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Bonding! All ok hopefully

Beatrix Potter

Mama Doe
Hi everyone
I have been bonding my wildie bun Spudsey with new black bunny since 3.30 this afternoon, thankfully my partner sat in the bedroom with me when I put them in together as I must admit to feeling physically sick! :oops:
Its going ok...the last time I bonded Spudsey (this is the 3rd time, the 1st was successful) both bunnies were rolling around on the floor fighting :shock: this time Spudsey is intent on being the 'boss' once again, and has scared little black bun so much that he seems intent on sitting on a small plastic box where he appears to feel the safest from this little girlie bun who keeps pulling all his fur out!
Meanwhile Spuds is quite chilled out, having a wash, eating, etc and occasionally going up to black bun for a sniff. He has let her a few times but mostly decides to make a run for it and makes several dashes around the temporary run knocking water and food bowls all over the place!
I have decided to just leave them to it throughout the night, as I did the first time I bonded Spuds. Everything black bunny has been doing such as stamping, and making murmuring noises is what Spudsey did when she was first bonded so I feel a little bit reassured that all is ok...the first time I bonded Spudsey I thought she was going to have a heart attack! :oops:
The plan is to move both bunnies into Spudseys hutch and run in a couple of days I guess (have a few days off work booked as bunny bonding holiday). I guess if I fully clean the hutch and run and patio then give it a new lick of paint and try and move position slightly all will be well????
Sorry for the rambling...have been shut in a bedroom for most of the day, though thats a bit better than the garage I did intend to be shut away in....
Have a bit of video footage too which I'll put on here at some stage....
 
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Spudsey has nudged his nose in a friendly way, then we had another scuffle where black bun stuck himself in a corner....spudsey was nudging his body and then started sort of 'pawing' him with both front feet???? black bun is shaking and I want to try and comfort him by giving him a little stroke but not sure if I should touch either rabbit because of mixing up scents? I haven't touched either of them all afternoon.
 
I'm not a bonding expert (I have actually bonded lots of bunnies but they've all hit it off straight away! Troublesome bunnies are a bit of an unknown to me!) but I think, if it were me, I'd split them up for the night but keep them in ajoining cages.

Sounds to me like Spudsey is being a little bit mean to black bunny and I should think black bunny will be feeling very stressed out. Hopefully, if they calm down over night but remain near each other, you'll be able to start again tomorrow where you finish today without taking any backwards steps. Also, put Spudsey into black bunny's cage so black bunny has a bit of an 'advantage'. In theory, he should feel a little braver if the cage smells more of him than of Spudsey.

Good luck! I hope you're not going to have to sit up all night! :lol:
 
Spudsey sounds like she needs a spray of water to chill her out and remind her its not nice to bully! You have to let them sort themselves out to a point but i always think they need to knwo you are top bunny at the end of the day, a spray of water will defuse things and also encourage spudsey to groom. Have you done the car ride?
 
Sorry...logged off before I got these replies! Left the bunnies to it for the night, a chase occured perhaps every half hour or so.
Yes I was up most of the night so feeling pretty tired today!!!
Will take them both out for a trip in the car in a bit to see if things settle down :roll:
 
How are they this morning? Personally I would take everything out of the bonding pen so that there aren't any places for them to 'escape' from each other or items such as bowls to get territorial over. Hay scattered over the floor and a water bottle or two should suffice for the initial bond.

Personally I'm not a fan of squirting water to break up fights as I think it just confuses them and makes them frightened. If 'attacks' are getting prolonged or a bun is getting very stressed, I would just hold the aggressive bunny to one side and count to ten. While you're out with them in the car you could pop to a shop and buy a little jar of fruit baby food - something like the hipp apple and banana (check the ingredients first to make sure it's not got anything bunny-unsafe in it). If you smear a little of it on their heads it can encourage them to 'groom' each other and this will help them to relax and groom spontaneously.

I would definitely not move them back into the hutch for at least a week, possibly even longer, especially if it was previously 'owned' by the more assertive bun. Give it a good wash round with white vinegar too, to help get rid of any smell.

Good luck, hope they settle down today x
 
Took them out in the carrier earlier and they were fine, when I got home I left them in there for about an hour just to give them both a bit of chill out time really. Back in the run Spudsey has nudged his head again but mostly when she goes up to him she pulls his fur and he legs it. Just put them both in the carrier again. Would leaving them in the carrier over night be ok? With monitoring of course!
Its Spudseys previous hutch/run, don't think I could have them in the bedroom for a week but might see if someone can board them for me.
 
What sort of space have you got the buns in at the moment? If they are in a space larger than 5 x 2 cut them down to this sized space.

Remove anything which could cause them to try and dominate each other. If you are on a floor surface where it could get damaged if they wee on it, cover it with either paper or thick card.

Particuarly if they are still iffy with each other don't move them until at least 48 hours after they are calm and settled with each other, you may have to keep them in the same space as they are for up to a week, occassionally this needs to be longer. The more you move them the more stressed and unsettled they become and the longer they will take to settle, what they need is consistency sos that they can sort out their relationship with each other.

The hutch willl need a thorough clean out particuarly if one has lived in it before, again another reason to delay transferring them into it as non neutral smells can easily lead them to kicking off if you are unlucky.

I agree with Alison about the use of the water sprayer, please avoid using one of these as it just stresses out the buns which is really what you need to try and avoid. what you are after is for them to learn to trust each other so that they become calmer with each other which will help move things forward, by spraying them with water they will also find you a threat as well as the bunny you are bonding them with.
 
I have a question.

Why do people say no to a water sprayer but yes to hoover/car rides? Don't these have the same effect?
 
Personally I'm not a fan of any of them and prefer to just leave them where they are. However, I can see that there is a difference between a car ride and a water pistol, because a car ride causes them to seek comfort in each other, whereas a water pistol is divisive and pushes them apart and can make them associate getting near each other with an uncomfortable experience. If you have skittish buns because they are frightened of getting a soaking, you are more likely to get a fight because they tend to kick off when one of them makes a sudden movement. You don't get this in a car ride because you are doing it to consolidate a bond not to break up a fight.
 
Personally I'm not a fan of any of them and prefer to just leave them where they are. However, I can see that there is a difference between a car ride and a water pistol, because a car ride causes them to seek comfort in each other, whereas a water pistol is divisive and pushes them apart and can make them associate getting near each other with an uncomfortable experience. If you have skittish buns because they are frightened of getting a soaking, you are more likely to get a fight because they tend to kick off when one of them makes a sudden movement. You don't get this in a car ride because you are doing it to consolidate a bond not to break up a fight.

I see. I thought it was probably something like that. When I've used a water sprayer I've found it hasn't had any effect. The bun in question has just ignored it.
 
i have put buns in a carrier overnight before ...put a waterbottle on though and hay in there to munch .;)

Thats great thank you, I may have a peaceful night! Both bunnies are currently in the carrier and have been for a couple of hours. The water bottle is on and there is hay inside, both bunnies have been taking it in turns to drink water, black bunny has also been eating whilst in there plus grooming :) I haven't seen him groom at all whilst hes been in the run. Plus there have been a couple of occasions where black bunny appears to be nuzzling Spudsey :) But also there have been a couple of occasions where a scuffle occurs, but I think they are taking it in turns as to who is 'up front' of the carrier. :roll:
 
Its quite a large space 6x6 I reckon :roll: Unfortunately i can't adjust it at present as my other half has gone out and the 'run' consists of lots of plastic tote boxes :oops: and a shed panel :oops: which has been positioned in such a way that I daren't move it. I couldn't get to borrow a run so this was the next best thing!

The 'run' has two plastic backed picnic rugs in to protect the carpet (which is wrecked anyway so it doesn't really matter) lots of newspaper, couple of plastic boxes filled with hay, couple of towels to sit on plus food scattered about and a water bowl in the corner.

I'm going to see if I can get them into my boarding place in a couple of days if they seem ok....there is nowhere else neutral for them to go and the hutch was spudseys.....

I must admit I'm not keen on the water idea...I tried that on one of my cats and I definitely think he got more stressed out because of it.

Thanks for all the tips :)
 
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Its quite a large space 6x6 I reckon :roll: Unfortunately i can't adjust it at present as my other half has gone out and the 'run' consists of lots of plastic tote boxes :oops: and a shed panel :oops: which has been positioned in such a way that I daren't move it.

Could you put something across it to section part of it off to make it smaller? You should find that making the area smaller (but bigger than a pet carrier) should really help the bonding along. Even if you chop it off diagonally and just use a corner it should help.

Personally I'd be reluctant to move them to another location; going to a boarders would be a change in environment which can make them fight early in a bond, and if there is the smell of other bunnies there that could also make them fight. The boarder in effect would need to be keeping an eye on them 24/7 for the first couple of days - depending on where they would be housed, is that going to be possible and are they going to be experienced enough and happy to accept responsibility for boarding a new bond?
 
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