Started bonding this morning, help! :o

Hi all Charlie & Oscar had their final checks after their ops at the vet last night, the vet said we could start bonding, so this morning we did.

At first we moved Oscars cage into the lounge by Charlies but realised its not neutral terriroty. So We put their cages together in the hallway (neutral) and like that Charlie (girl) got excited, jumping around ripping paper breathing rapidly, tying to bite his feet through the bars, and Oscar (boy) was pretty chilled out just looking around and sniffing gently at her feet when she stood up against the bars.

We let them loose in the bathroom (also neutral) and instantly Oscar was chasing Charlie around and around in circles making playful noises and trying to mount her, she was terrified and ran really fast trying to hide behind my legs, we grabbed a bunny each and held them still close to one another petting them, they relaxed and sniffed at each other and it was very peaceful, but when we let them go again the same thing happened with Oscar chasing and they went round and round, Charlie became exhausted and was making a noise which sounded scared and tired shes never been a vocal rabbit so this is the first time iv heard her make any noise she sounded really scared,...

we decided to put them back in their separate cages as i dont want her to get too stressed shes my precious baby

so what now? any advice will be greatly appreciated!

jem
xxx

I'm no bonding expert at all, so i'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will be able to advise better, but chasing, humping, fur pulling and nipping is all perfectly normal behaviour - the humping is simply sorting out their pecking order i.e whose the boss!

The only time you need to physically separate them is if they actually start full on rolling about biting type fighting, in which case a water-sprayer and a broom handle/heavily gloved hands are needed, never try and separate them with your bare hands as they can give you a nasty bite.

Also if one rabbit is excessivley mounting the other one then you may want to separate them in case the mounted rabbit gets cheesed off and decides to bite back.


I'd give them another 10 minutes or so at a time and slowly increase it as they get used to each other. Good luck, it's so worth it when they're all loved up together

Hiya,

How long ago did they have their ops? And how old are they?

They may have had too much space to start with - Dont put cages or anything either rabbit has ownership of anywhere near them. If you can pen off a little area in totally neutral territory (3 x 3 ft ish) e.g in your bedroom or somewhere you can stay and wtach them. once in there observe them for any fighting - Only if they fight seperate them... they will chase and hump to work out whos boss!

It is very stressful when they are your babies and very difficult to watch - I did it a few months ago - but well worth it once they are together. Its best not to seperate as they have to start from scratch and work out the whole dominance thing again - but if you think one is getting really stressed - maybe try the slow approach by putting them together a few hours everyday until they get used to each other x

Unless they are locking on and fighting you have to try not to interveen. I know its stressful to watch but you need to let them get on with the whole chasing humping thing. Obviously if you really feel that one bunny is getting overly stressed then seperate and try again another day, but if you can avoid seperating them and do the bonding in one long stretch it would be better. When you seperate them they have to establish dominance all over again so they never really move past that stage.

You also need to remove the cages from the hallway if that is your neuteral area as they associate the hutches as theirs so it compromises the area.

It is also sometimes easier to restrict space so they interact with each other more.

A huge pile of hay to share can sometime provide a good distraction as long as one of the buns doesn't claim it as theirs.

chasing, fur pulling mounting nipping even the odd fight that lasts about 30 seconds normal


lungeing, drawing blood full on fly fighting thats very hard to separate this is a no no

it can take a while for this to settle, they have to sort out whos the boss,

keys, neutral ground
dont touch them if poss,
scatter feed if one is nervous,
dont move them from the area for a goodfew days
if fighting last longer than 30 sec use a broom or something similar to prise them apart, never if in a nasty fight stick you hands in, ( i have a nasty scar from expeirence)
you are looking for licky head grooming etc,
bare in mind this can take a few days, Its like an arranged marriage, how would you feel, and would you be happy tp expect to like your partner after a few hours??
this is just the beggining you need a few free days were you are around and can keep and eye on them,

Thanks everyone thats really helpful, we should have persisted in the bathroom.

Moss they had their ops 2 weeks ago, charlie is around 19 months and Oscars age is unknown....

before anyone had replied here i decided to let them free in the hallway again, Oscar chased Charie round and round and round, shes faster than him so he didnt get close, eventually she was so knackered she flopped down breathing heavily and she didnt have the energy to move away from him pestering her so i separated them again as she looked terrorized and helpless, theres been no aggression at all, hes a big friendly lump but shes just absolutely TERRIFIED of him!

Like i said shes never been vocal but shes found her voice now and is making a crying/growling sound every time i try to encourage her to come out of her house, i think because she knows i might let him at her again...

i feel awful for her i dont want her to think everyones ganging up on her...

Oscar

Charlie


jem
xxx

You might find that, as they're a little older, their hormones could take longer to settle down. If you get them spayed when they are young, their hormones often haven't kicked in, so you may not experience any aggressive/territorial behaviour.

I have two girls, one of whom was spayed at 18 months(ish) and her hormones have been all over the place - she was spayed about 7 weeks ago. It does look like she is starting to calm down now, but their bonding attempt had to be stopped because she was too hormonal. She was biting my other girls face and also biting the lady trying to bond them and me. She had never bitten prior to her op, so I guess it's just her hormones flying around!

Will hopefully be attempting the bond again in a few weeks **fingers crossed**

where abouts do you live? or area?

firstly sorry to sound harsh but you are not prepaired just letting them lose in the hall, watching a bit of chaseing then seperating is not going to work sorry, it will cause more stress,

firstly wait a few weeks for hormones to settle,

then find a neutrul area where you can keep them confined in a small space, I bonded pairs in a medium to large dog crate, or something of similar size, if you are making your own space clean with a 50/50 mix of vinegar and water, to neutrilizes any smells, you will need litter tray hay water bottle, possiably a toy, I know it sounds cruel but the bonding area often works better small,

next you need to be prepaired yourself, you flapping or being over protective will not work either, they sense it,

when they are introduced, if chaseing persues, just watch for things in the list i mentioned above, if chaseing stops after say 30 secs thats fine, if one bun is being mounted alot thats fine, ( though we have some cases of toooooooo much mounting resorting in vasaline due to sore winky :lol: )

if shes being chased and is out of breath thats fine you would be too, if shes getting a chance to recover then its fine, she has every right to be scared, she has to get used to him and to do that he needs to allowed to sort his frustration out, so he will mount her a lot by the sound of it, there will be thumping, little grunts, to tell him to back off, this may bother him and might make him feel a lil guilty and offer a nose groom which she will most likely refuse,:lol: then he'll get confused and feel like hes doing nothing right and will either back off or just resume mounting again this is all good signs it can just take a good few days to settle, ( this is going from a few ive bonded and how it looks from the outside)

this looks to be a good bond from what im reading as this is all normal, just need to wait a bit longer

and you have a dutch squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and a black bunneh

moss, thankfully, she was all over the place with hormones before the op but has calmed down pretty much immediately after, iv seen a big difference in her good luck with your girls!!

ereia thanks thats great advice! youv had lots of bunnehs

Thank you everyone I really appreciate you taking the time, We've gone about all of this completely wrong! im kicking myself as I had read so much on these forums over the past few weeks and when it actually came to it I let my nerves and maternal instincts take over and ruined it!

Advice to anyone doing this for the first time: Write down set straightforward guidelines from this forum, and follow them no matter what!

They are in their separate cages, in the same room, and are both relaxed and behaving as normal, so should i leave them where they are for now? I wont try again tonight as its late...

jem
xxx

id leave them idealy you need to do this hen you have free time, do you work at all ? as its best to have at least 48 hours free, you can still do housework etc ( though i use bonding as an excuse not to do housework :lol: ) its best to be around and not leave the house for a long period of time

best you take time to chill stock up on wine :lol: and prepare, quite often a good place is the living room as alot of bonders veg and sleep on the sofa :lol:

I used to foster for ARC so those formaly buns are foster buns, though some arc buns became my buns I do have a few threads of my bondings on here along with a few other members who bond too,

leave them idealy you need to do this hen you have free time, do you work at all ? as its best to have at least 48 hours free, you can still do housework etc ( though i use bonding as an excuse not to do housework ) its best to be around and not leave the house for a long period of time

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I agree. I work full time so always plan to start my bondings first thing on a Sat morning.

I use one of the circular fabric pens to bond. Its a nice small space so they interact well and the sides are soft so if there is any chasing no-one can bang themselves and get hurt.

When I bonded Bailey, the other rabbit only wanted to be friends but Bailey has limited sight so startles easily. Therefore the chasing did go on a bit. However his exhaustion worked to an advantage as it allowed the other bun to get close enough to groom him. At the same time you don't want to overdo it and stress the poor things right out so fully understand you feeling the need to seperate when your little one looks so frightened. Only you know your rabbits so a large part is using your own judgement as to what is acceptable for the individual bunny.

areia said:

best you take time to chill stock up on wine :lol:

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:thumb::thumb::thumb: one of the most important parts of bonding :lol:

i wouldnt keep them in the same room until they are completely bonded.
keeping them seperated but in the same room will confuse them, they can still see eachother!

They key is neutral territory and keeping both of their cages in the hall while they run around is not technically neutral because they feel ownership over their cages.

When you bond, they have to be in an area they have both never been in before. with toys/food dishes they havent seen either. otherwise they might get territorial.

humping and chasing about is part of bonding, dont worry about that part

Hey everyone thanks for all the support when things were all scary!! Bonding is like you have to overcome a massive hurdle of madness at first and you want to stop it but you have to be strong and patient!

Its around 1 week now and Charlie and Oscar are living together happily, theres still plenty chasing and thats because Charlie doesnt trust Oscar anywhere around her back end, i also think she enjoys the chasing as sometimes she prompts him to chase her and she likes to show off the fact he cant keep up with her! :roll: they arent spending toooo much time being close yet so I dont think they are fully bonded but they are kind and sweet to each other so im happy Sometimes Charlie goes to groom him, she gets really into it and grooms really thouroughly and enthuistically but she wont let him groom her back!

thanks again pictures to follow!

jem
xxx

Thank you for the update and very well done to you