Large Stools, Vets confirm Gutstasis

Hi all,

Im sorry to ask this question as its not one of the nice kind but my rabbits today (as a previous post in chasing/fighting thread) have started scrapping, They are called Rascal and Scamp and are neutered males 8 months. Earlier tonight i had to give Scamp a botty bath because he had a huge stool attached underneath and again tonight I have cleared out of his cage another huge clump of stools all clumped together. Is it possible that Scamp is not well for some reason and that is why when Rascal approches him he swipes for him. If I go to stroke him he is fine but when Rascal gets close or trys to make up (i guess) with scamp for the earlier scraps Scamp just wont let him near. I have checked Scamp out and apart from a scratch on his back I cant see anything else.

I am begining to worry now as until this mornings fight they had been inseperable.

Please help I dont know whether the fights are due to Scamp not feeling well or just spring because now I have huge stools involved in the issue. Rascal's number 2's are as per normal.

Concerned and worried

Electric Rain

:wave: I am not the most experienced on here but, are you referring to the caecatroph's that should be eaten? Personally I would look to increase the fibre through increasing the hay, what hay do you feed and what greens?

I suspect that Scamp is not eating his caecotrophs (the soft poo that a Rabbit normally eats straight from their anus) because he is stressed by Rascal.

Do you have any other Rabbits ? If so this will exacerbate the squabbling problem.

Is Scamp eating OK and does he run away every time Rascal approaches ?

How big is their accomodation ?

VickiP said:

:wave: I am not the most experienced on here but, are you referring to the caecatroph's that should be eaten? Personally I would look to increase the fibre through increasing the hay, what hay do you feed and what greens?

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Hi Vicki

Thanks for the reply, I give them fresh meadow hay everyday and also they have rhocket, celery and carrots everynight. I have decided not to give them any veg tonight just their day to day rabbit mix and see if that helps, Its just Scamp seems so sensitive today since their fight this morning where as last night they was tearing round the house together playing.

Jack's-Jane said:

I suspect that Scamp is not eating his caecotrophs (the soft poo that a Rabbit normally eats straight from their anus) because he is stressed by Rascal.

Do you have any other Rabbits ? If so this will exacerbate the squabbling problem.

Is Scamp eating OK and does he run away every time Rascal approaches ?

How big is their accomodation ?

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Hi Jane.

i don't have any other rabbits other than Scamp and Rascal and they where brought together at the same age from the same pen. Scamp seems to be eating his food as both bowls where empty and I have seen him with his hay hanging out of his mouth this evening. There are two hutchs/cages in the kitchen of the big big size and Rascal has one whilst scamp has the other. Its not that Scamp runs away but he goes to Swipe at Rascal and turn his back on him when he trys to get near to him.

Scamp can be quite a sulky bun (bless him) but its such a quick change from last night its strange.

ElectricRain said:

Hi Vicki

Thanks for the reply, I give them fresh meadow hay everyday and also they have rhocket, celery and carrots everynight. I have decided not to give them any veg tonight just their day to day rabbit mix and see if that helps, Its just Scamp seems so sensitive today since their fight this morning where as last night they was tearing round the house together playing.

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:wave: No worries, meadow hay is great, you can also get Timothy, Oat and Readigrass aswell for variety. All sold on www.hayexperts.co.uk. I would stick to leafy greens like spring greens and avoid the carrot, the celery too has to be chopped small because of the string. What rabbit mix are they on, do they eat their hay well? They should be eating their own body size in terms of the amount of hay.

VickiP said:

:wave: No worries, meadow hay is great, you can also get Timothy, Oat and Readigrass aswell for variety. All sold on www.hayexperts.co.uk. I would stick to leafy greens like spring greens and avoid the carrot, the celery too has to be chopped small because of the string. What rabbit mix are they on, do they eat their hay well? They should be eating their own body size in terms of the amount of hay.

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I know this is going to sound reallly sad but I chop up their veg into small chunks before I put it into their bowls, you know so they are in small bite size bits.... Their mix is a mix I make up of the following 3 mixes as they like bits of all 3 but not all.. The first is Russels Rabbit Mix parsnip and beetroot, the 2nd is Alpha rabbits mix (from Rookes pets store) and the 3rd is Dryed fruit and Veg (Rookes again) I put them all in a big tub and mix them up. I give them a small glass in each their bowls in the morning and another at night and then I give them each a bowl of the fresh veg! They have fresh hay in the morning and afternoon.

Its what I have been feeding them on for a while now as to change it upsets their stomachs. Also I do give them Cabbage, broccoli and parsnips when I can too.

I am a first time bunny owner and I do tend to spoil the boys but I have read on various websites dedicated to bunny welfare what I need to do but I do have a tendancy to panic when things arnt as they should be so If this to more experianced owners seems nothing to worry about please excuse my ignorance. Im learning all the time on the spot and what with the war that broke out for the first time this morning between the two im a little concerned.

Hopefully Jane will come back on here and advise you, reading your other post my advice would be this:- firstly come up with a more suitable accomodation for the two of them to live together, if they are bonded they shouldn't really be housed separately, you can even use a puppy pen or two till you get something more permanent arranged. Then I think I would check with the vet s/he may want to examine your bun that has the dodgy tum. I would get some Fibreplex and cut out the mix altogether in favour of more hay and fresh greens but, stick to one type and ensure they are washed but don't worry about chopping them too much. Spring greens or watercress is the best option and feed them once a day about the size of the buns head. Do that for a couple of days and if all is well introduce the mix but, only one head size portion for the day maybe in the morning with hay and the same greens for evening with hay. Providing the buns have unlimited hay this should be fine. It will enable you to establish what is potentially causing the problem and the Fibreplex will just help the bacteria balance out again. Just use it for 2 days and see if there is an improvement. Caecatroph's not being eaten I believe is cause for concern, I think this is another reason why routine for rabbits is important as some rabbits don't like us to see it, if they have regular feed times, exercise, sleep times they can adapt their caecatroph eating around that. Not all buns are bothered and will quite happily munch away but, I think some are possibly. Is your bunny drinking, it might be worth boiling his water first and ensuring all his area is really clean aswell. Hopefully you'll get some more advice aswell :wave:

Thank you vicki.

Both Bunnies have seperate hutches, Rascal has ownership of one whilst Scamp the other they are free though to roam the house and are very well behaved. Im just going now to give scamp a clean out and see if that settles both them down, and I will take your advice to just give him hay

Thankyou very much for your time, its much appreciated

Electric

ElectricRain said:

Thank you vicki.

Both Bunnies have seperate hutches, Rascal has ownership of one whilst Scamp the other they are free though to roam the house and are very well behaved. Im just going now to give scamp a clean out and see if that settles both them down, and I will take your advice to just give him hay

Thankyou very much for your time, its much appreciated

Electric

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If it carries on with the advice you have had, I would get to the vet for a check up, it is worth watching out for other things aswell but, providing the bun is normal apart from this I would try what I've suggested for 24-48 hours and all being well fine, if not off to vet you go. Fingers crossed it is a combination of stress etc, would you not try giving them accomodation together so they don't get parted? That might help in terms of relaxing them.

From the sounds of it they are getting too much in the way of concentrate feed (mix).

A Rabbit's diet should be 80-90% hay. Concentrate should be fed in minimal amounts. Infact a healthy adult Rabbit does not need a concentrate feed at all as long as they have constant access to good quality hay/grass along with a variety of veg/herbs/edible weeds. Trying to make a Pet Rabbit's diet as near to what a wild Rabbit would eat is the healthiest option.

Excess Caecotrophs readily occur if the Rabbit's diet is too high in proteins/carbs and too low in long fibre (hay). Feeding too much concentrates means hay intake just wont be enough to insure healthy GI function and dentition.

I would suggest making some dietary alterations to try to encourage more hay intake. Also adding the Fibreplex for a few days

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1180

The boys living arrangements appear to be causing some stress. I am not sure if you keep them in seperate cages and allow them to have time out together ?

I think if Scamp continues to have a messy bum tomorrow a Vet check would be a good idea to rule out any health problems.

Thank you Jane, I will carry out what you have suggested, its really getting strange though as Rascal is now hiding under the chair which is a place neither have been since little boys. He wont come out and I myself am begining to get rather upset and tearful thinking that my bunnies are not happy!

Ive just had to split them up again, i dont understand what has happened over night to cause this, its Scamp that is being aggressive with him. Ive locked them for the 1st time in ages back in their hutchs. I let them have a free reign normally in the house but this I cant trust them not to start at the moment!

ElectricRain said:

Thank you Jane, I will carry out what you have suggested, its really getting strange though as Rascal is now hiding under the chair which is a place neither have been since little boys. He wont come out and I myself am begining to get rather upset and tearful thinking that my bunnies are not happy!

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I think a vet visit is in order then, I also think you may have to review the living accomodation rather than separating them. Do you mind me asking where your user name comes from ElectricRain, what inspired that choice I keep thinking PurpleRain :lol:

VickiP said:

I think a vet visit is in order then, I also think you may have to review the living accomodation rather than separating them. Do you mind me asking where your user name comes from ElectricRain, what inspired that choice I keep thinking PurpleRain :lol:

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Its a lonnnng story lol, ElectricRain comes from trying to find a user name in various web locations, im also ElectricStorm. Purplestorm, Bluelightning. Stormmaker blah blah and Purple Rain lol Electric Rain is a combo of all!!!

Thank you for your time and advise its very much appreciated, ill let you know how things go!

ElectricRain said:

Its a lonnnng story lol, ElectricRain comes from trying to find a user name in various web locations, im also ElectricStorm. Purplestorm, Bluelightning. Stormmaker blah blah and Purple Rain lol Electric Rain is a combo of all!!!

Thank you for your time and advise its very much appreciated, ill let you know how things go!

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:lol: I can't stop singing that song in my head now. OK hope you manage to sort it and then you feel better, best of luck x

The boys living arrangements appear to be causing some stress. I am not sure if you keep them in seperate cages and allow them to have time out together ?

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I too am confused by the living arrangements. If this is the case it may be part of the problem. They are never really bonding as such because they are being continually seperated, therefore everytime they meet they have to re-establish who is the boss, hence the squabling.

Amy104 said:

I too am confused by the living arrangements. If this is the case it may be part of the problem. They are never really bonding as such because they are being continually seperated, therefore everytime they meet they have to re-establish who is the boss, hence the squabling.

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Hi Amy, The boys have seperate hutchs/cages located in the kitchen,(the 2nd hutch was brought after the neutering due to them having to be kept seperate over night but the next day they started to share the hutchs) but they have never been seperated ever, I very rarly have to lock them up in the cages as they have the general run of the house except the living room when im in bed, hense them sleeping under my bed and the bedroom during the day, they rest of the house is theirs together, I must admit I was confused by the statement of the living arrangements... However I think Scamp has been hurt in the fight that occured yesturday under my bed and that is why when Rascal trys to go be close to him he is batting him off because he is in pain which could be a contributing factor to stress which is why his poo's where in clumps yesturday and as noticed today after the clean out of the cages last night, none whatso ever today, Also Scamps has a grazed,bloody nose, I can stroke scamp, hold him with no issue until I touch a certain point in his back then he runs away from me, both are off to the vets in an hour, might as well get both checked out at the same time and hopefully I will be able to report good news later! I am extremeley concerned as it was such a quick change in behavour from scamp. And hes not being nasty or worried about me touching him, but obviously he isnt up to Rascal playing with him! Hope to report good news later, thank you for your concern and reply, it means alot to me to be able to talk about them without people think im being dippy!!!:wave:

Its Guststasis

Well it's the day after the vets visit! Just to let you know Scamp has Gutstasis, He has had two injections at the vets and I have to give him medicine morning and evening via syringe ( pls excuse spelling) Also every two hours I have to give him fresh pineapple juice via syringe to. Basically the vet says is 50/50 whether Scamp will live as its not a good virus to get however today he is looking well and is outside playing at the moment. The fights though are ongoing, Ive kept Rascal and Scamp seperate all night in their Cages but this morning they crossed paths again and the fight broke out. My priority at the moment is to get Scamp well again 100%. Thanks everyone for your replys it was much appreciated. Im Glad that with the advice on this forum I was able to make a more informed choice of whether to take them to the vets and now Im so glad i did. Rascal is fine, absoultley nothing wrong and the Virus Scamp has is not catching so hopefully things will be back to normal soon!:wave:

Poor Scamp What virus is it that he's got? I have everything crossed for his and hope he's soon eating and pooping really soon

Stasis isn't a virus though I guess it may be caused by one. It could also be caused by a number of other things such as stress or pain.