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A Moment of Honesty.....

VikkiVet

Mama Doe
I'm not one for posting woe-is-me threads, and i hope no-one takes this personally, but i have really noticed in the last few months how often and how harshly some people on RU criticise their vets.

I'm not saying that some complaints aren't justified, and everyone is entitled to hold an opinion and let off steam, but the venom with which some people express it really shocks me. Also, the generalised judgement people make upon a vet or a practice based on one incident or one thing a vet said or did.

I know lots of you have wonderful vets who you do praise and appreciate greatly, but please think carefully and use some compassion when dealing with your vet. We're only human, we make mistakes. Sadly many cases, regardless of illness or animal, dont come in with textbook signs and symptoms, causes are not clear on x-rays, blood tests, ultrasounds etc and medical and surgical therapies are not flawless. This frustrates the vet as much as the owner, trust me.

As has been discussed before, vets dont really get enough training in rabbits and rodents, although it is increasing. This is mainly because rabbit medicine doesnt make any money, unless you are a rabbit specialist. We'd all like to be vets because we want to treat animals, and make the money irrelevant, but you can't run a practice on nothing so most vets actually treat rabbits because they care and not for business/financial reasons. But if your vet isnt sure what is going on, consider how frustrated they feel inside, even if they're not showing it, rather than assuming they dont care or are being arrogant or ignorant. Most would welcome information and advice, and i apologise for those that don't. If you want something done about it, complain to the RCVS or the vet colleges, not the vet.

I started the "ask the vet student" thread as an outlet for people's questions and frustrations, so there could be a reasonable non-personal debate and i could learn about what frustrates or distresses owners most. But sometimes i read threads and comments about vets and it makes me not want to come on RU anymore. I don't dare post what i think on some such threads for fear of being flamed and inciting a greater argument, as thats just not constructive.

I just wanted to post this so people can understand what its like from the other side of the argument.
 
well i think if you claim to be an exotics vet you should be able to notice an hugely enlarged rabbit heart OR dont claim to be an exotics vet and waste everyone time :roll::roll:

no space for egos in animal medicine in my opinion
 
well i think if you claim to be an exotics vet you should be able to notice an hugely enlarged rabbit heart OR dont claim to be an exotics vet and waste everyone time :roll::roll:

no space for egos in animal medicine in my opinion

I totally agree Donna
 
I don't like the amount of vet bashing on here either. I know I complain about mine, but that is more about the way the practice is run and how they treat us as a person rather than the way the vets treat our bunnies :)

as we all know rabbits are notoriously difficult when it comes to illness as they hide their symptoms so well, add to that the fact that virtually no training is given to vets regarding rabbit health and the vast majority of rabbit owners doen't want to spend money on their rabbits when they are sick and opt for pts, it is very difficult for vets to actually get the experience they need to become a good rabbit vets :(

It greatly concerns me when vets are constantly ripped apart on here, as I have seen many cases of newer or less experienced members turning to the forum in the first instance when their rabbit is sick rather than get straight to a vet, because from what they have read on here they think there vet will know nothing. And it is so important for a rabbit to see a vet asap when they start to show symptoms of illness.

ETA Vikki don't leave the forum, your posts make me laugh :) Although I can fully understand why you might feel that way
 
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I agree that no-one should not consult a Vet. My problem is that *some* Vets will not admit that they have little knowledge about Rabbits and will continue to 'treat' when frankly they are clueless.

I am affraid I have had too many Rabbits DIE as a direct result of Veterinary incompetence. To attribute all of it to 'lack of training' begs the question why not address that issue :?

If you set yourself up in a Practice treating Domestic Pets is it that unreasonable for clients to expect a reasonable knowledge base of the third most popular domestic Pet ?

If I appear to be the main 'Vet basher' on here then so-be-it. I think there are MANY BRILLIANT Rabbit Vets out there, mine being one of them. But they are still in the minority and I am not ashamed to state my lack of respect for any professional not up to the job.
 
I don't trust a lot of vets.
I trusted Damian, but he's left and I'm still trying to find where he's gone so I can follow him. Fortunately nothing has happened to any of mine, only needed their vaccs.
 
I agree that no-one should not consult a Vet. My problem is that *some* Vets will not admit that they have little knowledge about Rabbits and will continue to 'treat' when frankly they are clueless.

I am affraid I have had too many Rabbits DIE as a direct result of Veterinary incompetence. To attribute all of it to 'lack of training' begs the question why not address that issue :?

If you set yourself up in a Practice treating Domestic Pets is it that unreasonable for clients to expect a reasonable knowledge base of the third most popular domestic Pet ?

If I appear to be the main 'Vet basher' on here then so-be-it. I think there are MANY BRILLIANT Rabbit Vets out there, mine being one of them. But they are still in the minority and I am not ashamed to state my lack of respect for any professional not up to the job.

:thumb:

i dont bash vets at all.. just that one who's ego caused two months of wrong treatment. if my new vet hadnt come Pearl would be dead already, i dont see why i should repect that bloke :evil::evil::evil::evil:

did he once think to himself omg what if im missing something?? no he said to me i will have to accept she just breathes bad naturally :evil::evil:
im very very bitter and i wont be getting over it anytime soon.

I would happily forgive and respect a vet that says oh im sorry i really dont know but ill ask another vet to take a look at the xrays you paid a fortune for just to make sure <<< that never happened :evil:
 
Definitely don't leave the Forum!

I think perhaps the key is for vets to be honest and say-

I'm not sure what this is as rabbits are exotics and I am not an exotic specialist
and

(a)As the situation is life-threatening I propose this treatment...etc (assuming a decision has to be made that instant with no time for referral)

or

(b) and as I think its .....condition, so I suggest the following treatment.....etc
and
(i)if the rabbit does not improve in the next...hrs/days...please ring me on this number

or (ii) and I will contact an exotics specialist and let you know what they say as soon as I can/when you ring back on.......day.

No-one would mind if they saw a doctor and he said I'm not a gynocologist but I can give you antibiotics etc then if it doesn't clear up in 5 days ...etc
so why should a vet mind saying that?

I have a brilliant rabbit savvy vet. I think perhaps the reason that some get slated is either for not being gentle or for not admitting they're not exotic specialists?

You have n excellent attitude and you really should stay on here. You can do so much to forge better links between customers and vets and for ves to learn more about rabbits.
I have no doubt you will be an excellent Exotics vet. -sue:wave:
 
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I trust my vet with my buns when i first started taking my buns il be honest they werent totally clued up but because of the various illnesses my rabbits have had they have learnt and will be able to treat other rabbits correctly when they come in with similar symptoms etc.

my vets also listen to me which i feel is important when ever my buns are ill i research deeply first and what it could be and suggest what it could be to my vets. for example rabbit lost weight vet couldnt see or feel anything wrong i demanded a blood test which showed a problem (it was her kidneys) also when my bun had Mucoid enteropathies my vet was clueless but i did my research first and suggested this to them they researched it agreed and treated it perfectly and he survived.

although i dont trust them with my chinchilla so i suppose all vets varie with different types of animals.
 
I changed vets 3 times before I found one that I felt I could completely trust.

Exotics does not just include rabbits so that vets specialist field may be with some other animal, also a lot of vets still don't class rabbits as exotics.

I also agree that the amount of people that use the forum to get their rabbit diagnosed with an ailment really worries me, no one, not even a qualified vet can judge from a photograph what is wrong with the rabbit and by wasting time waiting for replies on here they should be heading towards their vets.

However, I think the forum is a good place to get advice, especially when someone has had a similar experience with their rabbit, they might know of a drug that has worked and this information can be passed onto their vet, sharing knowledge is a wonderful thing;)

Bottom line: if your rabbit is unwell take it to the vet, if you are not happy with your vet then find another one, preferably one that's been recommended by someone else:D


ETA Please don't leave the forum - like I said share your knowledge;)
 
If I appear to be the main 'Vet basher' on here then so-be-it. I think there are MANY BRILLIANT Rabbit Vets out there, mine being one of them. But they are still in the minority and I am not ashamed to state my lack of respect for any professional not up to the job.

If that is aimed at my post then, no I wasn't thinking of you specifically.

We used to be lucky enough to have two very good vets posting on here, but now we only have one. The other one appeared to stop posting after he was treated in the most disrespectful manner in one thread, where it was basically implied he didn;t know what he was talking about.

Now Vikki, who I have met many times and I know will be a fantastic vet, feels like leaving because of the way vets are spoken about on here.

So how is alienating the vets by constantly putting their profession down going to help improve rabbit medicine?

That is why the RWA are such a fantastic organisation, they realise the need for more vet training in the rabbit area and have funded and supported an amazing amount of work to improve the situation. Maybe providing more support to organisations like this is the way to forward rabbit medicine, rather than personal attacks on individual vets :)
 
Personally I think I have only made negative comments about the vets who led to the premature deaths of 4 of my bunnies (including two of the most very special rabbits ever to pass through my life). If I had had the vast knowledge I have now then probably none of those would have been dead (which gives an indication that it wasn't that they were hiding signs, just that they were not clued up on the very basic things to do for animals). I too hold my hand up though and say that if I had had more knowledge then it wouldn't have happened and that I SHOULD have known more. This is why I always research myself, I always suggest others do the same, why I don't have trust vets generally.

My current vet practice is fantastic. They are not the most savvy, but they are willing to learn and work with me, and whilst that's not ideal, its far superior to what I am used to and they have never been anything other than great to me and my animals. They do genuinely care about them all. You wouldn't hear my slagging them off at all.

The first practice (and the RSPCA practice), yes, but that is based purely on personal experience of what I have seen and learnt from my bunnies.

I do hear what you are saying, but remember that when you have a lot of people who have had bad experiences, things are going to be negative sometimes (and you will also find the positive too and there are plenty of those around). These people are the people who should know more of us and who should be there to help, when that doesn't happen, its natural for people to feel let down, or angry, or upset or anything else like that.
 
Another quick question, those bunnies that appeared to die of vet incompetence, did you get PM's done?

We have had so many rabbits have x-rays, bloods etc taken and been given a diagnosis based on that info, only to find that during PM that info was completely wrong and the problem was not what it apeared to be from the diagnositc tests. But there was absolutely no way of knowing this.

I am not saying there is no such thing as incompetent vets, there are incompetent people in every profession :( But there is only a limited amount of diagnostic that can be carried out on rabbits, which does make diagnosis so much more complicated
 
People probably get sick of me going on about how great my vet is :lol::lol: he lectures on rabbits and is often frustrated by the short amount of time he gets and the lack of interest students show..

There is a vet I have dealt with who is awful and has caused the death of at least two bunnies very recently but I haven't posted details or the practice as obviously that isn't fair. I am going about complaining in the correct way. I wonder how many people actually approach and complain to the vets when they do have a problem rather that just change practice so the vet never know what they have done "wrong"
 
All I can say is, you should always say what you think on a thread - this place benefits most from balanced discussions, in my view. I'm always interested to hear the other side.
 
CRINGE... I've just found my vet and messaged him through Facebook, asking what practice he's moved to! Hahah
 
People probably get sick of me going on about how great my vet is :lol::lol: he lectures on rabbits and is often frustrated by the short amount of time he gets and the lack of interest students show..

Nah, I'm just jealous that I don't live closer! :lol:

There is a vet I have dealt with who is awful and has caused the death of at least two bunnies very recently but I haven't posted details or the practice as obviously that isn't fair. I am going about complaining in the correct way. I wonder how many people actually approach and complain to the vets when they do have a problem rather that just change practice so the vet never know what they have done "wrong"

That's a very good point, and one I've been guilty of not doing lots of times. I'm a serial vet changer. :oops:
 
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