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couple of questions about EC

Luciuslop

Alpha Buck
One of my buns has suspected EC. His symptoms when first presented were very severe and both vets he saw were very doubtful about any kind of recovery:(. One vet wanted to call it a day there and then.

However, almost 4 weeks later he is making slow, but steady progress. He still has a head tilt, which I'm guessing will be permanent, but he is falling over less, is more active and seems more like his old self. His right eye is slightly opened up now, although he doesn't appear to have any sight in that eye. His appetite has improved, he is eating a normal diet again and has regained the weight he lost :D.

Those of you who have had/have buns with EC ..... did your buns make a full or partial recovery and how long was the recovery process ? Did they remain EC free afterwards ? From what I have read buns with EC can relapse after treatment has been stopped :(.
 
My bun became paralysed one day due to EC. He got a steriod injection, some kindof antbiotic injection and a 28 course of panacur and a course of antibiotics.

He recovered almost fully about 4 days later, was fine for a few days and became paralysed again. Was given another steriod injection and recoverd again after a few days.

He is fine now two weeks later and hasent collapsed again, at the moment we are just trying to get his weight up. Still continuing with the Panacur aswell.
 
I'm guessing you are talking about head tilt from what you are saying about the eye, but if you're not, then feel free to discard this reply :)

My rabbit had head tilt, and we never treated for EC because someone I know and trust taught me that active EC does not show up as head tilt. What it does is lower the immune system, which can cause infections.

We treated her for an infection (even though none were visible, because they are not always visible to the naked eye) and she had Convenia injections, but because her previous owners didn't treat the infection fast enough (she was sezied by the RSPCA and I had her from there), she was left with a small residual tilt but never showed any signs of active EC. Her whole condition improved beyond belief though. She had a lovely life until she died from an unrelated problem (we suspect secondary metastases of uterine cancer because she was pretty old when spayed). She sometimes needed slight environment adjustments, but for all intents and purposes was a regular rabbit- she certainly had the cheeky personality, and that was never lost. (you can see her here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBTwHDwZC5s )

I learnt all this from a bloke off of a different forum, and then worked with my vet. He has been working closely with vets investigating EC in the US, and the knowledge is more uptodate than that of most that is over here (i.e. the RWA EC article uses sources from 2001 and 2004), hence why my views on EC often completely differ from what people say on here.


ETA- I'm not suggesting you should change what treatment your bunny is on, or go against your vet or anything, just explaining what we did with your bunny and why.
 
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Mischa had head tilt and EC. He now shows no visible symptoms apart from a dewlap despite being a good weight, which I am certain is where the skin was stretched.

I took a long while (about a couple of weeks) before he started showing improvement and after that it was still a long battle. He showed sudden symptoms mid June and was much better by end of July. So about 6 weeks it took for him to recover.
 
Thanks for the replies :D

I asked the second vet ( a small animal specialist ) for a blood test to confirm EC. His reply was that a blood test would reveal if Theo has been exposed to EC, but not reveal if EC is the cause of his problems. He did say that his symptoms are more consistent with EC than anything else that causes head tilt. I don't know enough about EC to argue the point as to whether a test was neccessary. Most of what I've read says it is. The fact that symptoms appeared when he needed a dental seems to have been the stresser. He had a skull x-ray done at the time of his dental and this revealed no sign of middle ear infection.

He is currently taking Panacur, Baytril, Metacam and Stemetil - its a wonder he doesn't slosh with all that liquid going in. I did ask about steroid jabs, but he didn't think it was a good idea to weaken an already compromised immune system. However, it seems a lot of EC buns have been given steroid injections, so I'm a little confused on that point. To be perfectly honest I don't think nither vet Theo saw thought there was much point in treating him. I was told by the first vet that I was fighting a losing battle and should call it a day :( I'm glad I didn't.

I am worried about his right eye. I noticed that it is open slightly now and again, but he has no sight in that eye. He has learned to adapt remarkably well and I see him managing to wash himself now without falling over. Someone on another forum mentioned treating for 8 weeks instead of 4. Does anyone have anything further to add to this, please ?
 
I did ask about steroid jabs, but he didn't think it was a good idea to weaken an already compromised immune system. However, it seems a lot of EC buns have been given steroid injections, so I'm a little confused on that point.

That is why my lad was on the baytril, he got the steriod injection to reduce the inflamation (as its an antiflamitry) in the brain as the EC was causing it to be inflamed. the inflamation made him collapse/stumble. The steriod injection did compromise his immune system but as I said that was why he was given the course of antibiotics. The vet did say its a double edged sword.
 
We have a headtilt bun Wilson. He became very poorly last April with headtilt - which we didn't find the exact cause of :( However, very long story short - we had Wilson on all sorts of different meds.

To start off with he was just on baytril (antibiotics), panacur & metacam - this was when his head was only slightly tilted. He then got progressively worse & his tilt changed sides - it was so bad his down eye was almost horizontal to the floor. We then changed him to steroid injections, depocillin injections & panacur - again sadly these did nothing for him.

He was having severe rolling episodes & we had to confine him to a padded cage for around 6 weeks. Eventually after bunny mad lisa on RU suggested it - we talked to our vet about Zithromax - it's an antibiotic that is used for humans & not licensed for rabbits, but Lisa had, had great results with it her for her headtilt bunny - so we felt we had no options left but to try it.

We switched him onto Zithromax & also started him on stemetil (human anti sickness drug) - continued with his panacur & I *think* his steroid injections. After just over a week of this treatment he was well enough to come out of his cage & go back with his partner Alice. We'd kept them in the same room at all times, but had to confine Wilson to a cage so he didn't hurt himself or Alice.

I have been told & read that the best way to deal with headtilt is to treat with as much strength of medication as possible - I think basically to try to beat the infection before it gets worse.

Wilson's original thread is below - warning though it is very long, as we had another 2 sick buns at the time :oops:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=178735&highlight=Wilsons+headtilt

I don't know if any of this will help, but it might be worth mentioning the drugs we used to your vet to ask their views.

Wilson still has a very tilted head but he lives life to the full & bombs around their bedroom like a good un :love: He's perfectly normal in every way except for his wonky view of the world ;)

Wilson's down eye flared up with a bad infection at Christmas - but touch wood apart from that, he's not needed anymore meds to date :)

I really hope your bun will be ok, sending them lots & lots of vibes & hoping they'll be better soon xxx
 
Thanks for the replies :D

I asked the second vet ( a small animal specialist ) for a blood test to confirm EC. His reply was that a blood test would reveal if Theo has been exposed to EC, but not reveal if EC is the cause of his problems. He did say that his symptoms are more consistent with EC than anything else that causes head tilt. I don't know enough about EC to argue the point as to whether a test was neccessary. Most of what I've read says it is. The fact that symptoms appeared when he needed a dental seems to have been the stresser. He had a skull x-ray done at the time of his dental and this revealed no sign of middle ear infection.

He is currently taking Panacur, Baytril, Metacam and Stemetil - its a wonder he doesn't slosh with all that liquid going in. I did ask about steroid jabs, but he didn't think it was a good idea to weaken an already compromised immune system. However, it seems a lot of EC buns have been given steroid injections, so I'm a little confused on that point. To be perfectly honest I don't think nither vet Theo saw thought there was much point in treating him. I was told by the first vet that I was fighting a losing battle and should call it a day :( I'm glad I didn't.

I am worried about his right eye. I noticed that it is open slightly now and again, but he has no sight in that eye. He has learned to adapt remarkably well and I see him managing to wash himself now without falling over. Someone on another forum mentioned treating for 8 weeks instead of 4. Does anyone have anything further to add to this, please ?

From what I understand, a blood test wouldn't really be worth doing as it's believed 50% of rabbits carry EC bugs, it just only becomes a full blown illness in a very small percentage, often triggered by stress - such as Theo's dental. I think I was responsible for triggering Jess's EC. I tripped over her a gave her quite a swift boot to the head. :oops::(

I don't know much about steroid injections. All my vet would agree to perscribe for Jess was Panacur and Meloxodyl (and I had to pretty much beg for the Meloxodyl!). She had no steroids or antibiotics or anything else. Thankfully, the meds she had did their job. I know the Meloxodyl (basically the same as Metacam) is used to try and slow/stop cellular damage which leads to the head tilt and other symptoms becoming permanent. I don't think buns are actually in pain with EC, just very very disorientated.

My vet actually wrongly told me to put Jess on a nine day course of Panacur. :shock: Having already had an EC bunny PTS by the same vet that told me nine days was a sufficient course, I chose to ignore him this time and continued Panacur and Meloxodyl for the standard 28 days. On day 28, Jess was still very wobbly and I took the desision to continue her meds for another two weeks. Thankfully, she was back to her usual self by the time the extra two weeks were up but if she had still been wonky, I think I would have continued the medication for another two weeks. I didn't take her back to the vet the whole time she was ill, even when she was fitting, as I knew stress just made her worse. I kept her as quiet as possible and I didn't even pick her up to give her medicine, I just pushed her gently into a corner and did it in her cage. Jess had eye drops for her eye that faced the floor too. I think it's a common symptom of the illness for the rabbit to loose their vision sadly. :(

I hope Theo is doing alright today! :wave:
 
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