feeling like... UD - post 25

a rubbish owner right now... I just don't know what I am doing wrong

Its to do with Noisette... she's suffering from a hind leg abscess, which at the moment is being treated pretty well with daily Baytril injections. I don't know what I am doing wrong, but her back is covered in scabs I've ran out of space to inject her, and even where she doesn't have scabs, her skin has hardened... I've tried everything to stop it from happening... changing the needle from drawing out of the vial and injecting, down to using different types of needles. The vets told me its normal, and i've sort of just accepted its a side affect of the Baytril, but it can't go on like this for the rest of her life

I tried putting on the dog t shirt, and it lasted two days. She slipped out of it, and as soon as she did, Oscar REALLY went for the scabs, and her back was bleeding I've cleaned it up with saline, smothered her scabs in germoline and put the dog t shirt back on, I am praying she doesn't slip out of it again...

I want to talk to my vet about changing her abx to a different one, which doesn't have this scabbing side effect. Can you do that with a long term abscess? I remember the vet saying she didn't want to operate on her, but I can't remember the reason for it.

I'm just feeling so bad... she knows when its medication time, and she will do anything do get away from me. She has improved SO MUCH since being on daily injections of Baytril, and has really kept the abscess down to basically nothing, but its just the scabs on her back which are getting really bad Seeing the vet again this sunday, so I have got all paws crossed there will be something positive out of it.

How have people coped with buns with chronic abscesses? Have they lived a healthy normal life with them? I am getting paranoid about it all :roll:

I sympathise. I had to give Fliis, our respiratory rat, baytril and the vet asked if I wanted to give it orally or by injection. I said injection and about 5 mins after the first one she got a big sore and continued to scratch it until it was huge. I used sudocream on it which helped and changed immediately onto oral baytril- could you not do the same.
Another option, would be to take a sample and send it off to find out which antibiotic the bacteria is susceptable to and then treat her with that. The chances are there will be a choice and you can try something other than baytril.

thank you for the reply

She is being injected a massive amount of Baytril though - 3mls daily! I shall have to ask about oral Baytril though, but I would have thought it would affect her gut with having such a huge amount every day? I will definatley ask about it!

And does a sample mean operating on the abscess to get a culture? I am really apprehensive to put her under GA though... just because she is extremely statis prone, and the littlest things set her off. She has improved so much lately though This might be my only hope though to get her off the baytril...

Firstly, you are not a rubbish owner. You are only doing that which is necessary to keep her in good health. Sometimes buns can have reactions to injections. Our 4 year old doe had a couple of Baytril injections in January and had the same reaction. It is not ongoing but is taking a long time to heal and she is now on oral doses.

A few years ago our male had scabs on his back and his girl picked and licked at them so they didn't heal. We bought a baby's singlet and although he pulled it off when it was fully on, he left it alone when we put his front legs through the arms and let it sit like a cape.

I have only ever treated head abscesses long-term and always used Depocillin by injection which didn't cause any skin reactions. Poor girl that is an awful lot of Baytril. With Depocillin our 2Kg bun's dose was only 0.25mls.

I don't know whether bunnies can have samples for a culture and sensitivity by way of FNA (fine needle aspirate). It is common with reptiles and is usually performed without anaesthetic.

Living with abscesses is testing at the best of times, but long term antibiotics seems the only current effective treatment.

aw big hugs, your not a rubbish owner if you where you wouldn't be posting here. i really have no adivce for you, i hope she heals up soon. you could try manuka honey on the scabs instead, it heals scabs so quickly and very soothing for bunnies. sending loads of get well vibes.

Have you tried Pming Liz ir Jane? I know they both have injecting buns.....
I would maybe try manouka too...although don't the buns try to eat it?

I'd definitely switch from the sub-q Baytril to something else...perhaps depocillin like Lobo suggested?

It's not nice to have to inject them at all, but it really can't be pleasant if it's causes sores on her back.

Rather than manuka honey, I would try aloe vera gel, just because it won't be as sticky.

I assume the abscess site is open, if so a sample would be easy to take, or as said a FNA. If she were to be given oral baytril, I would also give fibreplex, or another probiotic to support her tummy bacteria.

Do you dilute the Baytril, 50.50 with sterile saline ? That should make a huge difference.

i really feel for you, i know what its like to feel rubbish and have a rabbit class you as satan at drug time, or any time when you appear in thier world

hope your vet can give you some different drugs that dont cause the scabs xxx

Lobo - she's a giant bunny, weighs 6kgs but she's underweight at the moment. She used to be on depocillin, but didn't respond to it very well, and and soon as she was moved onto the 3mls Baytril her abscess reduced so much in size! She had a awful limp before and refused to put any weight on her hind leg, but now its like there is nothing wrong! The leg where she has her abcess does feel slightly bigger than her good leg, but would that be because of the thick abscess membrane?

I will definitely have a word with the vet about a C&S test using FSA... I haven't been offered it before though :? Hetty mentioned using Manuka Honey on her scabs, I found some in the cupboard, but it doesn't say what strength it is, and it contains bee venom... so I'll give that one a miss :shock: Its not like her scabs are an normal ones... they are like burns and look very painful. Its why I am getting so worried about it.

Halfpenny - Her abscess is fully closed.... it has never been opened!

thanks so much guys xxxx

I was going to suggest trying depocillin but I see you've already tried that...no advice here just vibes for you both

You say the scabs look like burns...people usually call it Baytril burn, but the "burns" are sterile abscesses, at the injection sites. They do heal on their own, but are almost eliminated by diluting the drug.

scroll down to the enro information

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

thank you Gem xx

Mudgy said:

You say the scabs look like burns...people usually call it Baytril burn, but the "burns" are sterile abscesses, at the injection sites. They do heal on their own, but are almost eliminated by diluting the drug.

scroll down to the enro information

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

Click to expand...

:shock::shock: oooh I didn't know about that! I will discuss this also with my vet... this might be a good starting point! I'm going to need a massive list to show her what I need to talk about :roll: :lol: I would feel awful injecting her with 6mls of fluid

Wouldn't her Baytril already be diluted? Its 2.5% in solution?

Those side affects are shocking though... especially the seizures :shock: However, going by the dosage of a dog, she is getting 2.5mg per kilo, so I understand now why her dosage is so high!

coco1200 said:

thank you Gem xx



:shock::shock: oooh I didn't know about that! I will discuss this also with my vet... this might be a good starting point! I'm going to need a massive list to show her what I need to talk about :roll: :lol: I would feel awful injecting her with 6mls of fluid

Click to expand...

6mls is virtually nothing. If you have a rabbit in stasis, you need to inject about 30mls of fluid around 3 times a day. Noisette will hardly even notice such a small increase

Can't you put a divider between them so they can kind of interact but not get to each other?

No advice but just wanted to say you come across as a brilliant owner and it sounds like you are doing all you can

You still dilute with sterile saline, whatever the strength. Something about Baytril seems to cause necrosis at the injection site. 6mls, is still a very small amount to inject, and I'm sure she will be very pleased that the payoff for a larger injection, will mean a much less sore back.

Hey Janak, you're doing a great job, don't feel bad

Dilution will probably help, even if it just distributes the baytril under the skin more evenly.

You could also try aloe vera gel for the scabs, warm saline bathing and there is some herbal thing for skin regrowth and repair - forget what its called but you might find it if you google it. I'd also try to get her weight back up if possible, as this will give her immunity a boost and help her heal faster - have you tried her on porridge?

If the t-shrt comes off then maybe a baby vest of appropriate size would work better? a bit more snug?

Just to say Toadstool's abscess has really been helped by the manuka honey (factor 25 from online stockist). Overnight the entrance to it went from red/angry looking to pale pink and the amount of stuff I'm syringing out of the abscess twice a day :mrgreen: has reduced to a tenth of what it was. Has the vet lanced the abscess? If it's sealed I would have thought it would be more likely to spread? With Toadstool I'm emptying it then packing it with the honey. Do hope you get some helpful answers from your vet :wave:

ETA The manuka honey must be for medical purposes - apparently you can buy it for domestic use too but then it hasn't been sterilised in the right way...