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Hugo's There
03-05-2010, 12:10 PM
Once a rabbit has been diagnosed with this, is their liver function permanently damaged, or is it able to repair itself?

All I can find reading around the subject is what it is and how to prevent it, nothing about recovery as the books seem to assume the rabbit doesn't pull through :?

prettylupin
03-05-2010, 12:18 PM
The liver has superb regenerative properties, of all the organs. But as far as I can remember from human medicine, fatty liver is pretty irreversible. I hope someone corrects me to the contrary.

I hope one of your buns is ok Liz?

*goes off to dig out pathology textbook and have a look*

Hugo's There
03-05-2010, 12:23 PM
The liver has superb regenerative properties, of all the organs. But as far as I can remember from human medicine, fatty liver is pretty irreversible. I hope someone corrects me to the contrary.

I hope one of your buns is ok Liz?

*goes off to dig out pathology textbook and have a look*

Its a new bunny we have arriving tomorrow as an emergency which was handed in to a vets. Bloods showed hepatic lipidosis and leucopenia. He was starved due to severe dental problems and is 9 years old :(

prettylupin
03-05-2010, 12:31 PM
Poor bunster :cry: So glad he is finding his way to you. :)

I was wrong I think.... just shows how little I can remember now... I shouldn't have answered your post... :oops: It would appear that the changes that occur with fatty liver are not precirrhotic and can disappear... although other changes that 'may' occur involving collagen formation as part of the process may lead to cirrhotic changes and cell damage. BUT bunnies are very different to us and generally fatty liver in humans I remember being mainly attributable to alcohol. I think starvation is another cause in humans ... but in rabbits the whole process will be SO different no doubt... very often there is no comparison between us. :oops:
Hopefully someone with FAR more knowledge and experience will be able to answer your question. I'm sorry if I have just confused you :oops: I have confused myself also! I will leave these posts to the experts in future.

Whatever happens, I'm certain this bun will have a profoundly different and happy life with you :)

thumps_
03-05-2010, 12:49 PM
I'll try to find out for you Hugo's There.
I DO know that milk thistle seeds are very helpful in supporting the liver to recovery. They can be bought as a herbal preparation in shops. Parsnip bun is the expert about bunny wild plants which can make a massive difference to bunny recovery.

VikkiVet
03-05-2010, 12:56 PM
Likewise not an expert on this. Hepatic lipidosis tends to part of severe/end-stage liver disease and associated with jaundice, hepatic encephalopathy (neurological changes with liver disease), and liver failure. In terms of progression/recovery it depends on duration and extent. But if its due to starvation rather than primary liver disease (i.e. breakdown of body stores as fuel source) then its more likely to be recoverable. Lipidosis may lead to fibrosis so that reduces liver function overall and makes the animal more susceptible to other liver problems. So it depends on the clinical signs attributable to the lipidosis.
If the dental issues are fixed and she eats and puts on weight then the lipidosis may not improve but may not progress either, so if she can be stable and happy as she is then its not a recovery but not a death sentence either. Hope that makes sense?

Hugo's There
03-05-2010, 01:22 PM
Thank you for all your very useful replies.

Diagnosis was made 2 weeks ago and he had a successful conscious dental and appears to be recovering well. :)

As vikki says I am hoping the while it may not improve it also wont progress :?

Hugo's There
04-05-2010, 05:44 PM
I spoke to the vet about this and she is pretty confident that if the original problem that caused the lipidosis has been fixed and the bunny continues on a good diet then the liver has a good chance of regeneration :)

VikkiVet
04-05-2010, 05:51 PM
Yay! :D

thumps_
04-05-2010, 06:18 PM
Thank you for telling us Hugo's There.
That's really good news for all of us.
You could do with a break!

Hugo's There
04-05-2010, 06:32 PM
Thank you for telling us Hugo's There.
That's really good news for all of us.
You could do with a break!

Don't get too excited , he also has breathing problems, dental problems and a heart condition plus what ever is causing the leucopenia :?

But at least that is one less thing to worry about.

He also has the cutest face from the picture I have seen of him, and that is much more important than his health problems :D:love:

thumps_
04-05-2010, 06:36 PM
Don't get too excited , he also has breathing problems, dental problems and a heart condition plus what ever is causing the leucopenia :?

But at least that is one less thing to worry about.

He also has the cutest face from the picture I have seen of him, and that is much more important than his health problems :D:love:

Oh Liz the poor bun!! I honestly don't know how you keep going. Just 1 little fella keeps me fully occupied, & frazzles my nerves.

prettylupin
04-05-2010, 06:43 PM
Good news about the hepatic lipidosis - something definitely worth knowing. Hope that bun can get back on her feet once she arrives. :)

Hugo's There
04-05-2010, 07:10 PM
He's called Harvey, so look out for pictures later in the week :)

He was supposed to be arriving tonight but we have postponed for a couple of days after loosing Maisey so suddenly and we have Dave's op tomorrow.

We want it to be a happy time when he arrives :D

he actually reminds me very much of Timmy to look at so I have to keep telling myself not to expect to much of him, as its not fair on Harvey :love:

rodneyvet
05-05-2010, 09:25 AM
hepatic lipidosis is usually caused by mobilisation of fat reserves following a period of anorexia. The fat is deposited in liver cells and liver failure is caused by the physical presence of fat droplets in the cells taking up all the space so the cell cannot function normally. Evidence of lipidosis can be seen after only 2 days of anorexia in rabbits. The use of fat as a fuel source has long term issues as these rabbits produce chemicals called ketones as the end product of fat metabolism. ketones are toxic to rabbits and cause ketosis, resulting in the rabbit becoming depressed, weak and anorexic. If the underlying causes are treated, hepatic lipidosis is treatable in the early stages. If left, then archetectural changes in the liver will disrupt its fibrous frame work and cirrhosis will commence. However if it is left this long, the ketosis exhibited at the same time will be fatal to the rabbit. Cases of hepatic lipidosis in rabbits require aggressive fluid and supportive therapy with serial blood sampling to monitor progress
Hope this helps

Dobbin
05-05-2010, 09:42 AM
Sending lots of positive vibes to you and also hugs.

Sue
xx

Hugo's There
05-05-2010, 10:38 AM
hepatic lipidosis is usually caused by mobilisation of fat reserves following a period of anorexia. The fat is deposited in liver cells and liver failure is caused by the physical presence of fat droplets in the cells taking up all the space so the cell cannot function normally. Evidence of lipidosis can be seen after only 2 days of anorexia in rabbits. The use of fat as a fuel source has long term issues as these rabbits produce chemicals called ketones as the end product of fat metabolism. ketones are toxic to rabbits and cause ketosis, resulting in the rabbit becoming depressed, weak and anorexic. If the underlying causes are treated, hepatic lipidosis is treatable in the early stages. If left, then archetectural changes in the liver will disrupt its fibrous frame work and cirrhosis will commence. However if it is left this long, the ketosis exhibited at the same time will be fatal to the rabbit. Cases of hepatic lipidosis in rabbits require aggressive fluid and supportive therapy with serial blood sampling to monitor progress
Hope this helps

Thank you, he has survived nearly a month since diagnosis and treatment so hopefully he is Ok.

Maybe we will get repeated bloods done when he arrives to see what the situation is now :)