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Simethicone

Dollie

Warren Scout
Using simethicone when your rabbit has gas, yes or no? Or only in some cases? Why, or why not?

edit; Oh, there is no emergency now, I'm just curious. My two sweethearts are 100% okay, thank God.
 
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I have used it just in my pooly bunny who has been so ill for 5-6 days dont know if you read the threads on Toto, but i used it as his tum was so bloated and full of gas i could here the bubbles, i gave 1 ml every hour for 3 hours last night then i have given it him once today, voila my bunny has no more bloated tujm (obviously i am sure the other meds he been on have helped) but he is now pooing YEAH i will def used again if i ever have th go through this again, i feel like i have my old bunny back this eve i am sure he had GI Stasis after reading up on web and links posted on here and i believe that the things i followed as recommended saved his life (infacol form of simethicone as i couldnt find another at the time)

i believe it helped a great deal and would use again if i ever saw these symptoms that he has been having again xxx
 
I find it excellent for gas, although my bun does not get true bloat.
Why? - The gas is caused by fermentation of the ingested food in the gut & froths up. The bun's gut can't move froth onwards easily it squidges around & can get stuck in a bowel loop, causing the bowel to distend & further impairing bowel contraction.
Simethacone is a defoamant, converting the froth to gas which is easy to pass,(as long as the gut is still moving) & liquid contents.
It is not absorbed out of the gut into the bloodstream. It is safe in terms of adverse effects.

I would add that veterinary examination, & additional medication is usually required in bloat, which is a very serious condition.
 
Okay, that's what I thought so to.. Maybe I should have asked, would you use simethicone without consulting a vet first. I personally think the answer to that question is no, but not everyone here (in the Netherlands) agrees, some say it's completely safe, whatever the case is. So I'm still doubting, should I get it for medical emergencies, or not.
 
Okay, that's what I thought so to.. Maybe I should have asked, would you use simethicone without consulting a vet first. I personally think the answer to that question is no, but not everyone here (in the Netherlands) agrees, some say it's completely safe, whatever the case is. So I'm still doubting, should I get it for medical emergencies, or not.

As Simeticone is pretty chemically inert in that it has no side-effects really and is safe to use I would certainly use it if you felt there was a need. However, most situations that require its use are critical/emergency situations of abdominal gas and for this you must always seek veterinary attention as soon as possible anyway. :)
 
Okay, that's what I thought so to.. Maybe I should have asked, would you use simethicone without consulting a vet first. I personally think the answer to that question is no, but not everyone here (in the Netherlands) agrees, some say it's completely safe, whatever the case is. So I'm still doubting, should I get it for medical emergencies, or not.

Both prettylupin & I have buns with different, and frequent long standing tummy problems. Both of us strongly advise that a vet be consulted if your bun shows signs of stasis/bloat, & both of us do so ourselves at the 1st. signs of trouble.

I keep simethocone, & use it when my bun has loud tummy rumbles, but is well in himself, & has no signs of stasis. (Loud tummy rumbles are not normal for HIM) I do so to prevent foam accumulating, distending the gut & causing, pain as well as impairing gut motility. Both of these factors can rapidly precipitate a gasrointestal emergency.

ETA The simethicone is safe, but even if you have a bun who gets frequent bloat/stasis issues you need a vet to diagnose the cause, especially to ensure the bun does not have a blocked gut (obstruction). If the bun is quiet, reduced eating/pooping/ distended/ hunched up grinding teeth I see the vet immediately.
 
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As I said, I will always consult a vet.

The reason some people I know are against just using simethicone, is because 'we' (I'm not a vet, neither are you guys I think? So by we I mean everybody that does have rabbits but is not a vet..) cannot tell WHERE there is gas.. If it is in the stomach or behind an obstruction, using simethicone could be fatal. (Well, that's what they say..)

The discussion was, should you advise people to have it in their 'first aid kit', knowing that they could use it (without consulting a vet!) if they suspect gas. Some say it's okay, there is no risk, others are against.. Don't know who to believe, since they're both reliable sources..
 
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As I said, I will always consult a vet.

The reason some people I know are against just using simethicone, is because 'we' (I'm not a vet, neither are you guys I think? So by we I mean everybody that does have rabbits but is not a vet..) cannot tell WHERE there is gas.. If it is in the stomach or behind an obstruction, using simethicone could be fatal. (Well, that's what they say..)

The discussion was, should you advise people to have it in their 'first aid kit', knowing that they could use it (without consulting a vet!) if they suspect gas. Some say it's okay, there is no risk, others are against.. Don't know who to believe, since they're both reliable sources..

Yes, I advise people to have it in their 1st. aid kit. I also advise people to consult a vet early. It also has a useful place when it will take over an hour to see a vet.
As far as I know, & understand the action of Simethicone, it is safe to give it in obstruction.
The drugs which are not safe in obstruction, & could rupture the bowel, are those which stimulate gut movement, the most commonly used in the UK being Metaclopramide & Ranitidine.
Perhaps you could post the link to the reputable information to the contrary.

[You are correct that I am not a vet. I was a doctor of medicine, now retired, & am fully aware that the rabbit GI system is totally different from ours. Most of my understanding of rabbit GI tract derives from discussions with a very good rabbit specialist vet. at an exotics referral center. On this forum I try to use terms which are readily understood by all]
 
I could post the link, but I don't think that'll help, since it is all in Dutch..

There seems to be some disagreement about the way simethicone works as well. Some say it makes one big bubble out of many small ones and others say it does the exact opposite thing, make a lot of small bubbles out of a big one.

We use Primperid (which is the same as metoclopramide, I believe) and Cisaral to stimulate the gut movement. I never heard of Ranitidine though.

edit; Thank God for Google.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simethicone It does make one big bubble out of smaller ones..

The problem with that is, if there is gas behind an obstruction or in the stomach and the simethicone starts to work, you have a big bubble of gas behind that obstruction or in the stomach, which is anything but good.. I mean, I can imagine that could cause the bowel to rupture as well.. That kinda is the summary of what people who are against using simethicone without consulting a vet, say. At least, if my translation is correct.
 
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I could post the link, but I don't think that'll help, since it is all in Dutch..

There seems to be some disagreement about the way simethicone works as well. Some say it makes one big bubble out of many small ones and others say it does the exact opposite thing, make a lot of small bubbles out of a big one.

We use Primperid (which is the same as metoclopramide, I believe) and Cisaral to stimulate the gut movement. I never heard of Ranitidine though.

edit; Thank God for Google.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simethicone It does make one big bubble out of smaller ones..

The problem with that is, if there is gas behind an obstruction or in the stomach and the simethicone starts to work, you have a big bubble of gas behind that obstruction or in the stomach, which is anything but good.. I mean, I can imagine that could cause the bowel to rupture as well.. That kinda is the summary of what people who are against using simethicone without consulting a vet, say. At least, if my translation is correct.

No, it does not cause the bowel to rupture, because the total volume is the same. ETA converting the small foamy bubbles toa single gas bubble makes it easier to get rid of when the obstruction moves. Also foam can fill a loop of bowel & behave like an obstruction. Again this will be relieved when converted to a single gas pocket.

As a last resort to treat gas in the stomach some vets pass a tube into the stomach. My vet speaks of a technical problem that the diameter of the tube has to be small for a rabbit. It can often block with foamed up stomach contents ( the stomach continues to produce liquid acids & enzymes during bloat).

In man with an upright posture, the single gas bubble would rise to the top, & could be relieved by a burp which rabbits can't do.

I honestly don't know whether it is possible to direct a stomach tube into a gas pocket for buns. I do know that the results of surgery for rabbits, even putting a needle directly into the stomach are very poor, even in the best hands.

The only draw back I can think of in theory, is that the human preparations of simethicone are sweetened (sodium saccharin in infacol). I do not know whether saccharin can be used as a "food" by bacteria, but there is a surfeit of food for bacteria already present in the gut contents. Only an experienced rabbit vet can advise you on what must be a very small risk, in comparison to the benefits in this situation
I understand that unsweetened Simethicone can be procured from USA.

I feel strongly that we must distinguish between any adverse effects from Simethicone itself, & the adverse effects of owners lulled into a false sense of security & therefore seeking veterinary advice later than they may have done so. The best outcome for bloat is obtained by seeking veterinary advice early.

My opinion remains the same. Yes Simethicone is useful, AND seek veterinary advice. Never ever underestimate the potential seriousness of a GI disorder in buns.

There are some buns who get gas without stasis easily, often due to an accidental high intake of starch/sugars. Some members of the cabbage family (brassicas) are well known. In fact a bumpy car ride to the vet often helps them to pass it, so when you get there you have a perfectly well rabbit.:oops:
You get to know your rabbit as an individual. ;)
 
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Although you have not asked, it is equally important to encourage your rabbit to hop around, or dig in the garden, to help them pass gas, if they are well enough. Poor things there's only one way out for gas, all the way through the bowel & out at the bottom end.:(
 
I know what to do when my buns have gas, my bun Indy has had stasis a few times and died of acute bloath. I will always contact my vet immediatly and I have a first aid kit. I'm still doubting whether I should add simethicon to that or not. I'm still not convinced it's completely harmless. :oops: but I'd feel so bad if they'd die and this could have saved them.. Or the other way, they could have been saved but this killed them..

But I hope I'll never need it.

edit; The bowel rupturing was my own thought, the exact translation of what could happen is that when you have a big gasbubble behind an obstruction, it puts too much pressure on the bowel. If the gas is in the stomach, the big bubble will not be able to go anywhere. They say the stomach can explode if that happends..
 
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I am so sorry that you lost Indy from bloat. You did so well to get Indy through several stasis episodes.
I can empathise with your deep anxieties about having to manage bloat again in the future. I sincerely hope that such an event will not arise.

I have no further information to help you. Perhaps your best option is to discuss it with your vet say at a routine immunisation/health check.
 
Thank you, I will do that. They still need their vaccinations anyways, had that planned for a few weeks ago but Feline was false pregnant for the second time in a month and she was getting meaner and meaner, so I had her done first, can't do both at the same time..

Indy was in so much pain before he died, we had to wait like three hours to get to a vet and it got worse and worse and worse, after that I got painmeds right away, to never let this happen again.
 
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