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Grieving Rabbits?

elve_mk2

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Prompted by a thread in gen chat, and not wanting to take it off topic, I wondered what your views on this are?

I really don't think rabbits grieve, but they do have a very strict hierarchy or 'pecking order' and if one rabbit vanishes, it causes a whole reaorganisation of who is the boss. When Maa had to leave her girls after her op (couldn't bond her back in) She had obviously been the boss, being their mother - so when she vanished a power struggle began with her daughters. Until they got the hierarchy sorted out, there was a lot more chasing etc. so I'm sure bereaved bunnies are going through this rather than the grief of bereavement which humans suffer, and it may well cause them to challenge the humans they live with too.

In addition, rabbits being prey animals, gain their security from an unchanging environment - and their partners are part of their environment, so any change in who they live with causes insecurity, which can lead to behavioural problems too. When Benny lost Pepsi, he became very withdrawn and immobile - just didn't really dare move without his 'shadow' by his side giving him confidence. Similar behaviour when it's really windy as that frightens him too.

I fixed this problem by changing his environment, as it was the lack of Pepsi in his normal environment that was spooking him out, rather than 'grief' as we know it. After bringing him indoors to live, he was fine, because he didn't associate his brother with being indoors. He was 'over it' in just a day once out of the shed.
 
i dont think Alvin greived for Pearl but he did greive for a partner. it was only 4 days but he was hurtling towards stasis and the day after i left him with Lou he was binkying.

so yes i do agree they dont greive like we do, but take a partner away after theyve had that love and its definately a sadness they develope.

Well based on my experience of Alvin :lol::lol::lol:
 
i completly disagree when snowy went missing dora refused to eat she didnt want to know she followed me around but wouldnt let me stroke her, she got thinner and thinner wasting away we treid letting her meet lots of other rabbits and she eventually choose arthur jumping with him and eating immediatly. so the actual company she needed was very specific not any rabbit would do. she started slowly putting on weight she was happier binkying which we know is a sign of happiness and groomed him never leaving his side for the first few weeks, she definatly was greiving for the loss of her sister. sorry elve on this one i definatly disagree. it was not heirarchy she as looking for or enviroment but comfort and love which she found in arthur! x
 
When Bonnie died, Robert was not in any way ready to accept the wife we got from the rescue for him. I don't think it was grief really, but he did not see Bonnie's body and I think he still believed she was at the vets (she was always sporadically away, as was he). It was like he was thinking "I don't want this new friend, I'll wait for Bonnie, thanks!" They did have a very special bond - brother and sister - and they were so close it was unbelievable. So much so that when she was poorly during her last stay, we even left Robert there with her to try and boost her a bit.
After a while (and another bad episode for Robert over Christmas) he was ready to move on and seemed to have "forgotten" or "realised" that Bonnie was not coming back to him and he settled with Gertie.
 
I dont think it's possible to generalise. I have seen both extremes when a Bun loses a partner. I have had some who become so depressed that they effectively give up :cry: Others behave as if nothing has happened (which is actually just as upsetting to see :?).

I do think Rabbits sense a loss but I dont think they grieve in the way humans do. Well they wouldn't would they, they are Rabbits !!
 
I have to disagree with you in a way Elve ... Oscar refused to come out of his enclosure when he lost his Hermione, was very withdrawn and just not like himself. Used to thump ALL night to get attention and often I would bring him in and sleep in the study to keep him company. When I went to take Oscar to the vets to say goodbye to Hermione it broke my heart :cry::cry: I don't think he understood what was happening at first, but twigged that she had gone. He was frantically grooming her and then tried to dig at her back to wake her up. Makes me cry thinking about it now...

When I bought Noisette home he could smell another female... I have NEVER seen him so happy and was binkying MENTALLY in the garden. He was really grieving for company.

So no, I do believe rabbits "grieve"... but I think its more for the fact they are without company... Oscar at the time of losing Hermione compared to Oscar now is like comparing two completely different rabbits.
 
I belive buns react in differant ways just like we do, I know if either doc or beth past away they would become with drawn and depressed as they are inseperable,

ive had one kit die on me after being seperated from mom,

some dont react others do,
 
I really think it depends on the rabbit and also the situation as to how they act as they act and do why they do.

I do completely agree that they don't grieve as we do, but the wide variety of different reactions I have come across shows there is more depth than we possibly give them credit for.
 
All mine without a doubt grieved for Saffy, Joey took the longest to get back to normal, mine binky and charge around normally, they all went off their food and i had no binkies for about a month after. I was really worried about them.
 
I think most animals grieve, but they don't dwell on it like we do. Most animals are still very close to their wild decendants and they would not have the luxury to dwell on grief like we do. I think everythings first aim in life is to survive- in wild situations to then be able to reproduce- therefore they cannot sit and 'wallow', but must carry on with life to survive.

Certainly, the most obvious form of grief I have seen was when Trigger, our cat was PTS, and Mustard wandered around calling for him for 2 weeks. Some of my rabbits recovered well from the loss of a partner and others were clearly knocked by it- whether that was down to the strength of the bond or character of the rabbit, I don't know.
 
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It is a tough one because we tend to attribute human emotions to our pets without really knowing if those emotions are how they feel or not.

But, to the point. We had a pair who were bonded for almost nine years. Liam died and Molly died 38 days later.
 
i did forget to add that Pearl was terminal so i beleive Alvin already said goodbye to her before i took her to PTS. the last week of her life he really went hump mad and i think that she was already leaving him, the grooming had stopped from her so the bond was already starting to break down. so when i bought her body home it only took about 10 mins before he sat with his bum to her.

the day after he was totally normal binkying and eating etc but within a few days he had started to withdraw so i dont think it was pearl he was missing but a bunny friend, and i was proved right by the binkying at the rescue when he was surrounded by other buns :love:

i wish i could get over pearl as easy has Alvin has :(
 
attributing emotion to animals

We attribute the emotion when an animal seems withdrawn and 'lost' after the death of a bonded partner. But it doesn't matter what you call it, if the bond was strong most rabbits and almost all guinea pigs experience the loss as a very negative thing.

We have always let ours see the body (if the death didn't occur in their home) so that they are not left waiting and worrying. This always seemed important.

Whether it is grief or a sudden change in routine and familiarity, it has a negative effect which we find is almost always resolved by careful introduction of a suitable new bonding partner.
 
I dont think it's possible to generalise. I have seen both extremes when a Bun loses a partner. I have had some who become so depressed that they effectively give up :cry: Others behave as if nothing has happened (which is actually just as upsetting to see :?).

I do think Rabbits sense a loss but I dont think they grieve in the way humans do. Well they wouldn't would they, they are Rabbits !!

I agree. Having not lost any rabbits yet I can't say rabbit-wise but I have kept ratties who are very intelligent animals.

Some have not been bothered by the loss of cage-mates whereas some have become withdrawn and distressed. I fostered a mother rat and her litter and kept mum plus two of her daughters. One of the daughters adored her mum and was very closely bonded with her - when the mum was poorly the two daughters brought her food and extra bedding and stayed with her.

When mum died (Mollie :love:) - Fudge, the girly most closely bonded with her mum gave up and died not long afterwards. Rolo, Fudges' sister who was very closely bonded with her sister gave up and died soon after Fudge. Neither Fudge nor Rolo were really poorly as such - they just gave up out of grief. The other ratties living in the cage were distressed but not being so closely bonded with this trio they lived long after these three. So I truly do believe some animals grieve, yes.
 
I agree. Having not lost any rabbits yet I can't say rabbit-wise but I have kept ratties who are very intelligent animals.

Some have not been bothered by the loss of cage-mates whereas some have become withdrawn and distressed. I fostered a mother rat and her litter and kept mum plus two of her daughters. One of the daughters adored her mum and was very closely bonded with her - when the mum was poorly the two daughters brought her food and extra bedding and stayed with her.

When mum died (Mollie :love:) - Fudge, the girly most closely bonded with her mum gave up and died not long afterwards. Rolo, Fudges' sister who was very closely bonded with her sister gave up and died soon after Fudge. Neither Fudge nor Rolo were really poorly as such - they just gave up out of grief. The other ratties living in the cage were distressed but not being so closely bonded with this trio they lived long after these three. So I truly do believe some animals grieve, yes.

The rats is an interesting one. I had a bonded group of 5 females and I had to have my oldest two (sisters) Pattie and Selma pts. I never let the others see the bodies, as my dad came with me and took the girls to be buried in the garden.
For about a month after, the girls were lethargic, didn't want to leave the cage, weren't playful or anything.

In future when I had one pts, I always took the others in the cat carrier and they returned with the body and then I'd let them run free at home but leave the carrier open for them to go in and see the body. This appeared to have a much better effect on them and they seemed to understand what had happened.
 
I am in no doubt that Apricot Le BunBun grieved for his brother and sister after they had gone. How much of that was to do with being alone in the rabbit world I don't know but he became withdrawn, disinterested and ate only a little. Our bond became closer but I was no substitute for another bunny.
I think to say that animals don't grieve just because they don't manifest their grief in the same way that humans do is comparable to saying another person can't be grieving just because they don't happen to express their grief in the same way we would xx
 
My Milly is still grieving the loss of Butters, as am I.

Milly won't leave the hunch, she doesn't do anything anymore.. she hides from people etc :cry:
She wasn't like that before Butters died. Can't do anything with her anymore, i thought she was going to wither away too.
 
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