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biscuitblossom
15-03-2010, 09:12 PM
Just on the off chance does anyone know of any vets (preferably not too far from spalding) who do conscious dentals in lincolnshire??

Hoppit!
16-03-2010, 07:46 AM
When you say dentals do you mean clipping the front teeth, or burring molars?

biscuitblossom
16-03-2010, 07:53 AM
When you say dentals do you mean clipping the front teeth, or burring molars?

burring molars....my vet does front teeth conscious but not molars.

Hoppit!
16-03-2010, 07:58 AM
I really don't think any vet would burr molars concious - it would be extremely stressful for the bun, and dangerous too. What puts you off GA, the risk?

biscuitblossom
16-03-2010, 08:01 AM
I really don't think any vet would burr molars concious - it would be extremely stressful for the bun, and dangerous too. What puts you off GA, the risk?

I know some vets do it,I know of people on here who have them done, I'm trying to reduce costs if I honest as it seems another one of my bunnies is going to be a dental bun.

Jack's-Jane
16-03-2010, 09:29 AM
I know some vets do it,I know of people on here who have them done, I'm trying to reduce costs if I honest as it seems another one of my bunnies is going to be a dental bun.

Conscious Dentals can actually exacerbate Dental Disease :cry: It really is impossible to treat molars correctly in a conscious Rabbit. All that can be done is for the obvious sharp spurs to be burred off. But that does nothing re the longterm progression of Dental problems. Often the crowns need shortening and reshaping. Skull radiographs also need to be taken to assess tooth roots.

It is an entirely personal decision of course. But as I have said before, I cannot forsee a situation whereby I would allow a Rabbit in my care to have a Dental without sedation/GA.

ETA I know honeybunny's Vet does conscious Dentals. Maybe her Vet might know of a Vet near you who would also agree to carry out the proceedure :)

HoppingBinky
16-03-2010, 10:47 AM
I have spoken to a couple of vet surgeries in Lincoln and was told under their professional conduct they always do dentals for bunnies under a GA due to the stress it causes.My bun who's 9 yrs old has regular dentals under GA every 2-3 months and he's ok after. Hope you find one in your area.

honeybunny
16-03-2010, 11:03 AM
This is a subject that people have strong feelings about so often disagree

We know of three different vets practices where they have vets who are willing..and more importantly..ABLE, to do dentals without a GA
You must make sure your vet is skilled in this and has the confidence and experience to do it
They do sometimes give the rabbits a very small amount of sedation
There is some risk with this procedure..but no more than a dental with a ga..just search for the amount of bunnies that have been lost after or during a ga dental:cry:
I'm not saying ga dentals are bad..as they are needed and most times successful...but conscious can be the right choice .

We do not put to sleep rabbits who come in with teeth probs as some rescues sadly have to due to the cost of treatment
As we have two vets who can do them without a ga..the risk to the bun is slight..and the cost is small..between 10-17

We have never had a problem with all the dozens of rabbits we have had treated this way..some of them time after time. They are usually eating in the carrier on the way home and there is no need for intensive aftercare.
The only rabbit we lost due to a dental was one that had a ga:cry:

If you search this forum you will find lots of threads where people ask for vibes as their rabbits is going for a ga dental..we never need to ask for vibes for ours , and sadly there are quite a few people who have lost their rabbits due to a ga dental..or the after effects

I must point out that sometimes a GA is necessary..if the rabbit is particularly difficult..(this is not often as our vets are great)..or if upon examination the vet feels further investigation is needed
The argument that the rabbit is so stressed it is dangerous is invalid..as the bun is only with the vet for a short time and vets will always examine teeth initially while the bun is with you in the surgery..that is just as invasive and can be stressful to the bun.
Our rabbits have never shown any signs of stress after this procedure and it has enabled bunnies like out permanent Hettie to have an extra ( so far ) 3 years of life
Most people will agree guinea pigs should have conscious dentals as the risk of GA to pigs is high..yet will argue against for rabbits:?

Are you too far to travel to Gamston in East Notts?

Hugo's There
16-03-2010, 11:10 AM
If it is purely to reduce costs it might not always work out. The only vet near to us that does conscious dentals is so expensive it is only a few punds cheaper than have a GA dental done at our own vet.

The only time I would ever consider a conscious dental is if it really was the only option for a bunny due to an extreme GA risk

biscuitblossom
16-03-2010, 11:12 AM
This is a subject that people have strong feelings about so often disagree

We know of three different vets practices where they have vets who are willing..and more importantly..ABLE, to do dentals without a GA
You must make sure your vet is skilled in this and has the confidence and experience to do it
They do sometimes give the rabbits a very small amount of sedation

We do not put to sleep rabbits who come in with teeth probs as some rescues sadly have to due to the cost of treatment
As we have two vets who can do them without a ga..the risk to the bun is slight..and the cost is small..between 10-17

We have never had a problem with all the dozens of rabbits we have had treated this way..some of them time after time. They are usually eating in the carrier on the way home and there is no need for intensive aftercare.
The only rabbit we lost due to a dental was one that had a ga:cry:

If you search this forum you will find lots of threads where people ask for vibes as their rabbits is going for a ga dental..we never need to ask for vibes for ours , and sadly there are quite a few people who have lost their rabbits due to a ga dental..or the after effects

I must point out that sometimes a GA is necessary..if the rabbit is particularly difficult..(this is not often as our vets are great)..or if upon examination the vet feels further investigation is needed
The argument that the rabbit is so stressed it is dangerous is invalid..as the bun is only with the vet for a short time and vets will always examine teeth initially while the bun is with you in the surgery..that is just as invasive and can be stressful to the bun.
Our rabbits have never shown any signs of stress after this procedure and it has enabled bunnies like out permanent Hettie to have an extra ( so far ) 3 years of life
Most people will agree guinea pigs should have conscious dentals as the risk of GA to pigs is high..yet will argue against for rabbits:?

Are you too far to travel to Gamston in East Notts?

Unfortunately I don't drive so the cost travelling to nottingham would probably balance up the money saved for the dental:?

Of course I would never put any of my bunnies under unnecessary stress in order to save money,it really wouldn't be an issue if I thought that was going to be the case.

At the moment I'm paying around the 100 mark per dental under ga ,Jasmine has had 2 at 3 monthly intervals and incisors burred regularly inbetween that ,it now seems that Diesel has problems too and he's going to the vets at 12.30 today .

biscuitblossom
16-03-2010, 11:14 AM
If it is purely to reduce costs it might not always work out. The only vet near to us that does conscious dentals is so expensive it is only a few punds cheaper than have a GA dental done at our own vet.

The only time I would ever consider a conscious dental is if it really was the only option for a bunny due to an extreme GA risk

How much do you pay for a dental under GA liz?

honeybunny
16-03-2010, 11:20 AM
well if you took two at the same time
instead of paying 220 at your vets you would pay about 30 max..doubt the fuel would be 190:?

As said there is a risk..same as there are risks with a ga...but we have never had a problem

My friend Ange took her bunny there for her teeth for about 4 years..no probs..and she still takes Dooley,Spencer and Autumn..although with the regular checks/burring and good diet two of them have not needed any treatment for a while:D
..Gamston have so many people who use them for dental bunnies..if you do use them you must ask for either Annie or Rachael and say its for a tooth exam..the other vet there does not do conscious dentals ....yet

biscuitblossom
16-03-2010, 11:24 AM
well if you took two at the same time
instead of paying 220 at your vets you would pay about 30 max..doubt the fuel would be 190:?

As said there is a risk..same as there are risks with a ga...but we have never had a problem

My friend Ange took her bunny there for her teeth for about 4 years..no probs..and she still takes Dooley,Spencer and Autumn..although with the regular checks/burring and good diet two of them have not needed any treatment for a while:D
..Gamston have so many people who use them for dental bunnies..if you do use them you must ask for either Annie or Rachael and say its for a tooth exam..the other vet there does not do conscious dentals ....yet

I was thinking more of the fact that I'd need to travel by train,I doubt my mum would contemplate driving to nottingham for me ....but you're right it wouldnt cost that amount I doubt but might mean more stress travelling for the bunnies ?

Hugo's There
16-03-2010, 11:35 AM
How much do you pay for a dental under GA liz?

Around 70 for a routine dental :wave:

biscuitblossom
16-03-2010, 11:36 AM
Around 70 for a routine dental :wave:

Jasmines last one was 114 ,did include a tear duct flush though.

Hugo's There
16-03-2010, 11:41 AM
Jasmines last one was 114 ,did include a tear duct flush though.

I think a flush is 17 per eye but don't quote me.

biscuitblossom
16-03-2010, 11:53 AM
I think a flush is 17 per eye but don't quote me.

yes,my vet reckoned around a tenner....the dental she had before that was 95 I think.

Jack's-Jane
16-03-2010, 11:59 AM
I have spoken to a couple of vet surgeries in Lincoln and was told under their professional conduct they always do dentals for bunnies under a GA due to the stress it causes.My bun who's 9 yrs old has regular dentals under GA every 2-3 months and he's ok after. Hope you find one in your area.

I too have been told this and I believe there *might* be something about it in the Summer edition of the RWAF Magazine 'Rabbiting On'.

biscuitblossom
16-03-2010, 12:00 PM
I too have been told this and I believe there *might* be something about it in the Summer edition of the RWAF Magazine 'Rabbiting On'.

Thanks Jane...as I said I'd never put bunnies under unnecessary stress.:)

Jack's-Jane
16-03-2010, 12:01 PM
Thanks Jane...as I said I'd never put bunnies under unnecessary stress.:)


I know :)

Angie65
16-03-2010, 12:54 PM
I vaguely remember Sooz mentioning a vet in Sheffield that did conscious dentals. I never used them, but I paid attention as I had a potential dental bun
at the time

ecudc
16-03-2010, 01:22 PM
We use one in coventry but that would definately be too far away for you. For me as an individual with GA the dental is around 150. Consious is around 15. I had Rosie done under GA for the one time she has needed one as I thought at the time it was more important for it to be done quickly as I would have to book time off work to visit the other practice however if she needed it as routine I would go down the non GA route. it is true that I know of one person that has lost her bunny during a consious dental (not using our practice) but I also know far more people that have lost bunnies under GA so I think that the risks are balanced and I wonder how many less bunnies would be PTS or handed in to rescues if more vets offered as there are few people that can afford up to 1500 a year on dentals which some bunnies require.

honeybunny
16-03-2010, 02:45 PM
I do get very fed up of it being implied that people, like us, who do use vets who do non ga dentals are being cruel to our rabbits

Unless you have seen a bun after being treated this way..and seen how fine they are..not stressed at all..please don't make such insinuations

Perhaps save your comments for the people who cannot afford to have their rabbit treated under ga so have them put to sleep..or simply dump them..
..or for the people who have lost their rabbits after a ga .
I wonder how many vets performing a GA dental actually injure the rabbits mouth..but the owners never know?

Far more people have other treatments done for other illnesses/accidents that are much more stressful to a rabbit.

The choices are there..the risks for both ways are known,
it is up to the individual owners to make their own decision

look here for pics of some of our very stressed rabbits
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?p=3651918#post3651918

biscuitblossom
16-03-2010, 03:28 PM
I do get very fed up of it being implied that people, like us, who do use vets who do non ga dentals are being cruel to our rabbits

Unless you have seen a bun after being treated this way..and seen how fine they are..not stressed at all..please don't make such insinuations

Perhaps save your comments for the people who cannot afford to have their rabbit treated under ga so have them put to sleep..or simply dump them..
..or for the people who have lost their rabbits after a ga .
I wonder how many vets performing a GA dental actually injure the rabbits mouth..but the owners never know?

Far more people have other treatments done for other illnesses/accidents that are much more stressful to a rabbit.

The choices are there..the risks for both ways are known,
it is up to the individual owners to make their own decision

look here for pics of some of our very stressed rabbits
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?p=3651918#post3651918

On jasmines last dental the vet DID injure her mouth,clearly he told me about it,but it obviously does happen.

Update on Deisel is that it was just his lower incisors that were overgrown,molars were fine, the vet said his lower teeth seem to be biting on the peg teeth rather than the top incisors ,his top incisors are bizarrely short and brown at the tips :?

honeybunny
16-03-2010, 03:31 PM
Glad his molars were ok..with a few dentals his teeth may straighten up..lets hope so

HoppingBinky
16-03-2010, 03:32 PM
Just caught up with the thread, i do think 100 for a GA dental is excessive. My vets in Lincoln are bunny savvy and only charge 45 and thats with an overnight stay. Try shopping around and see who can quote the best price.

As said on previous posts there are alot of for & against arguments, my opinion is if bunny can stand it and is in poor health then ok. I'm sure no-one would put their poor buns through pain for th sake of it and just trust your judgement.

Jack's-Jane
16-03-2010, 03:42 PM
deleted, no point in saying more

honeybunny
16-03-2010, 03:48 PM
Just caught up with the thread, i do think 100 for a GA dental is excessive. My vets in Lincoln are bunny savvy and only charge 45 and thats with an overnight stay. Try shopping around and see who can quote the best price.
.

That is a very good price..if they are experienced rabbits vets Wow..wish they were nearer to us..are their other prices as good?

Snowberry
16-03-2010, 03:50 PM
My vets charge 100 for a GA, plus then the treatment on top of that. There is no way I could afford regular dentals with them.

Crystal butterfly
16-03-2010, 03:52 PM
my vet told me that a concious dental involves placing the rabbit in paralised state personally i think its cruel because the rabbit will be aware of what going on and ownt wont be able to move :( abit like us getting an operation awake but being paralised :(

i havent read the whole thread to be honest but i truelly feel concious dentals should only be done if there i a high risk that the rabbit will die under GA

but this is just my opinion and if you have your mind set on a concious dental then thats your choice and i hope you find a good vet to do it :)

abbymarysmokey
16-03-2010, 04:04 PM
my vet told me that a concious dental involves placing the rabbit in paralised state personally i think its cruel because the rabbit will be aware of what going on and ownt wont be able to move :( abit like us getting an operation awake but being paralised :(



I'm sorry but that's not true at all! :shock:

Hunnybunny2007
16-03-2010, 04:16 PM
I use the same vet as Jill and agree with everything she has said. I have 5 dental bunnies and all of them have had conscious dentals or have had light sedation.

Crystal butterfly
16-03-2010, 04:31 PM
I'm sorry but that's not true at all! :shock:

I dont know its just what my vet told me when i questioned about Concious dentals for Crystal as she getting older Ive been put off though and going to continue will the GA ones.

my vet said they were hypnotized or something which places them in a paraletic state

sacol4940
16-03-2010, 04:56 PM
This is an interesting thread to read....my Jose nearly died after her spay which i think was from the GA....so if she needs a dental in the future she'll definately be having a conscious one

Tamsin
16-03-2010, 06:39 PM
Let's not get into an argument. There are pros and cons to each and different situations and cases that might make one course of treatment more appropriate than another.

Btw Liz - I've had a spur removed from Gypsy's teeth twice in the last couple of months at Ark House. First time was an temp vet and the second time they agreed because she'd been so well behaved previously. It is just a simple single spur though.

Tam

Becky86
16-03-2010, 06:47 PM
This is an interesting thread. We use a vet in wolverhampton for our bunnies in foster care, he does concious dentals. Ive personally taken 3/4 of my foster bunnies for dentals with him. He does the dental in a normal consult, the rabbits are not hypnotized or anything :? They just sit on the table and the nurse secures them just as they do when they give a jab. To me, its much less stress than a dental under GA.

I know my regular vet wont preform concious dentals, something to do with a vein at the back of where they bur the teeth down, and if the rabbit jumps and the vein is caught the rabbit would die instantly. Dont know how true this is, or how much different it would be if the rabbit was sedated or under GA

Scamp is a dental bun so i soon need to decide which route i will go down for her xxx

bunny mad lisa
16-03-2010, 07:20 PM
i am in grimsby, lincolnshire and i have molar spurs done under ga and it costs about 50 which is alot less than you pay, is there any other vets close to you?

Hugo's There
16-03-2010, 09:28 PM
Btw Liz - I've had a spur removed from Gypsy's teeth twice in the last couple of months at Ark House. First time was an temp vet and the second time they agreed because she'd been so well behaved previously. It is just a simple single spur though.

Tam

Thanks for letting me know, I didn't know any of the vets there were willing to do them. I know Jen was very much against them so we would have to go to Guy Carter if we needed conscious dentals, thankfully we haven't needed to as yet. Unfortunately most of the buns I have here that I consider to be a GA risk have really bad teeth that generally need rasping down to gum level because of their roots.

Strangly enough we have never lost a rabbit under GA for a dental, yet we lost a few last year to routine castrations. I think if they developed a stress free way to carry out conscious castration I would jump at the chance :)

Jack's-Jane
16-03-2010, 09:58 PM
This is an interesting thread. We use a vet in wolverhampton for our bunnies in foster care, he does concious dentals. Ive personally taken 3/4 of my foster bunnies for dentals with him. He does the dental in a normal consult, the rabbits are not hypnotized or anything :? They just sit on the table and the nurse secures them just as they do when they give a jab. To me, its much less stress than a dental under GA.

I know my regular vet wont preform concious dentals, something to do with a vein at the back of where they bur the teeth down, and if the rabbit jumps and the vein is caught the rabbit would die instantly. Dont know how true this is, or how much different it would be if the rabbit was sedated or under GA

Scamp is a dental bun so i soon need to decide which route i will go down for her xxx

Yes, its true.

If the vein were caught in a Rabbit under GA/sedation the there would at least be a chance for the Vet to arrest the haemorrhage. Obviously there'd be no chance if the Rabbit was awake. I think the vein is called the Internal Maxillary Vein, but I am not certain on that.

Tamsin
16-03-2010, 10:01 PM
It's is certainly more complicated an issue than anaesthetic bad, no aneasthetic good :)

Jack's-Jane
16-03-2010, 10:02 PM
It's is certainly more complicated an issue than anaesthetic bad, no aneasthetic good :)


Agreed :)

Becky86
16-03-2010, 10:13 PM
Yes, its true.

If the vein were caught in a Rabbit under GA/sedation the there would at least be a chance for the Vet to arrest the haemorrhage. Obviously there'd be no chance if the Rabbit was awake. I think the vein is called the Internal Maxillary Vein, but I am not certain on that.

Yep, thought so. Didnt want to sound like i was saying stuff when it was incorrect. I asked our vet last time i was there why he didnt do concious dentals, and that was his reply.

Certainly is alot to think about when it involves your own pet xXx

poppymoon
16-03-2010, 10:29 PM
Yep, thought so. Didnt want to sound like i was saying stuff when it was incorrect. I asked our vet last time i was there why he didnt do concious dentals, and that was his reply.

Certainly is alot to think about when it involves your own pet xXx

same conversation i've had with my vet becky. they will not do a conscious one.