• Forum/Server Upgrade If you are reading this you have made it to the upgraded forum. Posts made on the old forum after 26th October 2023 have not been transfered. Everything else should be here. If you find any issues please let us know.

Bonding two rabbits - help desperately needed!!!

Oola

New Kit
Hi - this will probably turn into a huge essay so here goes... we're in desperate need of some help!

Basically we started off with two bunnies - Moppy and Snoopy. Moppy is a dwarf lionhead and was three months old when we got her. She was bonded to Snoopy, our large, fat, lazy lop ear, and it went like a dream. They were both primarily indoor rabbits, but would happily go outside on big excursions in the garden or stay out in the hutch and run in the summer without any problems.

Unfortunately we lost Snoopy at the beginning of April, and Moppy was diagnosed with steatitis in the same week (unrelated and bad timing). She went into the veterinary hospital and recovered after an op and some treatment. About three weeks after Snoopy died, we rehomed a small 'mongrel' rescue rabbit named Ozzy.

Ozzy has no front teeth, so can't nip, and is very energetic and a bit scatty. He was found wandering the streets with overgrown teeth and was very underweight and had diahhroea. I think his experiences as a stray bun have sort of exacerbated this behaviour.

When we first got him and let him into his temporary outside run he was running around with glee and some nervous energy, doing lots of binkies just at the sight of us coming to see him. When we let Moppy out into the garden to see him, she was a bit aloof and kept turning her back him (normal behaviour, we thought she was just sussing him out), but he would get really overexcited by the sight of her and would do several binkies and even thrown himself down on the floor when she sat near his run. SO far so good.

We introduced them first by accident, we had the run lid off and whilst I was sitting with Ozzy, Moppy jumped in behind me and met Ozzy. There was a little scrap but Ozzy dominated by humping her. We let him carry on as Moppy wasn't putting up too much of a fight, but she started really running away and almost panting, so we broke it up and let her back in the garden.

The second time they met was on neutral territory in our small bathroom. This time Moppy was not giving in so easily, and there was quite a bit of nasty fighting that was difficult to break up. Ozzy has a tendency to charge forward, I don't think its aggressive, I just think he's a bit scatty and doesn't know how to be careful and quiet. I think Moppy reads this as aggression or just too much and immediately goes to bite him - she's already drawn bloody from me a few times, even with gloves on. I try and separate them as quickly as possible or intervene when I can see the signs of a show-down.

We tried again two or three times, but each time it just seems to get worse. Ozzy is now indoors in Moppy's territory, in his own run, and they're OK when they're sniffing each other through the run bars. I've tried mixing their litter tray contents and swapping over things from their own 'territories' for about a week and a half, but Moppy just seems to be getting more vicious and violent with him. He retaliates by kicking her hard with his back legs, and even when I slow them both down by stroking their heads and getting them to approach each other slowly and quietly, the moment one of them makes a move it freaks both of them out and they're in the midst of a really nasty scuffle. I think Ozzy gets even more highly strung and tends to kick out, and so its a downward spiral of mistrust. In the bathroom he threw himself on the floor after they had a bun fight, but then she'll come over and he's up on all fours, nudging his head under hers quite forcefully, and she sees this as a threat and is biting and scrapping again.

I'm just at a loss as to what to do. I wonder whether I'm just making things worse by trying to keep bonding them, but we've read up a lot and had lots of information from the homers who say we've basically done everything that they would do anyway. We don't want to give Moppy to someone else to bond for us as if she gets stressed she has a tendency to stop eating (she did this at the vets and they had to send her home to try and get her to eat).

I've let Ozzy run around in the lounge part of Moppy's territory (she has free reign day and night in the lounge/dining room, and I put a partition to keep her in the dining room area so that he can put his scent around the lounge), but she watches fiercely through the bars and it seems to wind her up even more. I just feel like I'm doing everything wrong!!!

We feel like our last resort is to take them out in the car together to see if that'll do anything, but given that she seems to really hate him in a face-to-face situation, I'm not confident that it'll do any good at all. Am I looking at a lost cause? She was fantastic with Snoopy and I was hoping that she'd be able to have another fantastic (but not the same obv.) partnership with another rabbit... but it just feels like a disaster. We will have had Ozzy for 3 weeks by this weekend.

Any advice greatly received, I'm a bit desperate here! And apologies for the essay...

PS: forgot to add that both are neuteured; Moppy was done about 10 months ago and Ozzy just over a month ago I think. I think he may have hormones surging about a bit? THey are also roughly the same age - both around 2 1/2
 
Last edited:
This was them a week after they met... they tend to be fairly relaxed when there's a barrier in the way.

oz-and-moppy1.jpg
 
Any bonding should be done totally on neutral territory, rabbits are notorius for defending any territory which they feel belongs to them.

From my own experience of bonding rabbits for people their reaction through wire is often very different to that when they are placed together on neutral territory.

The best way to bond is to do it in one session allowing yourself at least 48 hours where you have no prior committements so that you can sit and observe them all the time if they require you to do so, this can mean that you get no sleep! You need to have the area thoroughly prepared and cleaned and use a small space about 4 x 2 foot. Have a broom handy so that you can pull them apart if they are fighting, water sprayers are not advised as they only soak and stress out rabbits. You want them to be as calm and stress free as possible.

They will mount each other, they will nip and you will get some chasing this is all normal and should be tolerated as they need to sort out their hierachy.

If you dont feel confident in doing this contact some local rescues who may for a donation start the bonding off for you.
 
From my own experience of bonding rabbits for people their reaction through wire is often very different to that when they are placed together on neutral territory.

I totally agree with this.

In fact I agree with all Janice's advice.
 
Hi, thanks for your reply.

We did try them in the bathroom which is neutral territory, and then in the garden in a small run (it's a v. large garden), but Moppy just spends all of her time looking for ways out. She's very good at jumping so being in there with them to break up the bad fights is necessary, but means she often has a way of quickly escaping.

Is it too early to give the car ride a go? I'm willing to put in a 48 hour stint at home but we'll have to wait to get a run built to be able to do it.
 
We did try them in the bathroom which is neutral territory, and then in the garden in a small run (it's a v. large garden), is the garden neutral or did they have free range previously?

but Moppy just spends all of her time looking for ways out. She's very good at jumping so being in there with them to break up the bad fights is necessary, but means she often has a way of quickly escaping.
If you have a rabbit that is a jumper, you need to use something which has a lid on it to stop them jumping out. Some rabbits do try and escape and choose the easy option as they can feel threatened intitially when someone new is added. They need to learn to trust the other rabbit.

Is it too early to give the car ride a go?
not at all, I frequently bond rabbits for other people and all mine come to me in a car (although most people choose not to put them intogether before bringing them as they are not confident enough to do the bonding themselves) timeing is fine.

I'm willing to put in a 48 hour stint at home but we'll have to wait to get a run built to be able to do it. Preparation work for bonding is one of the most important things to take into consideration when bonding, this also includes moving them to a larger space once they are ready to expand their accomodation. This includes size and neutrality of bonding space, the enviroment of the bonding space, timing so that you have adequate time to start and continue, knowledge, neutral territory to place them in which can be slowly expanded over time.
 
Well we've been trying and trying... and there's still biting and thumping and scratching. I'm just at a loss as to what to do. It's been done on neutral territory, tried breaking them up when they start scrapping, everything that's been suggested.

I've spoken to our RSPCA ladies and they've said everything we're doing they would do anyway. Should I give up trying? There've been a couple of nasty bites and scratches (it's hard to break them up quickly) and there seems to be very little progress - maybe a bit more tolerance before the scraps and grunts start. Believe me, I try to intervene as soon as possible and try to keep them calm. They'll sit nose to nose, but as soon as I'm not right in there with them, they're just either staying away from each other, or having a go.

We took them out in the car tonight. We cleared out the boot, took out the parcel shelf and put in a fleecey blanket. They stayed really close throughout the ride, burying their heads in each other's fur, Moppy leant into Ozzy's tummy and they even sat nose to nose for ages. So we pulled up back outside the house and gave them time to destress. As soon as they weren't worried about the driving, they Moppy was grunting and going for Ozzy again. She's emerging as the dominant one, but she just goes for him all the time, regardless of what he's done. We took them out about three times and each time they'd cuddle up to each other, then went back to their old ways.

After the third ride, we brought them straight in, and let them destress in the kitchen (neutral territory). At first they passed by each other, sat fairly close etc, got close and then would pause before moving away. At one point Moppy put her head down and I think she was waiting for Ozzy to wash her - but I think he's never had that before and doesn't know what to do, so he just hopped off. She then got more and more aggressive each time they would come close so we just separated them (wire divide), as I know when Moppy gets in a grump, she needs to be left.

So is this it? Has she got it into her head that she really doesn't like him, and there's nothing we can do about that? I'm finding this really hard at the moment as I feel like I'm running out of options :(
 
maybe keep trying the car rides if that seems to work or give them a break from bonding so they can forget their bad experiences OR would you be able to keep them side by side for a couple of months and try the slow method?
I did it this way swapped trays etc etc
 
Hi, we pretty much have them side by side - Moppy is a house rabbit and she spends most of her time in the living room. We have an open plan dining room and living room, and Ozzy is in a big wire mesh run in the dining room, so that they can see each other. Sometimes we put a divide up in between the two rooms so that they can literally both sit in their soil trays side by side. They're fine like this, and they'll sit grooming, sometimes smelling each other or ignoring each other, but as someone has said, their rabbits are remarkably different when there's wire in the way.

I did wonder whether I should remove Ozzy to the outside hutch and run for a few weeks and then try the process from scratch. The thing is, we let Moppy out to exercise almost every night (she has free reign of the house but we think fresh air etc. is good for her) so she'd be seeing Ozzy in his run. There's no way really of dividing it/hiding it away from her because the garden is so big.

Has anyone else given it a break and tried from scratch a few weeks later? I think she's getting into the habit of just thinking she doesn't like him as default.

I was also thinking of taking them to my mother's house (few mins away), and seeing how they get on there, as it'd be completely and utterly neutral, no chance of any familiar smells. What do people think? I feel like I need all the help I can get at the moment.
 
I think leave it for two days and try again, wipe them both over with a grooming wipe and pop them in a neutral carrier and take them for a decent car ride. Are you 100% sure everything is neutral?

Have them in a very small space for the first 24 hours and you must intervene before they get into a full blown fight, if you see tail up head down a light spray of water should disfuse things and also encourage them to groom. You must not give them too much space to soon and remember everytime you give them a little more space it will unsettle things and you need to supervise them constantly.

Your other option is getting a expereinced rescue to do it for you, taking them away from their own environment does help sometimes, a girl i knew recently was rehoming her buck because they fought, she tried everything, she was going on holiday and put them in boarding, the lady there tried to bond them and it worked they are now very happy. :)
 
OK, thanks for that! So once they're in a completely neutral environment, do they have to stay there? As in, we can't take them out of that environment unti l they're bonded. I think that's the main issue here?
 
So once they're in a completely neutral environment, do they have to stay there? If you start bonding in one place leave them in that place for at least 48 hours ideally longer.

As in, we can't take them out of that environment unti l they're bonded. When you move them it must be to a totally neutral place or somewhere which has been thoroughly cleaned and all traces of rabbits smells remove. When they are moved to a new place this should only be a smallish area and once they are settled for 48 hours then slowly increase their space. Bonding is a process which can take many weeks ..

Examples : If in days / weeks / months to come you need to use a pet carrier ensure that it has been thoroughly cleaned .. If you let them in to another room ensure that they have been thoroughly cleaned and desmelled ...
 
I think taking them to your mums house is a god idea, Ive just started bonding 2 of my buns today, made a square with 4 sections of the wire runs u can buy, on a blanket, put my male (Smudge)in first(the female can be quite territorial) then i added my female (Flopsy),there was a bit of humping and hi, following her round and trying to hump, there was a bit of fur pulling especially when he tried to hump her head a few times, and one little fight, i sat there with 2 saucepans and when they started to fight i bashed them together,(the saucepans not the bunnies :p) Smudge would stop what he was doing (not get off) but then he'd get off...it wouldnt stop him trying again but he seemed to get it into his head that trying to hump her head was the wrong way round.I started this morning and already Flopsy is grooming Smudges head and they are lying side by side.
I think I've been lucky, I was going to send them to a very good boarding place that offered to bond them, but I bit the bullet and tried myself, I hope it becomes a bit easier for you soon, Im in Bedfordshire btw too :).
Good luck
Neet x
 
Back
Top