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First Rabbit Lecture!

VikkiVet

VikkiVet

Mama Doe
Had my first rabbit-orientated lecture today - "anaesthetics in small furries" :lol::lol::lol:

It was really good though - they guy was great in going through how to handle rabbits properly, to cuddle them up securely to prevent stress and kicking etc.

He briefly mentioned the hypnosis technique and its benefits in anaesthetic induction - can even replace pre-med apparently! One of my friends did her final year project in this, so it would be interesting to see the results.

What interested me most was that the anaesthetic risk for rabbits is 0.72 compared to dogs which is 0.05 but 60% of these are due to unknown causes and occur post-operatively!! :shock::shock:

Does this imply that something else is going on in terms of metabolising the anaesthetic agents and coming around, or that we are just pretty poor at monitoring rabbits after surgery????
 
Glad I haven't got any buns booked in for ops this week after reading that :?

I have lost a couple under GA for no apparent reason, PM's showed nothing obvious. All the others have had underlying health problems. I guess in 12 years that not so bad. Doesn't stop me worrying though :lol:
 
maybe the post op thing is because they go so long without food and the guts just never kick start again, as well as the stress of a major op and the stress of actually going to the vets.. not fun to be a prey animal :cry:
 
perhaps - but as they aren't starved, and most such deaths occur in the first 3 hours, you wouldnt have thought it was due to stasis/bloat. And most vets do give metaclop....:?
 
first 3 hours :shock::( i was thinking them coming home and just never getting better. could it be the hearts? i think Pearl didnt come around as fast as they expected and 2 years later shes found to have heart issues :(

must be amazing to be learning how to be a vet :love::love::love:
 
God, it scares me that they die after they come round! I assumed they just went under the anaesthetic! I live in total fear of it every month.

Is the hypnosis technique you mentioned trancing?
 
We lost Austin as he came round, a PM showed nothing. The other 2 went at the start of the ops, their Pm's also revealed nothing :?
 
i dont know what happens - he didnt say whether they arrest or are found dead when checked etc. Just seems so shocking and sad to get them through surgery only to die soon after.

I do wonder if rabbits just need a lot more monitoring and post-op care compared to cats and dogs, but vets/nurses dont realise.

I'll be watching like a hawk when i start doing surgery!!
 
Probably caused by Post Stress Myopathy.i've come across this in deer who die days after being injured/captured and just when you think they have got over the worst.:(
Nothing to do with the anaesthetic gases and metabolising them
 
I wonder whether the ease with which they frighten to death has something to do with it?
I'm thinking of the buns which die untouched, out of sheer terror of a fox stoat or weasel. In some cases, where humans have intervened, it was found to be due to cardiac dysrythmia in an otherwise healthy bun. Obviously cardiac dysrythmia doesn't show at pm. I can only speak for humans that a beta blocker reduces the effect of adrenaline on the myocardium, but we're a long way from making that assumption.

Is there any reduction in risk between those buns which are treated in a completely separate area from predators - cats & dogs & those which aren't?

Please check on this, but I thought that a study of cortisone levels on tranced buns showed them to be just as stressed as non tranced buns.

Please tell us if you find out any answers.
 
Rabbits are prey animals. Their bodies act and react so differently to hunters like cats and dogs. :(

And yes, I've also heard that trancing can have just as bad effect. It's a fear response so... :?
 
Time to post this link again I think:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7468753.stm

"Anaesthetists have known for some time that certain drugs, such as the gas isoflurane, while very effective at rendering and keeping patients unconscious, are actually irritant chemicals.

Some already use a painkilling drug to lessen this effect before delivering the anaesthetic itself.

The latest finding, by research staff at Georgetown University Medical Center however, suggests that effects of the irritant is not just short-lived, but lingers on long after both the painkiller and the anaesthetic have worn off."

Although it relates to the use of isoflurane anaesthetics in humans, it may well have a relevance to rabbits in view of their ability to hide pain.

I don't know if this research was noted by vets, but I'd be interested to know what your lecturer makes of it.
 
Very interesting. They do say that all anaesthetics are poisons, as you are disrupting the normal function of a variety of body tissues. Rabbits are usually knocked down with Hypnorm or similar, which can be injected or inhaled so any irritant would depend on route of administration. they are given analgesia and fluids normally too.

perhaps its something to do with being stoic and not showing any external signs of distress until its too late? perhaps they should keep the monitors on for longer in recovery?
 
thumps_ said:
Please check on this, but I thought that a study of cortisone levels on tranced buns showed them to be just as stressed as non tranced buns.
Click to expand...
I also thought this-serum cortisone levels are very high in post trance bunnies-which would lead me to think of Post Stress Myopathy.Perhaps when recovering from an anaesthetic it would help if "recovery" was dimly lit-not ideal for post op checks I know :? but would it benefit the bunny?


http://www.scribd.com/doc/20852092/Stress-and-Capture-Myopathy-in-Hares

I know this study centres on hares but it mentions rabbits as well
 
I don't really know too much about bunny medicine, but i do know the effects that anestetics have on humans. It makes myself and most of the family extreamly ill afterwards delaying recovery.

There is nothing to show what causes it, but my grandma was seriously ill after her second knee op recently (The first one no probs at all.) The doctor came to the conclusion that each anaesthesiologist has their own way of mixing and creating the drugs and has their own preferred drugs and they think that is what made her so poorly, The cocktail didn’t agree with her.

Could there be a similar situation with bunnies?? I've had all of mine under with no issues at all.


Also any drug is a poison it just depends how your body will react to the poison
 
A key factor is hypoxia - low blood oxygen levels. A study carried out by a colleague showed that if you treat rabbits in recovery the same way as cats and dogs then 50% are hypoxic.
Low oxygen decreases brain oxygenation and homeostatic response (ability to adapt to different situations and keep physiology stable), and combined with increased carbon dioxide levels, bunnies' poor ability to compensate and stress, increases the risk of cardiac arryhythmias, which then compromises the heart's ability to move oxygen round the body.
Providing ongoing oxygen and minimising stress will dramatically decrease perioperative anaesthetic complications.
I also worry that if people aren't used to anaesthetising/monitoring bunnies they don't know the subtle changes that suggest intervention is needed. Plus many vets in normal practice don't routinely have intravenous access and use endotracheal intubation so have limited control over the anaesthetic.

Isoflurane is an irritant but only when in direct contact with mucous membranes - only relevant if masking/chamber inducing mammals which is now rarely done.
 
Thank you so much Marie.
It's wonderful news for us & our rabbits, because anaesthetic risk can be reduced relatively simply.
 
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