New here with a breeder question too!

Hiya all,

I'm Lotte, I work as a Herpetologist but kept and bred Bunnies for 8 years prior to moving away to Jersey.

There are prettymuch no breeds available here, but we finally managed to track down a breeder that has Netherlands. My OH has been incredibly excited since I explained to him that house buns were perfectly possible, so after a good few months planning and plotting we're hoping to bring home "The General" (I don't think the irony of his full name will be welcomed by all!!! :lol in the next couple of weeks.

He's what I think is called a Sable Marten, but I'm viewing him again tomorrow to have a good proper look at him and the Doe.

My odd question (perhaps someone can direct me to a better place to pose this?) is this;
The breeder who seems like a perfectly amiable chap has said to my OH that he wants to know we will keep him intact so he can breed from him...

Now, this isn't something I would ever have asked of a potential buyer. If I consider a buck a potential breeder I'd invest the time and space keeping him back and raising him myself... More to the point, once it's sold, it's sold!?!

So he could indicate that he would not sell to us if we intended to Neuter him simply because he did not agree with the practice, or he could expect to pay stud fees like anybody else, but surely no one would ask a new owner of a house rabbit to potentially toil through the terrible teens so that someone else could have the luxury of breeding a rabbit they had already sold!?! Sounds barking to me.

Any thoughts?
Lotte***

You could always agree and then once you have bought him, get him castrated and say it was on the vets advice. Why not go to a rescue and get one that is aready neutered

I think I'd be tempted to say that the vet advised me to get him done due to aggression or spraying problems and then just get him neutered. There won't be much the breeder can do about it once it's done. And I agree with you, once he's sold, he's sold. Although I have heard of this done with dogs - the breeder can retain 'breeding' rights. But quite how legally binding this is, I have no idea.

:wave: I suppose if he gets you sign something you could encounter difficulties, I am assuming he wants to use him in Stud later on, personally I would take him and providing you haven't signed anything do what others have suggested and say it was on veterinary advice, what he is suggesting isn't really practical necessarily if you were to move further away for example, your bunny wouldn't necessarily want to have to travel miles to meet the requirements of stud use. Good luck, don't leave him there if you can help it though sounds like he will have a much better life with you, hope you enjoy the forum, keep us posted on the outcome.

Poor little chap! I'd get him castrated and say he got an infected plum (or something )

I got my boy from a breeder and in the contract it says that I'm not allowed to breed from her bunnies, and I MUST have them neutered when they hit 4 months (boys) 6 (girls).

She has a two different lines of girls, that are bred, and almost all the boys are rehomed, with unrelated studbucks brought in to keep the gene pool diverse. I'd be concerned if he wants to breed his boys with his girls, as I don't see how he could limit interbreeding.

It wouldn't put me off getting him, but I'd have him done. (Maybe you gould get a girlie bun later on for him...that way you'd have no choice in whether he was neutered or not!! )

.....What's his full name?!

I'd like to think that caring and responsible breeders would encourage their buyers to neuter bunnies and find them a suitable companion wherever possible. I wouldn't want to buy from this breeder personally.

There are thousands of beautiful rabbits in rescue shelters (many in perfect health with fantastic temperaments) just waiting to find their forever home

I imagine that if there aren't a lot of rabbits and breeders in the Channel Islands then he's wanting all the benefits of breeding animals without the costs (I image importing more bunnies to the Channel Islands would be a lot more costly than if you lived on the mainland).

I'd not sign anything that gave any rights over my pet to someone else and I'd always neuter my pets!

If there are any rescues or other breeders then I'd urge you to visit them too, but if due to geography that's not an option I be sure that I was willing to deal with any comeback from neutering the bun. There's no way I'd not have him neutered though.

I knew the "why not rescue" questions would be inevitable so I guess I will answer them

Myself and my partner rescue Reptiles, all of which find their "forever home" with us. For us, a houserabbit which we have chosen ourselves of a breed that we feel suits us and the home we can offer, is the best option.
There are simply no Netherland Dwarves offered for rescue/rehome in Jersey (a 9x5mile island of 90,000 people...)
http://www.jspca.org.je/contents_home.htm

I realise that as a community there will be certain trends in what is deemed right or acceptable amongst those here, it happens on every animal forum (I am a moderator on a hobby forum with over 40,000 members) where we all feel passionate about our animals and the welfare of the animals of others.

But nowhere did I say anything to suggest this breeder is unscrupulous, unsuitable or practicing inbreeding. I made a few salient points clear in my first post (my experience level, my location, the specific breed of interest, that I had been considering this for some time with significant planning, that I had chosen an animal bred by this breeder already...) so I don't think we need refer to the bunny in question as unfortunate, a poor little chap or better off out of there.

The breeder lost the sire of the bunny we are hoping to bring home, during the last week. We'd already asked him to keep our buck back for us, perhaps if we hadn't already seen it he might have had him as a holdback (I discovered the info about the Sire when I got in from work and the OH told me the full story).
While we were initially viewing the breeder mentioned the difficulty of having to bring in new lines from the UK periodically as he is fairly certain he is the only person selling ND's in Jersey, he even said "Obviously I can't risk buying any animals from other people from the island as they are likely to be from my own lines at some point".

Thanks for all replies!
Lotte***

Oh, that all makes much more sense knowing that the breeder has recently lost the sire

Without that information the breeder's request did sound unusual and a little unreasonable. I also hadn't appreciated the difficulties in finding bunnies on your island. I certainly woudn't judge anyone for choosing to buy from a responsible breeder though

Sorry I can't resist playing the rescue card sometimes as my husband and I run a rescue shelter When you're actively involved in trying to find homes for endless numbers of homeless animals its hard not to feel somedays as though there really is no need for anymore to be purposely bred right now! My opinion is very biased though of course

I hope that you have years of fun with your new bunny.

All the best x

Thanks very much nibble! No matter whether our opinions on the multitude of hot topics are black, white or shades of grey, we're all motivated by our love of these animals and desire to do the best by them
It's all good!

Lotte***

Jerseylotte said:

I knew the "why not rescue" questions would be inevitable so I guess I will answer them

Myself and my partner rescue Reptiles, all of which find their "forever home" with us. For us, a houserabbit which we have chosen ourselves of a breed that we feel suits us and the home we can offer, is the best option.
There are simply no Netherland Dwarves offered for rescue/rehome in Jersey (a 9x5mile island of 90,000 people...)
http://www.jspca.org.je/contents_home.htm

I realise that as a community there will be certain trends in what is deemed right or acceptable amongst those here, it happens on every animal forum (I am a moderator on a hobby forum with over 40,000 members) where we all feel passionate about our animals and the welfare of the animals of others.

But nowhere did I say anything to suggest this breeder is unscrupulous, unsuitable or practicing inbreeding. I made a few salient points clear in my first post (my experience level, my location, the specific breed of interest, that I had been considering this for some time with significant planning, that I had chosen an animal bred by this breeder already...) so I don't think we need refer to the bunny in question as unfortunate, a poor little chap or better off out of there.

The breeder lost the sire of the bunny we are hoping to bring home, during the last week. We'd already asked him to keep our buck back for us, perhaps if we hadn't already seen it he might have had him as a holdback (I discovered the info about the Sire when I got in from work and the OH told me the full story).
While we were initially viewing the breeder mentioned the difficulty of having to bring in new lines from the UK periodically as he is fairly certain he is the only person selling ND's in Jersey, he even said "Obviously I can't risk buying any animals from other people from the island as they are likely to be from my own lines at some point".

Thanks for all replies!
Lotte***

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:? Can you just clarify if your comments that I have highlighted were in response to mine when I said that he would have a better home with you? I was merely trying to be polite and I think in the majority of cases a rabbit that is lucky enough to find a forever home as a much loved pet would be better off than a breeders 'stock' buck. Obviously this doesn't apply in all cases. What was the cause of death in the sire buck and how old was he?

Hiya Vicky, my response was very much a group thing! Three people had said similar things and others had mentioned the rescue issue, I just wanted to address these

I couldn't agree more, even the most luxurious of lives as a stud animal is unlikely to compare with the intense joy of an indoor forever home with completely focussed and devoted mummies and daddies!

The sire was apparently relatively old but seems to have died of GI stasis from what I could gather speaking to the breeder, he is very very much a hobbyist/pet breeder and unfortunately in all kinds of animal hobbys there are people who with the best intentions don't quite use the best methods, he feeds a "museli" type mixed feed and gives them their greens in more of a large amount once per week style shock Not everyone uses the wealth of information right here on the internet, but otherwise his animals are all very clean, tidy and bright.
Suffice to say, it's a personal choice to decide where your line of satisfaction is, for me it's people who are not cruel mass breeders who see their animals as "stock", who do their best to give their animals sufficent space, companionship and clean quarters, then I guess you can excuse some aspects of not being 100% up to date with the best knowledge... But that's just me!

P.S: He's absolutely not a sable marten :lol: I guess that's what happens when you first meet in the dark by torchlight!
I think his coat is best termed as Gorgeous!!! shame about the mucky feet though, soon have that sorted out

what a verrry cute bunny
Welcome to the forum.


(what does sire mean? ) xx

Jerseylotte said:

P.S: He's absolutely not a sable marten :lol: I guess that's what happens when you first meet in the dark by torchlight!
I think his coat is best termed as Gorgeous!!! shame about the mucky feet though, soon have that sorted out

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Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Like everyone else has said though, I'd be a tad reluctant to let someone dictate to me what I can do with MY pet :?

Oh yes I forgot entirely about that bit I was so busy uploading the photo!!! haha

We discussed it and I think he was kindof hedging his bets, the litter are 7 weeks, essentially he doesn't try to sex them till later than this (unbelievably he says he isn't very good at it till 8 weeks +!!!), so he hadn't looked at any of them and was worried if it turned out to be the only male.
So I made a bit of a deal to get my way, I sexed the litter for him and showed that there were three coloured males and two albino girls

Mazda said:

(what does sire mean? ) xx

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Thanks Mazda!

Dam and Sire are names used instead of Mother and Father when talking about animals, I guess it's not much used in bunnies as you might normally say Doe and Buck instead, but because a Sire refers specifically to the male animal that "sired" the litter it seems most correct to me

hiya
just read through your thread - sounds like he'll have a lovely home with you. he's a sweetie

Jerseylotte said:

Hiya Vicky, my response was very much a group thing! Three people had said similar things and others had mentioned the rescue issue, I just wanted to address these

I couldn't agree more, even the most luxurious of lives as a stud animal is unlikely to compare with the intense joy of an indoor forever home with completely focussed and devoted mummies and daddies!

The sire was apparently relatively old but seems to have died of GI stasis from what I could gather speaking to the breeder, he is very very much a hobbyist/pet breeder and unfortunately in all kinds of animal hobbys there are people who with the best intentions don't quite use the best methods, he feeds a "museli" type mixed feed and gives them their greens in more of a large amount once per week style shock Not everyone uses the wealth of information right here on the internet, but otherwise his animals are all very clean, tidy and bright.
Suffice to say, it's a personal choice to decide where your line of satisfaction is, for me it's people who are not cruel mass breeders who see their animals as "stock", who do their best to give their animals sufficent space, companionship and clean quarters, then I guess you can excuse some aspects of not being 100% up to date with the best knowledge... But that's just me!

Click to expand...

:wave: No worries, I just wanted to let you know that I hadn't intentionally tried to imply anything by what I personally said.

It's a pity about the sire GI Stassis can be treated if caught quickly enough through appropriate veterinary treatment or with experience the owner can sometimes 'catch' it in time and stop it being fatal.

I agree with you regarding the 'line of satisfaction' and it's great when animals being used to breed from are given sufficient space, companionship, and clean quarters - it's even better when they are fed correctly and given proper veterinary care though and for me - my 'line of satisfaction' is achieved only when all these things are achieved - I think breeders whether it is a hobby or a business should be setting the standard and before entering into the venture ensuring that they are able through sufficient knowledge, space, time and funds meet all the needs of their animals-I know that may seem a tall order but, only when I see a 'breeder' meeting all the needs of their animals and putting the welfare of their animals first will I be convinced that they do it for the love of the animals but, thats just me:lol:

Your bunny is adorable, why are his paws dirty? I wouldn't worry too much if it is just because he has been running around the garden, he will soon sort that with grooming himself. What have you decided to do regarding the breeder using him as a stud buck?

Hi and welcome to the forum :wave:
I've just read your thread, what a gorgeous little bun Just curious why it is this particular breed you want? Don't get me wrong, he's wonderful, just curious!
As for the non-neutering thing I think thats abit mad! Fair enough he lost his sire, but if the general comes home with you he'll be YOUR pet, and believe me the last thing you want is a feisty hormonal bunny living in your home! It's you that will have to live with him, so I think you should be the one who gets to make decisions based on his upkeep and well being, not his breeder. And in my opinion a buck (especially a house bun) should always be neutered for the sanity of you and him!
keep us updated on what you decide
xx