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question for vets/vet nurses

donnamt

Wise Old Thumper
when a bunny (or any other animal) gets diagnosed with a terminal illness do you ever judge the owners for keeping the pet alive longer than you feel they should be, would you speak up if you think it would be kinder to let the pet go?

im getting myself all worked up about the visit on Sunday. 3 months ago pearl was on the vets table and she was deep sighing at her condition and we both thought she was right at the end, we talked about what to watch for.. lying down/refusal to eat/loss of interest in life.

when i was in getting alvins blood test i said i was concerned about pearl going to the vets for her next check and she agreed its best she isnt moved. im going to ask the dreaded question on Sunday if she thinks its time for Pearl to go but im so scared she will think im cruel for keeping her alive to this point.

her breathing is bad most of the time and she makes a funny noise now too when shes just ran or is stressed because of meds, she does still lie down but not for long, she still grooms but havent seen her groom alvin for a while. it takes us about 10mins to get through a 20ml measure of pellets that i now hand feed to her :love:. as bad as she is i still CANT see the sign to say its time, shes happy, very interested in food to the point she forgets shes poorly and runs around in circles with Alvin then pays the price :cry::cry: and shes still interested in me and what im doing.
if im told its not fair to keep her going i will let her go, but i just dont want the vet to think bad of me for not asking the question sooner :oops:

arrrggghhhhh sorry for the Pearl thread again but i dunno what im supposed to do for the best, am i in selfish owner keeping her alive mode now or does she still have quality :?
 
Hi :wave: I'm technically neither vet nor vet nurse, but on my way there, so hope this helps you.
Firstly, no-one should "judge" anyone else for their decisions, but there needs to be honest discussion about any terminal illness and people's choices and opnions considered. Some owners would rather have an animal PTS as soon as there is such a diagnosis, some fight on to the bitter end (rightly or wrongly) and some are in between. It all depends on so many factors, including the illness, the owners and pets temperaments and abilty to cope with the condition and giving medication and other care and how well informed, realistic and educated the owner is.
There is a legal and ethical obligation of vets to determine when an end-point of an illness has been reached (this is entirely from a welfare perspective and doesnt involve the wishes of the owner). They then need to communicate this to the owner. They can strongly recommend PTS but cannot do it if the owner refuses. They can however refuse to give any further treatment if they feel it is unethical to keep the animal alive, but refer it to another vet practice to ensure the animal continues to be monitored.

In your case my main question would be the balance between the amount of time and intensity that Pearl is happy and displaying normal behaviours vs the amount of time recovering from such exersions and generally bein unwell. Its great that she still runs around at dinner time etc, but if she then has to spend a long time in distress recovering, is it worth it? Do you want her to continue until she doesn't do any of the normal behaviours? Is that not a very late end-point? I havent seen Pearl and her illness and behaviour is more complicated than can be explained here, and i think you love her very, very dearly and certainly want her to live comfortably and happily for as long as possible. I dont believe there is any one "sign" that its "the time" (other than the dullness of the eyes of very, very, very sick animals but to me thats very late in illness) so its fairly easy to keep looking for more signs or indicators that the time has come. If you have a good relationship with your vet then together you should be able to determine when is the best time for Pearl. The greatest sacrifice we can make is to act entirely for others and not consider ourselves.
 
Most of time we rely on the owners to decide when their pet has had enough- they see the pet every day and are the best judge of quality of life. Veterinary staff on the other hand may only see the patient for a few minutes in the consulting room or a few hours if the pet is hospitalised, when the pet is often stressed by the journey and unfamiliar sounds and smells, and may appear less happy than they would in their usual environment.
A good vet will offer advice on the signs to look out for that a pet is suffering of course and help the owner reach the right decision.

Of course there are exceptions when an owner possibly waits too long to make 'the decision' but the videos you posted of Pearl a few weeks ago showed a bunny nowhere near that stage yet. She appears to still have a good quality of life and be happy in herself.

I think you need to trust yourself. You will make the right decision when the time comes, whenever that is xx
 
thankyou :wave::wave::wave::wave:

i will ask for an honest opinion on sunday and i will act accordingly. last thing i want is for pearl to be dragged on until shes so poorly she has no happy memories but with no experience i dont know how to judge it. :?

i also will not give up on my girl if the vet feels shes coping ok with the illness (this is the answer i want :oops:). im trying to make the decision for pearl but i think im so close to the situation i cant think about it with a clear head.

shes definately on an up day today though, she ate her pellets quite quick today even after the chase with Alvin lol and went straight thro to the bedroom without having a rest first :love::love:
 
you know best as your with her everyday, vet and nurses will only see them a small proportion of the time :wave:
my vet is soo used to me now with my bunnies, that she trusts my decisions, and we mostly agree on things anyway
 
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