Bonding update...good news & bad news.... gizmo got injured :(

Hi all sorry this is going to be a long post.

Right well i will start with Gizmo lionlop/angora [neutered 2year old male] & alex netherland dwarf/dutch [neutered 1yr old female]

I am trying to pair these two up as gizmo has had his insizers out [dental bunny] and vet advised getting him a bunny wife to help with grooming etc . Well we started well the usual swapping hutches etc being near each other with meshbetween for two weeks,,, all was good they would sit with each other etc but then we tried the bonding in neuteral area... and fur flew... from gizmo. He jumped up on my husbands lap and tried to hide away. We are very worried for him as he doesn't have teeth to defend himself. Anyway we contiued to try bonding everyday for at least five mins and some days they sniff each other annd seem fine but there is always some fur flying... gizmo tries to fight back but hasn't worked out he hasn't got teeth. He shows no interest in mounting her or licking but will try and lay near her and sniff.... where as alex will sniff gizmo but if he dare move or look away she lunges at him. But then today when i tried gizmo kept charging her... i am not sure if the amount of fur flying is normal or not as when we seperate them with the mesh between them they sit next to each other fine. :?


Then Yoshi & tiggs... [yoshi 3year old neutered male lionlop tiggs 8mth old neutered female lionlop x]
Now yoshi has always been a bit of a handful [was aggresive towards me before he was neutered] however when we tried these two Tiggs let him mount her twice !! then she mounted him :shock: and then there was a bit of fur flying and i must admit we panicked and seperated them. So today i tried again and this time yoshi tapped and made a oink noise and seemed scared :? But i stuck with it and sure enough they had a good sniff and then more fur flying [no mounting today]..... Is all this behaviour good signs or bad and are we doing things right. I am terrified of them getting injured so please advise. They are all my babies and i just want them to be happy together :roll:

first of all id give a break for these two away from sniffing distance to calm any issues,

female nethie dutch blimey common fiesty breeds on there own let alone crossed ( yes before i get swatted with a bat, i do know some loverly female dutches and females nethies, ) I just know more feisty ones :lol:

then for you 2 some good wine :lol:

can i ask when were they exactly neutered ?

you trying to do 2 pairs or a group ??

hi :lol:

Right well gizmo was neutered when he was about 8mths old [so over a year ago] and yoshi was the same [i had these too from babies] but tiggs and alex i don't know exactly when but i know they had only been in the rescue from feb/beginning of march and they both have bold patches on there tummys so i am guessing fairly recently although no sign of a wound etc :?

I am doing two pairs not one big group... i thought gizmo was female when i got him and he was going to be bonded with yoshi.... well you can guess how that went :roll: :lol: soon realized he was a male :lol:

As for netherland cross dutch she is quite fisty.... she seemed really nervous and placid but she can be quite... well fisty... also could it be a jealousy thing as all four of them are very well bonded with me and all seem to run to me when they are scared or had enough :? help.......please

yoshi&gizmo said:

hi :lol:

Right well gizmo was neutered when he was about 8mths old [so over a year ago] and yoshi was the same [i had these too from babies] but tiggs and alex i don't know exactly when but i know they had only been in the rescue from feb/beginning of march and they both have bold patches on there tummys so i am guessing fairly recently although no sign of a wound etc :?

I am doing two pairs not one big group... i thought gizmo was female when i got him and he was going to be bonded with yoshi.... well you can guess how that went :roll: :lol: soon realized he was a male :lol:

As for netherland cross dutch she is quite fisty.... she seemed really nervous and placid but she can be quite... well fisty... also could it be a jealousy thing as all four of them are very well bonded with me and all seem to run to me when they are scared or had enough :? help.......please

Click to expand...

bare with me i may get brain mush ( blaming on pregnancy :lol: ) doing two pairs at the same time, brave very brave :lol:


can i ask why not do a group ??

I might just want to start from the beggining,
firstly you need time to monitor them for at least 48 hours, so really this cant be done outside and its deffinatly not fair to seperate for the night only to start all again in the morning
has to be neutral
has to be small or confinded ( sounds cruel but better in long run )
ideally pairs not near each other definatly not next to , an even block off veiw,
area cleaned in 50/50 vinegar solution to neutralise smells
toys are ok as long as cleaned,
a litter tray
newspaper hay water bottles

right thats first stage, how much of that have you done on that list, and ill see if there anything you can improve on wjat youve already got before we move onto buns

areia said:

bare with me i may get brain mush ( blaming on pregnancy :lol: ) doing two pairs at the same time, brave very brave :lol:


can i ask why not do a group ??

I might just want to start from the beggining,
firstly you need time to monitor them for at least 48 hours, so really this cant be done outside and its deffinatly not fair to seperate for the night only to start all again in the morning
has to be neutral
has to be small or confinded ( sounds cruel but better in long run )
ideally pairs not near each other definatly not next to , an even block off veiw,
area cleaned in 50/50 vinegar solution to neutralise smells
toys are ok as long as cleaned,
a litter tray
newspaper hay water bottles

right thats first stage, how much of that have you done on that list, and ill see if there anything you can improve on wjat youve already got before we move onto buns

Click to expand...

:lol: Congrats on the pregnancy. :wave: I can't do one big group as yoshi and gizmo detest each other.... i do believe these pair would fight to the death :shock: also with gizmo being a gummy bunny he may not stant a good chance against yoshi

Right well this is what i have done so far with both pairs :shock:

* monitored for two weeks [mesh seperating them]
* swapped litter trays and blankets etc
* the pairs can see / smell each other at night but not the other pair
* introductions minus mesh are done in my hallway [neuteral terretory] with scattered food and hay

You need a very small, neutral area, like an indoor cage or small pen, food for distraction and a spray bottle at hand. Your area for bonding needs to be very small with no litter tray or toys. Also have an old trainer at hand to separate fights. Mounting, chasing and fur pulling are all ok but I always discourage front mounting as bits can be bitten! I've bonded successfully 5 times doing this.

:roll: hi the area i am bonding in [my hall way] is about 2.5ft by 5ft i do have the water sprayer ready but it doesn't seem to phase them. And i have welding gloves in case a full blown fight breaks out. :roll:

Just stick with it, I know it's scary the first time. Are you actually bonding now? What are they doing?

update on bonding good and bad news

Hi again

Well todays bonding session with gizmo and alex ended in injury gizmo has a tear in one ear and a bite on the other Went vets as there was lots of blood but no stiches needed as i had managed to stop the bleeding before i got there . He is on baytril just to be safe though. Vet recommends going back a step and keep them divided with mesh but let them sniff/see each other She said not to give up home yet.


Now the good news.... Yoshi & tiggs are doing great... gave them the whole house to play in today ,,,,,,and...... the session ended with two bunnies sat under the table next to each other. The odd nip for yoshi if he tried mounting but apart from that there was no aggression and lots of nuzzling So things are looking good there. How long before these two can live together in the same hutch?

Good news kind of then! Well done! Sorry about Gizmo and Alex, I have to say I disagree with your vet about separating them by mesh right now though. They will remember the agression at the moment so I would separate them entirely (different rooms) for a few days while they forget their ordeal.

Hi! I'm keeping an eye on your progress as it sounds very similar to my Fudge and Smokey ordeal!

Sorry to hear poor Gizmo got hurt, glad he is ok though.

I too had a session ending in injury last night Fudge bit Smokey's neck and pulled fur out and a layer of skin (ouch!) As was no blood i bathed last night and am keeping an eye on today, I called vet and they said to keep clean and we have an appointment to see vet tomorrow eve to check it out and hopefully remove excess skin that has come off (gross!) Will keep you updated. We too have gone back to seeing each other through mesh and indoor run. As Fudge is quite aggressive, i have decided to keep to this for at least a week, I don't want any more injuries and feel it is better safe than sorry... am I wrong??!

My water spray however does seem to work, but Fudge just ends up like a drowned rat after 5mins!!

Let me know any tricks you try that seem to help - does Alex try to bite through the wire too? Or does she seem quite happy in there? x

If they are trying to bite through the wire you need to keep them completely away from each other so they can forget the aggression or you will make it harder for yourself. Good luck!

Hi,

I see there are 2 thread very similar so will jump on this if I can.

Our two are full sisters and were great until about 1 month ago. We put it down to hormones (they were speyed 2 weeks ago) and dominance and were advised to seperate them to forget their previous agressive behavior.

With the whether being nicer we have been putting them (and sitting with them) in the garden (neautral), 1 in the run and 1 outside. This seemed to be ok, both had enough to keep them interested and they would even sit near each other through the wire (although Pinky would Thump every now and again for apparently no reason).

Today however they managed to get to each other and it appeared utter madness. They seemed to go at each other with all fours, scrapping biting and fur flying. Although this wasn't intentional on our part I am now worried that bondong will be impossible due to the agressive nature of the fighting.

Our plan is to

1) seperate them for 2 weeks completely. Seperate trip to garden etc
2) Introduce through wire as before for 2 weeks.
3) Attempt bondong in out door pen.

I have seen the advise to do this in a confined space but (and it is prob my inexperience) I am worried that the fighting may be worse.

Are they bondable or do some just take a dislike t each other. I am willing to work at this long term but it is upsetting Fi as the fighting appeares to be effecting their personalities.

Sorry to hijack your post and I hope for happy resolutions for all

Just want to add, when I did my first bond I did it in the bathroom (far too big a space) with two very human friendly buns, it was utter chaos! Locked on fighting, both had bite marks and fur everywhere. I got scratched and bitten and they were locked on at the neck with full on kicking. I was horrified but then things calmed a little and I put them in a dog crate, after that they had the closest bond I've ever seen with two bunnies and it was awful when one of them died. There is definitely hope no matter what happens!

hi

Well i took gizmo to the vets with injuries after his violent ordeal with his [hopefully] future bunny wife thinking the same as you.... it will never happen now with this much violence.... However my vet said its just going to take longer [although some pairs don't ever get on]... I have been advised to go back a stage and to keep them apart for a while so the violence can be forgotten.... so don't give up hope just yet.... she said to me some bondings are instant some take days weeks or even months.... My other two are fine already so its not anything to do with the way i am bonding its just the characters of the indivdual rabbits..:roll:

Smokey also took a trip to the vet's with her injury, the skin had basically torn off a little with the fur, it wasn't even that bad clean, healing on it's own nicely etc, They gave her a metacam injection after they'd prodded and poked and shaved fur from her face to get a better look, they then cut off the dead 'skin flap' with some scissors, have to say i had to look away at this point...! But all ok now. However, £52 later & Fudge is not my favourite bunny in the world!!

The only worry I have with my vet is that they really don't seem to know anything about bunnies really... the quote I got last night was 'Are you really attached to her already? You might have to give her back coz i wouldn't hold your breath for them to bond, unless they're litter mates or very young, it's nigh on impossible to introduce them!!' Which is clearly rubbish reading all the advice on here and knowing the RSPCA bond practically every rabbit that comes into their care!!

Keep me updated on all your progress, we've had a few days apart and i'm starting again tomorrow with through the run sessions over the weekend. I think it will just take a lot longer than a few weeks and i have to remember to be patient!! x

Charlotte1984 said:

Smokey also took a trip to the vet's with her injury, the skin had basically torn off a little with the fur, it wasn't even that bad clean, healing on it's own nicely etc, They gave her a metacam injection after they'd prodded and poked and shaved fur from her face to get a better look, they then cut off the dead 'skin flap' with some scissors, have to say i had to look away at this point...! But all ok now. However, £52 later & Fudge is not my favourite bunny in the world!!

The only worry I have with my vet is that they really don't seem to know anything about bunnies really... the quote I got last night was 'Are you really attached to her already? You might have to give her back coz i wouldn't hold your breath for them to bond, unless they're litter mates or very young, it's nigh on impossible to introduce them!!' Which is clearly rubbish reading all the advice on here and knowing the RSPCA bond practically every rabbit that comes into their care!!

Keep me updated on all your progress, we've had a few days apart and i'm starting again tomorrow with through the run sessions over the weekend. I think it will just take a lot longer than a few weeks and i have to remember to be patient!! x

Click to expand...

Hello again

Sorry to hear you have such a bad bunny vet. I will keep you posted. Gizmo and alex are quite mellow near each other now [mesh dividing them] although still the odd grunt here and there..... yoshi & tiggs are loves young dream now its very sweet watching them huddle up together. Going to try and house them together tomorrow... [bringing there new hutch in doors so we can stay up with them all night and keep a close eye] me and hubby are doing shifts :roll: things we do for our bunnies :lol: Good luck and like you said i think gizmo and alex could take a while too... but must be patient i guess :roll: