PDA

View Full Version : When do you know it's time for them to go?



georgie_f
24-03-2010, 11:25 PM
This may prove to be a bit oif a depressing thread so if you're reading this and you'd rather remain chirpy, I'd hit the back key now! ;)

When/how/can you know when a bunny needs to be PTS?

My Marge is pretty old. She's registered at the vet as being 8 but I'm sure she's more like 9. She definately looks her age. She's always been a big bunny but the weight has dropped off her back and her spine is very evident when stroking her (although she still has a massive dewlap and, up until a couple of weeks ago, a big ole' belly).

I took her to the vets recently as I'd noticed she was dribbling, her nose was sticky and her dewlap was getting drooly. The vet looked at her teeth and said they were fine but her gums on one side of her mouth looked very red. We put this down to a recent change onto Excell pellets - those things are rock hard! I'd imagine they'd cause sore gums in an older bun. She is still eating but I have found she will only eat when I'm not looking and won't take anything out of my hand now. Before she would pretty much pull my arm off for a treat. :? She also seems to be shrinking, slowly but steadily.

We came out of the vet with Meloxodyl to ease the imflamation and pain. I can't remember when this was but it wasn't any more than two weeks ago. The vet told me to take her back when I ran out of medicine but I still have a bit in the bottom of the bottle (presumably she gave me a two week supply).

Marge is still dribbling, not quite as bad but still bad enough to have a sticky dewlap and her nose is still sticky. Since I started the meds, I've noticed she's obviously feeling her age and is very shuffley when she moves around. She has barely left her night box this week. In the last few days, she has managed to either pee on herself or has been sat on wet bedding - all four of her legs and her tummy are orange and pee stained. Her breathing is quite audiable.

As her dribbling/nose hasn't really got any better I'm assuming she will need a full dental but I don't think she'd get through the operation. The vet was unwilling to do anything more than have a look with a scope when I took her in last time so I'm not sure they'd agree to admit her anyway. This coupled with the fact that she is obviously feeling too stiff to move about much makes me wonder if it's time to let her go. :oops::cry:

How do you know when it's time? :oops::(

yoshi&gizmo
24-03-2010, 11:32 PM
:cry::cry:So sad to read your post. I dread the time when I have to think about this.... i don't know what i would do but i would suggest talking to the vet and see what they think would be best or wait for someone on here with a bit more knowledge to answer. Thinking of you both and sending lots of vibes and hugs your way. :(

bensonlola
24-03-2010, 11:34 PM
I think when you know they are suffering.... it's time. I have a very old little dachshund and I know I'm gonna have to face this sooner rather than later. Not easy but I was just thinking, speaking for myself - that it would be such a shame that he has had 14 happy years, to be spoilt by suffering just for me for the last part of his life. So hard. :cry:

georgie_f
24-03-2010, 11:48 PM
I spoke to the vet briefly about it when I took her in. She gave me three options for what I could do that day - have her admitted for a thorough dental, try the anti-inflamatory or do nothing and let nature take its course. :(

I couldn't do nothing. That wasn't an option. And I didn't want to put her through a dental when the vet couldn't see anything wrong with her teeth. The vet also felt along her jawbone for lumps that could be absesses but couldn't find any. So that just left the Meloxodyl option but it hasn't really done anything. If anything, she has got worse.

I keep looking online desperately for other illnesses she might have but I can't find anything. I think I'm just going to have to resign myself to it being her age. As she seems to be getting smaller, I assume she's not eating enough so if I 'let nature take it's course' she's effectively going to starve to death.

And I've set myself off crying.... :roll:

Part of me kind of wonders if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill though as I'm just sitting here looking through the photos I took of her today and you wouldn't know anything was wrong other than her sticky nose. She definately isn't herself but I can't possibly know if she's suffering or not. :(

donnamt
24-03-2010, 11:57 PM
i cant explain it but does she still have that spark? lust for life? or does she look like shes tired and had enough? not really interested in stuff?

every day im battling with my demons over pearl. i have no idea when its time, ive never been there with a rabbit before.. but i also seem to know when its not.. shes got a lust for life i cant extinguish right now. its very day to day when we are so close to the end but you will make the right choice at the right time for your bunny because the love you have for her is selfless

sending you loads of virtual hugs xxxxx

georgie_f
25-03-2010, 12:20 AM
Thank you for the hugs, they're very much appreciated!

I'm really not sure if she's still got her spark. Where she's become quite stiff, she really doesn't move a lot. She'll shuffle about to get more comfy and occasionally do a little lap of her sleeping area. She still seems to be enjoying her veggies but she will only eat them when she thinks I'm not looking which seems a bit strange. She's also never been what you might describe as a 'happy bunny'.

She was an RSPCA bun, I got her aged three (ish) she had been seized from her previous owners. I'm not sure why but it must have been bad as our RSPCA don't seem to take anything in unless it gets dumped on their doorstep. I adopted her with Harley, who she was obviously in love with, but I lost him a few weeks after bringing them home. He'd had some sort of neurological thing and I found him one morning lying flat on his belly, he'd lost the use of all four legs and was PTS. Marge then lived with my Pharrell for a short time but she bullied him a little so I switched two pairs round and she now lives with Barley. They get on, but they don't seem bothered about spending time together at all.

Anyway, back to my point, Marge has always been a grouch. She is a growler and occasionally lunges but is mostly harmless! I find it very difficult now to tell if she is happy or suffering because of this. Grumpy is normal for her. :?

I think tomorrow, I will put her and Barley in the run in the sunshine (*prrraaaays for sunshine!*) and see what she does. If she just sits on the corner all day, I will know she's unhappy. :(

donnamt
25-03-2010, 08:35 AM
awww hun :( i hope she enjoys the sunshine.

maybe she enjoys grumpy? im looking forward to being a right miserable old crow :oops::oops::oops:

rabbitapril
25-03-2010, 09:09 AM
aah how sad for you.
I have been "fortnate" to have some of my buns get to the age of 10, but when they do this and we see thier slow decline
and it becomes our decision when they have had enough, The worry to us is, have we waited too long because we couldnt bear to let them go, or on the other hand would we always fear we could have had more time with them.
One way that has helped me with my decision is to put myself in thier place, and ask myself what would i want if i was that bunny. I know i wouldnt want to be bed ridden and unable to clean myself, however when you are older you do require a degree of help as movements become more difficult.

I asked myself am i keeping them alive or are they living?

Do i feel uncomfotable looking at my bun and feel a degree of guilt keeping them alive?
Letting a pet go is , i think possibly the most difficult choice we will ever make, it feels like a huge responsibility because only you can decide when.
I am sure she will let you know, wether it is sometime today or maybe in the weeks ahead.
My thoughts are with you

angeleyes
25-03-2010, 09:24 AM
I am also struggling with this at the moment for 2 of my buns, I wish I had some answers I really do but everyone says you will know....

abbymarysmokey
25-03-2010, 10:18 AM
Could she have a bladder infection or kidney failure? It's just that I have a very old (at least 12 years) bun who has arthritis and shuffles around, but he doesn't get urine on himself...the only time I've known buns get urine on themselves is because of an actual illness.

If she was my rabbit I'd ask for blood tests and precautionary treatment with an antibiotic such as baytril before making a decision (as well as the anti-inflammtories of course).

Good luck, and sending vibes for your girl

Ted an Petal
25-03-2010, 10:21 AM
with my bridge bun ralph i came to the decision when i knew i'd only be bringing him home for my sake and not his, he was never going to heal from the abccesses on his lungs. i could have brought him home but i knew it wouldn't be long before he'd need to go back to the vets and into an oxygen tent. i let him go with diginity and although we only had 4months with him i like to think that they where his happiest 4 months of his life. i'm really sorry to hear about your bun. just do what your heart tells you. loads of vibes for her.

capel
25-03-2010, 10:28 AM
Aw <hugs>. It's an awful thing to be facing, but everyone of us on here will have,or will have to, go through this many times, and it never gets easier. All I can say is, as has been said in previous posts, that when the light goes out in their eyes, they don't relish the normal treats , and the spark has gone, you'll just know. Thinking of you.

Lobo
25-03-2010, 12:39 PM
From somebody who had to go through this twice in five weeks all I can really say is you will know when the time is right. Keep a look into her eyes, as is said they are the windows to the soul. When that light begins to dim you are being sent a message you will not mistake. Until then enjoy each other as much as possible, it is a very special time.

Hugo's There
25-03-2010, 12:48 PM
I think it is a very difficult decision when it comes to old age rather than a specific ilness. neither of my oldest buns have any spark in their eyes now, they don't move much and often don't take their treats but they seem content enough just to sleep most of the day, often scaring the life out of me as they are so out of it I have to check they are breathing :lol:

But they do keep themselves spotlessly clean and have no other symptoms except for slowing down completely.

I think in old age it is often down to dignity and we feel it is important that if they have had a good life and have lots of happy memories, that they are allowed to go with dignity. Rather than be left to get to a point where they cannot care for themselves and are becoming sore and pained and are only going to deteriorate further. It would be sad to think of an elderly bun who has had a wondeful life to find their last months are full of pain and struggling.

I think sometimes we have to know better than the bunny. I know for a fact that Timmy didn't want to die, making that decision was the hardest thing I have ever done, but he was suffering despite his wanting to cling to life. However in those final few seconds, we could see that he knew it was right too, so although I have questioned it a thousand times in my head I know deep down that it was the right thing to do. Made myself cry now :oops::cry:

None of that makes probably makes any sense, it is such an individual thing and every case has to be looked at on its own merits as it were.

LurcherGirl
25-03-2010, 01:05 PM
I'm in the same situation at the moment. My Benji is 11 years old and has severe arthritis in his knees. He is on metacam for it which helps, and he is now also receiving chiropractic treatment which seems to help him too (he now distributes his weight much more evenly again and can hop properly again - and he loves the massage that the chiropractor gives him). Yet, he does struggle sometimes to go around and I can see that it is painful for him, or at least very uncomfortable. But at the same time, he is keeping himself very clean from both urine and feaces, he still eats well, is keeping a good weight, he loves his cuddles and is still having a hop about to say hi to the other bunnies. So I don't think it is time yet.

I have never been in this situation before, so I am not sure when the time has come and I am desperate to get it right (and I worry with every new day whether I am just keeping him alive for me, or whether his quality of life is still good), but one criteria definitely is that if he can't keep himself clean anymore, then I will make that call to the vet!

Vera

LurcherGirl
25-03-2010, 01:06 PM
Duplicate

LurcherGirl
25-03-2010, 01:07 PM
Triplicate

LurcherGirl
25-03-2010, 01:08 PM
Quadruplicate... :lol:

bunlover
25-03-2010, 01:17 PM
This may prove to be a bit oif a depressing thread so if you're reading this and you'd rather remain chirpy, I'd hit the back key now! ;)

When/how/can you know when a bunny needs to be PTS?

My Marge is pretty old. She's registered at the vet as being 8 but I'm sure she's more like 9. She definately looks her age. She's always been a big bunny but the weight has dropped off her back and her spine is very evident when stroking her (although she still has a massive dewlap and, up until a couple of weeks ago, a big ole' belly).

I took her to the vets recently as I'd noticed she was dribbling, her nose was sticky and her dewlap was getting drooly. The vet looked at her teeth and said they were fine but her gums on one side of her mouth looked very red. We put this down to a recent change onto Excell pellets - those things are rock hard! I'd imagine they'd cause sore gums in an older bun. She is still eating but I have found she will only eat when I'm not looking and won't take anything out of my hand now. Before she would pretty much pull my arm off for a treat. :? She also seems to be shrinking, slowly but steadily.

We came out of the vet with Meloxodyl to ease the imflamation and pain. I can't remember when this was but it wasn't any more than two weeks ago. The vet told me to take her back when I ran out of medicine but I still have a bit in the bottom of the bottle (presumably she gave me a two week supply).

Marge is still dribbling, not quite as bad but still bad enough to have a sticky dewlap and her nose is still sticky. Since I started the meds, I've noticed she's obviously feeling her age and is very shuffley when she moves around. She has barely left her night box this week. In the last few days, she has managed to either pee on herself or has been sat on wet bedding - all four of her legs and her tummy are orange and pee stained. Her breathing is quite audiable.

As her dribbling/nose hasn't really got any better I'm assuming she will need a full dental but I don't think she'd get through the operation. The vet was unwilling to do anything more than have a look with a scope when I took her in last time so I'm not sure they'd agree to admit her anyway. This coupled with the fact that she is obviously feeling too stiff to move about much makes me wonder if it's time to let her go. :oops::cry:

How do you know when it's time? :oops::(
if she is shuffling this could be athritus... we used cartrophen injections glucosamine and metacam to help ease this particularly the cartrophen gave our 11year old a enw lease of life...she was able to hop over things which hse hadnt done in years.

bunlover
25-03-2010, 01:18 PM
I'm in the same situation at the moment. My Benji is 11 years old and has severe arthritis in his knees. He is on metacam for it which helps, and he is now also receiving chiropractic treatment which seems to help him too (he now distributes his weight much more evenly again and can hop properly again - and he loves the massage that the chiropractor gives him). Yet, he does struggle sometimes to go around and I can see that it is painful for him, or at least very uncomfortable. But at the same time, he is keeping himself very clean from both urine and feaces, he still eats well, is keeping a good weight, he loves his cuddles and is still having a hop about to say hi to the other bunnies. So I don't think it is time yet.

I have never been in this situation before, so I am not sure when the time has come and I am desperate to get it right (and I worry with every new day whether I am just keeping him alive for me, or whether his quality of life is still good), but one criteria definitely is that if he can't keep himself clean anymore, then I will make that call to the vet!

Vera

sugegst cartrophen to yoru vets we used it with high sucsess though it is not licensed for rabbits.. i can give you the vets name &number who treated chelsea during her elderly days. :)
http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Arthropharm_%28Europe%29_Limited/Cartrophen_Vet/-26936.html

georgie_f
25-03-2010, 02:39 PM
Thank you for your replies everyone. I've set myself off blubbing again. :roll:

I don't think Marge is actually peeing on herself, I think she's peeing in her bedding and then laying on it and it's staining her white fur. I clean her sleepy area out morning and evening but there's not a lot I can do whilst I'm at work so she will end up sat in her own wee at some point during the day. :(

She seems wobbly with her stiffness today. I've had to put a water bowl in with her as she can't seem to be bothered to reach for the bottle.

There is obviously another issue too, the symptom being her running nose/dribbling. The only thing me or the vet came up with was teeth. The vet looked, said they looked fine and gave me Meloxodyl for inflamation of her gums. The vet said I could return and have a full dental if the Meloxodyl didn't help but I think she's just too weak to get through it now.

I did also wonder about rabbit syphillis - Thistle had this last year and he free-ranges in the garden so could of got close enough to Marge through the wire to pass it on. He's only been near her a handful of times after being treated for it so I'm not sure how likely it is. :? Even if it was syphillis, I don't think that would make her stiff and wobbly. I'm quite convinced that is just old age.

I get paid tomorrow so I will ring the vet and try and get her in on saturday morning. I'll ask about the injections for her stiffness but I fear the vet won't have a clue what I'm talking about as they're pretty clueless. My current feeling is that I should get her PTS. She can't even be bothered to lift her head up to drink and I can't imagine she's at all happy. :cry:

I'm not sure what I'll do about Barley when Marge goes. My parents won't allow me to get any more pets and he doesn't get on with male buns at all so I can't bond him into a trio. I think this is all going to lead to me having to find him a new home too, I don't want to leave him alone down the garden. :cry::cry::cry:

This is Marge
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/605/img0277j.jpg (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/img0277j.jpg/)

yvette
25-03-2010, 02:52 PM
What a pretty girl.Hugs to both of you.xxxxxx

Hugo's There
25-03-2010, 03:16 PM
Thank you for your replies everyone. I've set myself off blubbing again. :roll:

I don't think Marge is actually peeing on herself, I think she's peeing in her bedding and then laying on it and it's staining her white fur. I clean her sleepy area out morning and evening but there's not a lot I can do whilst I'm at work so she will end up sat in her own wee at some point during the day. :(

She seems wobbly with her stiffness today. I've had to put a water bowl in with her as she can't seem to be bothered to reach for the bottle.

There is obviously another issue too, the symptom being her running nose/dribbling. The only thing me or the vet came up with was teeth. The vet looked, said they looked fine and gave me Meloxodyl for inflamation of her gums. The vet said I could return and have a full dental if the Meloxodyl didn't help but I think she's just too weak to get through it now.

I did also wonder about rabbit syphillis - Thistle had this last year and he free-ranges in the garden so could of got close enough to Marge through the wire to pass it on. He's only been near her a handful of times after being treated for it so I'm not sure how likely it is. :? Even if it was syphillis, I don't think that would make her stiff and wobbly. I'm quite convinced that is just old age.

I get paid tomorrow so I will ring the vet and try and get her in on saturday morning. I'll ask about the injections for her stiffness but I fear the vet won't have a clue what I'm talking about as they're pretty clueless. My current feeling is that I should get her PTS. She can't even be bothered to lift her head up to drink and I can't imagine she's at all happy. :cry:

I'm not sure what I'll do about Barley when Marge goes. My parents won't allow me to get any more pets and he doesn't get on with male buns at all so I can't bond him into a trio. I think this is all going to lead to me having to find him a new home too, I don't want to leave him alone down the garden. :cry::cry::cry:

This is Marge
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/605/img0277j.jpg (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/img0277j.jpg/)

I think if you feel this way it is probably time :( Usually we know but then try to talk ourselves out of it.

She is a beautful girl :love:

georgie_f
25-03-2010, 08:59 PM
I only took that photo yesterday. No one would think she was loosing so much weight and stuff from that photo. :( I almost wish she did look bad in the photos as looking at them just makes me feel it's all in my head. :oops:

My mum said she looked miserable when she put their rain cover on today. I'm going to get mum to ring the vet in the morning (if I do it myself, they won't be able to understand a word I'm saying through the blubbing!) and book her in. I kind of want to wait til monday to spend my day off saying goodbye but I don't think it's fair on her. :cry:

Hugo's There
25-03-2010, 09:05 PM
I am so sorry :(

I am sure both you and her have lots of happy memories already :)

I hope her passing is a peaceful one and that at some point in the future you will be able to think of her and smile.

I will be thinking of you tomorrow xx

LurcherGirl
26-03-2010, 11:48 AM
sugegst cartrophen to yoru vets we used it with high sucsess though it is not licensed for rabbits.. i can give you the vets name &number who treated chelsea during her elderly days. :)
http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Arthropharm_%28Europe%29_Limited/Cartrophen_Vet/-26936.html
I'll look into this. I am sure my vet is up for giving it a go. Thanks.