Unusual Small Lump Under Tongue - Advise Needed

Hi bunny mummies and daddies...:wave:

I have just taken Leila to the vet today and will have to make some decisions soon on what the next step will be or just to moniter this carefully.

I noticed a week or so ago that Leila was making a much louder noise when licking and washing but I didnt think anything much of it at first. It went on quite a while and was unusual so I decided to look in her mouth. As she flickered her tongue out I noticed a small perhaps pea-sized lump on the underside of her tongue. It's pink and white.. firm but soft, not hard or crusty. No puss, no blood, looks clean.

It seemed to coincide with her not liking the latest bag of excel junior and dwarf feed. I bought this bag and when I opened it I thought it was slightly different, maybe bigger and smelt diff but I fed it anyway. She didnt touch it so I put in some russell rabbit I happened to have as backup. She ate that fine, though selectively. I then gave her the last bit of excel pellets from the old bag which she ate eagerly. I bought a new bag of excel junior and dwarf from a different shop and she didnt touch it.. so she's back on mixed feed at the moment and only eating the bits she likes. However she's eagerly eating several types of hay and dried herb treats and fresh veggies.

Other than the sound and the lump she is totally normal. I wouldnt have even noticed if I didnt spend so much time very close to her in a quiet environment (I work from home) she's hopping, binkying, drinking, pooing (though they are always smaller when she's not eating excel) weeing, playing, giving bunny kisses, washing, humping her squishy ball toy.. haha and generally getting up to mischief...

The vet was very uncertain and couldnt even get a good look at it. She said she didnt think it looked infected, like an abcess would. She said it could be inflammatory or it could be a lump, benign or malignent. She suggested biopsy and sending to the lab. But that if it was benign it prob wouldnt grow any bigger and she could prob live with it and if it was malignant there might not be much they can do apart from remove and hope it hadnt spread. So for now we've settled on antibiotics as a long shot to see if these make a difference. She had two injections today and is going back for more on monday.

After that I need to make a decision whether to risk anaesthesia to get this lump off her tongue and get it tested or to carefully moniter it and leave it on there as long as she's happy, healthy and it's not getting bigger. It would probably be april before I could afford this anyway. Obviously if it suddenly got worse I'd find the funds somewhere though. What I'm wondering, is if it's exactly the same/smaller/gone down by april what that be indicative of it being totally benign? Would surgery then pose more of a risk than leaving it.. Afterall rabbits need to eat straight away after surgery and a tongue op would make eating v painful im guessing.

The vet said she'd never seen anything nasty/malignant in that area but also most people just wouldn't notice it.

Another option is to see another vet a more rabbit savvy one like Christabelle perhaps as she's not too far from me. To get a second opinion.

Has anyone ever in their experience seen or heard of anything on or under the tongue of a rabbit? She did look at her molars briefly but said she could only see the first set and they looked ok. She also said her tongue mobility was fine, which I know coz she's still licking away at any given opportunity!

We're very bonded and I love her an unbelievable amount so im stressing about this a lot... I want to do the right thing for her! I couldn't sleep last night coz I was so anxious

sorry im gonna stop rambling now and wait for some advise.. I think I'll also ask Dana on all experts too as she seems to be good x

http://www.lbah.com/rabbits/malocclusion.htm

This image actual comes close to what it looks like particularly in size and colour.. although I cant tell if the lesion (which is an ulcer in this picture) is as raised as leila's which I could prob hold between my fingers. Its not like a round ball, more like half a ball, half a pea to be precise

This image says that the ucler was cassed by pasturella, I asked the vet about that and she said it's a common problem but they usual have snuffles and other syptoms leila isn't showing...

hmmm

Hoping for the best!

Has the vet poked it with a needle to see if its a puss ball?

A tumor grows rapidly. If you dont see it get bigger in the next two weeks it has probaby stopped growing and therefore you wont need to have it removed (if its not affecting her). I would lonly be afraid of Pasteurellosis..X-rays will solve that question. And sulfa' or penicillin antibiotics with help with that.

If it continues to grows... I recomend having it removed. More than likely it will come back but Steriods should slow that down or even stop the growth completely.
I have only had experience with cancer in rats. For my first experience the vet prescribed an antibiotic. She had to be put down soon after. When it happened a second time to another rat I demanded a better drug. They gave her a certain type of steriod. She lived comfortably, and happily for a long time after that.

I hope for the best for you!!!!

Hi Monobird,

She would definately need to be sedated to have it poked with a needle as its very hard to even open a rabbit's mouth let alone see the lump under the tongue for longer than a second and get a needle near it!

I have been watching it for the past five or so days and it actually seems to have decreased in size slightly, I think, unless im imagining it.. It seemed more swollen and round at first and now looks slightly deflated. Though I can't be 100% sure. I will be looking at it everyday, probably several times.

This vet seemed to rule out pasteurella straight away.. thats why im wondering about seeing another vet. At least antibiotics was the right first treatment choice if it is that... She has zero symptoms other than this lump under the tongue though. No excess eye or nasal weeping. She gets sleepers in her eye but always has.

One thing though is she's had a small bobble on her third eyelid for around a year now. I was told not to worry about it as it's absolutely tiny and hasn't grown, it doesn't bother her whatsoever. So I highly doubt it's related...

Dawn&Leila said:

Hi Monobird,

She would definately need to be sedated to have it poked with a needle as its very hard to even open a rabbit's mouth let alone see the lump under the tongue for longer than a second and get a needle near it!

I have been watching it for the past five or so days and it actually seems to have decreased in size slightly, I think, unless im imagining it.. It seemed more swollen and round at first and now looks slightly deflated. Though I can't be 100% sure. I will be looking at it everyday, probably several times.

This vet seemed to rule out pasteurella straight away.. thats why im wondering about seeing another vet. At least antibiotics was the right first treatment choice if it is that...

Click to expand...

Tumors are usually pretty firm, and not perfectly circular. If its soft I bet its puss. I had a vet tell me that this soft grape sized ball was a tumor until my rat managed to pop it open. It was just puss. Antibiotics would make it smaller and eliminate the need to pop it.
If its not getting bigger its not a tumor.
Vets are pretty good about finding pasteurella. Its easy to see on X-rays and its pretty common. If shes on antibiotics and the vet says no I would just see what happens because they wont hurt.
My bunny currently is being treated for Pneumonia, and pasteurella just in case because they both can be treated with the same antibiotics.

hmm its weird I looked at it again and strangely enough it reminds me of wart or veruca in that the skin on it looks sort of frayed, a little jagged, with slight layers perhaps.. it's hard to describe.

But yeah definately not got any bigger yet...

Still worrying me to death though... just at a time when im under lots of other stresses too!

Thanks for your replies and help Mono I really appreciate it, would love to know what everyone else thinks too x

*edited to add* another thing I've thought of is that she has bitten through wires before. But it's been a few months since she's done this.. The last one was quite a big one though. But surely if this was a burn and she'd had it that long I would have noticed the slurping sound sooner..

Hi, I don't know much about this im afraid, Im just wanting to send you and Leila puss vibes Hope she's ok and the lump goes down with the anitbiotics. Let us know how she gets on
xx

Thank you Gemma xx

I'm hoping someone here might have seen or dealt with something similar... I can't concentrate on anything at the mo, I hate the not knowing part! :shock:

We went back for the second lot of injections today... The lump doesn't look much different. Leila's eating hay and veg /fresh stuff but not any dried food that I've noticed at the mo. I am feeding her more other foods than usual so perhaps she's decided why bother with dried food when she has more tasty stuff.

She's still active, was digging up the towel in the carrier and getting quite annoyed in the waiting room. Shes a bit quiet but alert since we got home, but just started nibbling some hay a second ago.

The vet wanted me to go back in a week to see if it had changed and maybe to sedate and look at it closer. But im thinking if I sedate her, it might as well be taken out. She also said if it was something nasty it would probably grow visabally within 2/3 weeks. obviously if I noticed it growing at all I would get it taken out though. So far it looks the same if a little deflated like I said. I asked about Rabbit Oral Papilloma Virus but she'd never heard of it and it wasn't in her text books.

I may try to see a specialist rabbit vet like christabel next instead but I'm very low on funds for this month now if the situation got worse though I'd get her treated somehow asap. But for now I'm thinking I should just moniter it carefully and her eating and take it a day at a time?

Just quickly adding -

I looked at it myself for the first time today. It's definately not as round... like its deflated a bit and looks much whiter. I think this is positive sign... Gonna cross my fingers that it will continue to deflate and check once a day... :?

Another factor to put in the mix too is that the day after I noticed this whilst topping up her hay I had a thorn go right into my thumb and THEN a splinter in my finger all from the same handful.... I guess it's not impossible that she could then have a splinter embedded in her tongue.. hmm so many things are possibilities here.. sorry for rambling on for the last few days, im not sure if anyone's listening anymore! lol

Hi Dawn I am listening :wave:
How is the lump today?

I'm still listening! How is she today? Its a great sign that shes still eating, drinking and lively so atleast you know shes not in too much pain. What hay are you using? A thorn and a splinter sounds abit scary!
xxx

Hi Rachy and Gemma :wave:

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated

I'm pleased to report that the lump or whatever even on earth it is is deflating! It used to be very round and swollen looking but day by day it seems to deflate. Thats the only word I can use to describe it as its still affecting the same area its just not swollen. It also seems to be breaking up, it's going whiter and tiny bits look like they might fall off :shock: the only thing i've been doing myself is a cotton bud with warm salt water on it if I can, though its hard to get her to comply!

She's fully off any dried food but is eating a wide variety of veggies/herbs/greens/fruit and hay and sunflower seeds as a treat. I've also offered her ryvita and a bit of weetabix occasionally.

I'm wondering if she's now getting a bit too used to all this nice new stuff im trying and turning her nose up at anything dry. Either that or the dried food is uncomfortable to eat for some reason.

The hay is called meadow hay and it comes in a see-through bag either compacted or loose and it has a weird ugly green rabbit on the front :lol: as soon as I opened it tons of dust came out so I had to top her hay up outside. Unfortunately its the only one she's eating at the mo, as it's quite thin and soft. She barely even nibbles on the timothy hay, but it's quite straw like. I'm going to get something greener and fresher but still soft, any suggestions?

I'm a little worried about Mycotoxin poisoning (mold spores), what with her turning her noise up at the dried food and tough hay.. And the mouth lesion, which could easily be an ulcer for all I know. I've read they get ulcers in their gut and mouth with Mycotoxin Poison. So I've got some cabbage and even tried giving her some juiced cabbage as this helps ulcers, much to her distaste :roll:

I am monitering her closely but im happy with the amount she's eating at the mo, and her behaviour, still cheeky and bright and wanting attention. She's not drinking as much but im pretty sure thats due to reduced dry food intake. She's pooing, not as much as normal but they're there which is good, and eating the cecals.

The vet wanted to sedate her to look at it next monday if it hadn't gone down, but as it's going down im sure it's not cancer, so I don't really want to put her through sedation. As long as this thing continues to go down and her appetite doesn't get less and she keeps pooing im just going to be keeping a close eye on her. If she's still not eating pellets in a few weeks or so and/or if this thing still remains I might get her teeth checked out or look into the possibilities of ulcers. Just don't want to sedate or stress her when I don't need to.

xxx

Glad to hear its deflating

If this was me i would only put her under sedation if it was affecting her. i.e totally off her food or clearly in pain. She is getting selective but my bun Ellie goes through phases of "liking" certain things :roll:

I would monitor her and if she starts going off anyother food then perhaps consider sedation. I only woud put any animal under sedation as a last resort

But im a worry wart hehe.

Hope she gets better soon

I am just seeing this for the first time. Glad that it seems to be getting better. When you touch it with the cotton suave does she flinch like it might hurt?

Yeah she has flinched a little bunnytoes bless her. Though as its underneath the tongue I kind of have to get it under the tongue without looking which is tricky, pretty sure i do get it under though even just for a second.

Yeah if she goes off other stuff I'd be worried about stasis which is obviously the worst thing ever for a lil bun, so i'd go to vets in that case for molar checking etc.

Right now she's the happiest I've seen in ages! Even before this whole ordeal, she's been binkying, running around excitedly, getting more happy by the day! Getting her some more of her favourite oat hay tomorrow... I wonder if it was ulcers if they can clear up on their own without any more irritation. I guess I will have to see what she's like day by day...

I'm the same as you Vegan, a worry wart sedation is defo last resort for me too

Personally I think that you are doing the like thing for her checking her day by day but if she stops eating her hay or acts to be in pain I would take her to the more savvy vet that you mentioned instead of letting her vet sedate her. Poor baby. I worry like crazy too about my rabbit and bird.

Thanks Bunnytoes... She's good again today, very healthy appetite for veggies and hay, just not pellets.. Although the pellets look as though they have been moved around, but as I put some broc deliberately on top of them im not sure if they just got moved when she ate the broc.. I will have to think of other ways to entice her into eating them! :?:shock:

I took some pics last night of her antics

Being naughty, as she knows she's not really allowed on the sofa (she tends to wee on it!)




She really .. errr... loves her ball!


Playing with her new reed ball, she throws it seriously high!

Awe..............she is a beautiful rabbit. She looks very happy and active. She really can throw the ball.

How is she now? Just a question, is she spayed? If not this might help with the weeing on the sofa and toy humping issues!
Shes beautiful btw, hope alls well
xxx