Bonding 2 pairs into a foursome - Bad start

Ok, so I have recently aquired 2 new bunnies, a bonded pair called Ben and Belle. Ideally I'd like to bond them with my exisiting pair, Teddy and Lola. On Sunday I brought them all inside and had them in adjacent cages. They were all interested in each other, sniffing at bars etc. The boys in each pair chased their respective girls a bit and did a bit of nipping and fur pulling but nothing serious. I swapped them between cages at bedtime to get them more used to each other's smells and all was still going fine the next morning.

I then moved them outside (one of the indoor cages is not suitable for them to be in for any length of time). Outside each pair had one level of the hutch and half the run, so they could see each other but were still separated by mesh. So the set up was the same as indoors, only each pair had more space. They all seemed reasonably happy-Ben kept chasing Belle from time to time but not enough to concern me.

This morning however, I came down to find LOADS of fur in Ben and Belle's run (mainly all Belles). When I checked them Ben also has a small scratch in his ear. I brought them back inside as had to go to work and didn't want Ben to torment her more while I was out. Belle doesn't seem afraid of him when he's not chasing her or really hurt but there was definately WAY too much fur to ignore.

So my question is, what do I do now? It seems to early to give up on the bonding and there hasn't been any real agression between the pairs but seeing other bunnies is clearly making Ben dominate Belle so much that she must be miserable. As they are already separate when outside I'm not sure how I can let them get more used to each other without Ben hurting Belle in the process. I could separate the runs so they can't see each other, although they would still be able to smell each other. Or I could try just doing a few hours in adjacent runs at a time but not sure if this would be like them starting afresh each time they see each other?

Any ideas very welcome.

Rowan x

I don't know but I'm just posting in this thread as I'd like to read the answers as I keep contemplating bonding my pairs.

Sorry I can't help!

We are no experts but have just gone through rebonding with our two.

OUr first couple of attempts failed but I believe now that it was because we were seperating too much during fights.

We set aside this whole weekend and sat and watched them. I know there are far more experienced people on here who will offer advise, all I can suggest is you have time and patience and listen to the brilliant advise given out on this site.

Please see our thread for how we coped/faired

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=226606

Think I'll wait until the weekend when I can try them next to each other again with more supervision. I can sit out with them during the day and if all goes well, bring them in overnight so I can sleep near them. I guess if they're only in the small cage overnight it won't be so bad, or I can rig up some sort of pen around it.

so you haven put them all together yet? they are still seperated by mesh??

You will find they may react differently when together - you might find they swap partners like mine have!

My pair had a big fight a while back when one of my single girls was in their space - they didnt see her just the smell of her set them off!!! so I think the face they can see and smell each othe but cant get to each other may be worse for the already established pair - I am no way an expert though!

I have Pmd you back x

I think you should probably separate the couples so they cant see or smell each other until you are ready to bond, then all in together in a small neutral space.Sometimes just the smell of another bunny is enough to make an established couple squabble.

Yes, they have only seen each other through mesh so far. They have been completely separate since the fall out the other morning (Ben and Belle are indoors, Teddy and Lola outside).

Tonight I tried introducing the two girls on their own (as they are both the submissive buns in their partnerships and hadn't shown any agression to each other). I did it in neutral territory. For the first 2 minutes everything went fine, both girls ignored each other and explored their surroundings. Then they went up to sniff each other and Belle gave Lola a nip on her back. Lola jumped away and when they came back together for another sniff they exploded into a whirl of claws and fur. I separated them and took them back to their men. Really thought those two would be nice to each other. The only good thing is I saw how much fur can be created from one tussle, which made me feel better about the other fight I didn't see the other night.

Perhaps I should have done all 4 together, just not sure if I can face it!

Rowan said:

Think I'll wait until the weekend when I can try them next to each other again with more supervision. I can sit out with them during the day and if all goes well, bring them in overnight so I can sleep near them. I guess if they're only in the small cage overnight it won't be so bad, or I can rig up some sort of pen around it.

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If you are bonding a foursome leave yourselves at least 72 hours where you are doing nothing else but looking after your rabbits, if you havent the time at the moment leave it until you do.

I would advise against having them in one place during the day time and then bringing them indoors overnight. I always keep them in one place until I am happy with them and then slowly start expanding their space. Moving them about too early will often end up with domination battles.

If you're bonding a 4 then do all bunnies at the same time.The group dynamics change every time a bunny is added so less stressful for them being bonded straight into a 4 than doing pairs then a 4. You'll need nerves of steel and a good few days free as you'll have to sit with them incase they fight.Dont keep separating them once they are together-leave them together as each time you introduce them they have to work out dominance etc

Thanks for your replies - when the time comes then I will make a new pen indoors so I can sleep with then and not have to move them about.

When I do have time to put them together as a four, assuming they start fighting, should I separate the fighting two physically by a barrier for a while or should I just separate them temporarily within the bonding space, e.g. push them apart with a broom, then let them free again?

I don't want to keep stressing them and making them "start again" by reintroducing them repeatedly but if they keep going for each other is it ok to just keep pushing them apart? Lola and Belle looked so bewildered and exhausted after their little scuffle I would feel but mean leaving them in that situation or is that part of the process?

Rowan said:

Thanks for your replies - when the time comes then I will make a new pen indoors so I can sleep with then and not have to move them about.

When I do have time to put them together as a four, assuming they start fighting, should I separate the fighting two physically by a barrier for a while or should I just separate them temporarily within the bonding space, e.g. push them apart with a broom, then let them free again?

I don't want to keep stressing them and making them "start again" by reintroducing them repeatedly but if they keep going for each other is it ok to just keep pushing them apart? Lola and Belle looked so bewildered and exhausted after their little scuffle I would feel but mean leaving them in that situation or is that part of the process?

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This is what I do when ever I bond, I count slowly to 10 and then release.

Thanks, if I can face having another go sometime I will keep you all posted!