Teasal Retaining urine : Why? Any ideas?

Teasal has been prone to sludge for the last few years. he is on a low to no calcium diet (no pellets, low calcium weeds, low calcium water etc, he is slim and fit and runs around a lot)

We keep the sludge under control by him being 'expressed' every few weeks.

However for the last couple of weeks he seems to have a slightly different problem. He seems to be holding in his urine so that he gets very uncomfortable. When we take him to the vet and she expresses it there is LOADS of wee. I mean LOADS. And it smells a lot - BUT not of infection just of very rank and concentrated wee. There is also actually less calcium in it than before.

He has been tested for infection in the urine and there is none (he has had septrin courses before when he has had infection).
The sludge is surprisingly low also.
There is no visible evidence of urethritis either.
No blockage post bladder (and its coming down from the kidneys ok)
There seems to be no reason why he should be holding it in.

However it is obviously causing him discomfort as the bladder gets large and he just won't wee.

Anyone ANY ideas?????

we have given metacam in the interim but really we need to try and find the cause.

I don't know if Teasel's problem is caused by infection, but I do know that it is pretty much impossible to test for urine infections because they are usually caused by bacteria that die immediately on contact with air. I've had urine samples tested a number of times (both from expressed urine samples, and samples taken directly from the bladder using a needle)...and I've never known them ever culture any bacteria

Has the Vet tried a course of Frusemide (diuretic) ?

abbymarysmokey said:

I don't know if Teasel's problem is caused by infection, but I do know that it is pretty much impossible to test for urine infections because they are usually caused by bacteria that die immediately on contact with air. I've had urine samples tested a number of times (both from expressed urine samples, and samples taken directly from the bladder using a needle)...and I've never known them ever culture any bacteria

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Hmmmm - I know that with Damson (who has kidney stones) they actually look for 'casts' ??? to see if he has an infection actually in the kidney - but they have not done this for Teasal (different vet) as she just uses the 'dipstick' test - . I wonder if we should treat him as though he had an infection??

Jack's-Jane said:

Has the Vet tried a course of Frusemide (diuretic) ?

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yes she did that on another occasion (although he wasn;t retaining urine then- just sludgy) - and tbh it was hell - he just squatted and dripped and squatted and dripped and squatted and . . . you get the picture. It was awful. We had to take him off and put him on valium for several days as he had gone into penile spasm:shock::shock::shock:

I am now wondering whether he perhaps has an infection that is not being picked up?

In fact the vet who sees him has just done the 'dipstick' method of testing for blood in urine rather than looking down microscope or anything.:?

parsnipbun said:

yes she did that on another occasion (although he wasn;t retaining urine then- just sludgy) - and tbh it was hell - he just squatted and dripped and squatted and dripped and squatted and . . . you get the picture. It was awful. We had to take him off and put him on valium for several days as he had gone into penile spasm:shock::shock::shock:

I am now wondering whether he perhaps has an infection that is not being picked up?

In fact the vet who sees him has just done the 'dipstick' method of testing for blood in urine rather than looking down microscope or anything.:?

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You know that I am more used to humans, & there can be very marked differences from buns in some areas.
If the bladder neck is irritated by either infection or sharp crystals = sludge, it can be very painful to wee, which may be why he's holding on.

I would expect an expressed sample of the urine to be examined under the microscope for crystals & cells eg pus cells. I think Abbeymary smokey & I agree to differ on the use of c&s testing. I support sending a specimen to the lab for culture & sensitivity of infecting bacteria. The vet requesting the test needs to be aware of the possibility of certain bacteria which need specific culture techniques, & request them.

thumps_ said:

I would expect an expressed sample of the urine to be examined under the microscope for crystals & cells eg pus cells. I think Abbeymary smokey & I agree to differ on the use of c&s testing. I support sending a specimen to the lab for culture & sensitivity of infecting bacteria. The vet requesting the test needs to be aware of the possibility of certain bacteria which need specific culture techniques, & request them.

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I didn't tell her not to get a c&s done, I just said that she may want to treat for infection even if no bacteria is cultured

abbymarysmokey said:

I didn't tell her not to get a c&s done, I just said that she may want to treat for infection even if no bacteria is cultured

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Which is what we are now doing - after seeing another vet again today. Wish us luck!

Wishing you lots of luck.
ETA Parsnipbun, have you ever tried wild chervil to reduce teasel's sludge?