the gut]

I think that you are doing all the right things, he's eating lots of hay, he's going for the brambles which are a good gut stimulant. There's low veg and pellets but he'll have to have adequate nutrition. If he needs more, it helps to give small quantities regularly - x3 or x4 daily. The "wild" plants have lots of fiber & necessary nutrients in a balance to which bunny digestive systems are adapted.
This way you are improving his baseline gut function, with a faster throughput, hopefully to a level where small drops in motility from stress won't tip him into stasis or painful gas production.

I am a strong advocate of Simethicone (Infacol). We all know that bunnies can't burp. It simply converts the froth made by the bacteria (& which is difficult to shift - even getting trapped) to free gas which will pass through the bowel & out from the other end, with less pain, & much more easily.
From what I've seen of Alvin he moves around a fair bit. Hopping around helps gas a lot too.
Tummy rubs are great for a bun who is layed back with humans, & will tolerate the position on his back. Mine won't!

I'm really chuffed that you've seen that most of Alvin's gut issues are short lived, & can be a bit more relaxed about it, - you've more control over it than you thought. I think that as you are able to relax more, Alvin will improve further, but he seems to me to be a very "bunny's bunny" Holly will be great for him.

thumps_ said:

I'm really chuffed that you've seen that most of Alvin's gut issues are short lived, & can be a bit more relaxed about it, - you've more control over it than you thought. I think that as you are able to relax more, Alvin will improve further, but he seems to me to be a very "bunny's bunny" Holly will be great for him.

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this is how i feel today ive written it down but never really digested the events properly and its only been 3 times in 3 years that its lasted longer than 24 hours

donnamt said:

this is how i feel today ive written it down but never really digested the events properly and its only been 3 times in 3 years that its lasted longer than 24 hours

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Good thinking to write it down. :thumb:
You've had such a pasting in all aspects of your life at monthly intervals for the last 18 months. You've not had the break needed to recover from exhaustion, & to sort it out in your head until now.

i almost feel relaxed :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

and today i wasnt scared of what i was coming home to neither, first in months and months...

glad i got bored at work and looked at the numbers and dates

Wow his diet has changed a lot!! No greens?!? That's the staple veg for D&D! I'd love to try mine on the wild leaves but Im terrified Id pick the wrong ones or ones that had some unknown weedkiller on them!!