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methicillin resistant staph in his nose

purplebumble

Warren Veteran
bertie was very ill again yesterday..not eating etc and i took him to see ellen and she also gave me the results of the swabs.

i was horrfied...not only was it was pastuerela but also methicillin resistant staph:shock: she assured me it wasnt actually MRSA tho.

im shocked and stunned..she says its very contagious to other buns but then some would get it..some wouldnt...same as pastuerella.

theone thing to knock it dead would be gentamyacin...but not only is it not safe for dogs and cats..theres no history of its use on rabbits. it causes kidney malfucntions and failure in dogs n cats so would prob be even worse with buns i gues.

im stunned..i tried surfing the net but it keeps coming up as mrsa and she said it wasnt mrsa......but a staph that occurs naturaly in all buns but only becomes a problem when they become very ill etc.

personally i think the stress of bif beating him up daily then the stress of her going into hopsital for a few days and him ining has been the bugbear..on top of his eye ulcer hes had ongoing treatment for until a few months back.

would that be enough to bring his imune system down.

shes told me to use up the lat few days of baytril and then taper off the metacam and keep to what shes trying..gentamyacin eye drops..she said in buns itd trickle into nose eventually hopefully .

she then wants to assess bertie to see what else maybe behind all this to begin with or see how at least hes responding.

everywhere online says immune compromised folks can get it. not to let your animal lick you etc..how can you stop kissing and cuddling your pet and getting a i love you wash off your bunny. berties a very cuddly hands on bunny.

but last night for the first night in weeks he slept up the other end of the lounge and didnt get in the beanbag next to me on the floor and demand cuddles and hugs. he didnt follow me aorund and to the toilet today either..so far so good. hes been norty tho..i got his baytril and eye drops done but he wouldnt play ball with the metaclop or metacam..and ive got to bathe his eys again and give him some more cirtical care.

she said his tummy was empty and not much poops there either but oculdnt find anything actually wrong with him so the good ole regime of metaclop..metacam and syringe feeding. hes eaten sone pelelts last night and overngint and he has pooed. so fingers crossed.

but the staph infections worried me sick. anyone possibly able to help me understand more or had experience?
 
i think maybe wat she was trying to explain is..altho it is methicilln resistant staph...its a colonization in his nsoe..not actually sores lesions rotting nsoe etc.
its hard as shes dutch and her english is darned good but soemtimes i guess its tricky and me being in such a shocked state too and lack of sleep..i guess i should have understood better.


i am going to ring her mon as i have been desperately searching online and treatment is doxcylcine....(vibramycin) with the gentamycin eye drops to trickle down the tear dicts to the nose as she has already done.

his nose has been pretty wet..his eyes runny at times and his sneezings still bad but not like it was. his baytril is now all used up..hes had no metacam for today.

hes eating..ive stoped the metaclop syrup and his last syringe feed was last night.

im on a real downer depression wise since yesterday...im not good company for him poor old soul.
 
I have heard of gentamycin, & even chloramphenicol eye drops being used completely safely in buns in this situation. :D
I confess that I was also more than surprised.

If it's a Methycillin Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus it's MRSA.
But there are different subtypes of MRSA & some are much more invasive than others. I expect she means that this type is not highly invasive.

From time to time hospital staff carry Staph A in their noses without any illness whatsoever. Staff in contact with at risk patients have regular nose swabs, & those carrying staph are treated with a simple AB cream to eliminate the bacteria.
 
Perhaps give Claire a ring and see what she'd suggest and then you can go back to your vet?
 
yes hun im going to do that monday.

hes sneezing but not as bad and so far..no white nose goop;)

seems im alone even on a huge forum like this having a bunny with mrsa in his nose:(
 
You aren't alone purplebumble. I know someone else, but the MRSA was the highly invasive type, & in a different breed of rabbits to yours.
 
I, sorry for you Purplebumble, sending lots of strength vibes for you and your lilttle bunster. I hope he gets better soon
 
I would say I'd pop over but I'm not sure how easily spreadable it is and I can't risk Harley as the moment :(

Shout if you need anything though :wave:
 
Staph infection

Hi,

I have just read about your bunny and thought I would let you know that I had a culture and sensitivity test done on one of my rabbits over a year ago who had pseudomas, staphlococus and a few other strains of bacteria - they are quite common in rabbits but usually some other illness sets them off. Anyway, I was prescribed gentamicin and to cut a long story short I nearly lost my rabbit to pneumonia but found an exotic pet vet who is fantastic and saved his life. Firstly, you are right gentamicin is very harsh and can cause problems and I was advised to stop this. My vet put my rabbit on streptacare - used for cattle - plus large doses of metacam. My rabbit was very ill - he did not drink for months and would only eat carrot tops but he pulled through. Most vets will say do not put a rabbit with bacterial infection with another one but my vet said it would be ok. I have had 2 infected rabbits that have lived ok with their partners who have not caught anthing but of course I am no expert so would not guarantee anything.

I am not sure what your rabbit has but if you want any more information, let me know. My rabbit never looked for food while he was ill - I had to hand feed him everything but it was worth it.

Best wishes Sally
 
I wonder whether there is a little confusion here.
Purplebumble is giving the gentamycin as eye drops. The amount is so small that by the time it has been diluted by nasal mucus & stomach contents there is little effect on the gut bacteria.

Similarly antibiotics which would have a catastrophic effect on the gut bacteria can be given by injection.

My friend gives engermycin by subcutaneous injection to a bun with nasal MRSA & gave ceporex by injection to a bun with MRSA paw abscess.

The best choices of antibiotic are usually given by the lab in the results of the c&s test. Discs impregnated with antibiotics in common use are in the culture plate. The best antibiotic stops bacterial growth for the widest area around the disc. However a good doctor knows that certain antibiotics are superior to others in certain situations. This also affects the final choice.

I think that Lily Mai might have a slightly different situation bacteriologically, because of the mixed growth & especially the presence of pseudomonas (was this pyocyaneus - a bluish green pus?)


The most recent concept is that the key to treating snuffles is to get the secretions of the upper airways to drain effectively, as well as controlling infection.
Antibiotics are needed in the blood stream by mouth or injection, as well as in the nasal secretions, by eye drops, or nebilizer.
Non steroidal anti inflammatory drugs eg metacam are needed to reduce soft tissue swelling.
Mucus needs to be thinned (made more runny) with a mucolytic eg bisolvon.
A nebulizer is highly effective for thinning mucus as well as giving antibiotics to the nose & sinuses, as an alternative to eye drops. However it may not be possible to give the Ab's effective for MRSA via nebulizer. It is far cheaper to buy your own.
Although there is no scientific evidence that it works, some bunny mummies give the herbal remedy echinacea to boost the bun's immune system - usually 5 days of echinacea & 2 days rest.
Treatment should be continued for a minimum of 6 weeks for milder cases.

Dust control is very important. (obviously dust & thick nasal secretions sets like concrete)

How does the nasal mucus get uphill & into the back of the throat?
The membrane has microscopic hairs - cilia which propel the mucus carpet in the right direction. If the infecting bacteria kill these cells they are replaced by scar tissue which has no cilia. The scars can form pockets which trap thick mucus. Trapped thick mucus allows bacteria to multiply to levels where they start to invade. That is why the key to treatment is to get the secretions to drain effectively.
Sudden drops of temperature are best avoided because they can cause soft tissue swelling in the nose, thereby blocking drainage.
 
Bacterial infections

Yes, Lily-Mai does get confused (thats what 6 rabbits does to you I am afraid) and is certainly no expert on bacterial infections but thought my experience might be able to help in some way.

My rabbit was actually treated with gentamycin eye drops and injections for what started as an eye infection - gentamycin was the antibiotic that showed up on the culture and sensitivity test to use but later stopped due to a Professor in Bristol advising so. It was to treat the pseudomonas. The rabbit then got pneumonia and the exotic vet looked at the results, x-rays etc and was more concerned about treating the staphlococcus (however you spell it) that was when he put him on streptacare for a long time.

I read all sorts of things about how to isolate the rabbit in case of my other rabbits or me catching anything but quite frankly the exotic vet did not seem over concerned as he said a lot of rabbits carry these bacteria but it is only when they have another problem it is set off - I guess a bit like ileus.

The most important thing I learnt from this is that go with your gut instinct - if you are not happy with the treatment go to another vet as I know that 3 of my rabbits would be dead by now if I had stayed with my old vet. The first vet that examined my rabbit with pneumonia told me that we had to remove all his teeth to make him better - there was nothing wrong with his teeth!

I have just had a rabbit diagnosed with heart disease - he was fine apart from the fact that he had stopped tearing around the house oh
and he makes a terrible noise when breathing but he had a cracked rib when I got him from the rescue place and snuffles (which was treated). Anyway, my vet did an x-ray and found his heart was enlarged - he is only a year so it is more likely to be a consequence of the bacterial infection rather than old age. He is on heart medication, metacam and frusol twice a day and doing ok. I wonder if anyone else out there has experience of heart disease in rabbits as I know it is in its infancy in the medical world and cannot find much information on it. The most frustrating thing is I know he will not get better and do not know how long he has.

Any advise would be most welcome.
 
Lily - Mai I'm sorry if I seemed to put you down. I do not have experience in prescribing for animals, but a life time of prescribing for humans. The principals are the same.
Very few people are aware of how antibiotics are chosen. In animals vets are only supposed to use human AB's when those for rabbits haven't worked! In fact it's early days in using antibiotics previously reserved for humans in rabbits. There's difference of opinion between the rabbit specialist vets.;)

It sounds as if your bun has scarred heart valves from bacterial infection, possibly with blood clot adherent to them. I expect that the vet term would be subacute bacterial endocarditis. There are buns with current cardiac valve illness I do not know of any with SBE. You may like to look in search, or start your own thread. Your knowledge of rabbits is invaluable to us.

My vet works partly in Swindon & partly in Bristol, & is highly trained in exotics too. The advice I gave previously is based on discussions with her, & is also a new advance in treatment, now used by several top rabbit vets across the country.
 
Heart Disease

Thanks for the information, I will look up SBE later. If he has got a blood clot will the medication keep that under control do you think. He has been on the medication for about a month now and has only just started to be more active and get his appetite back so I presume the medication took a long time to work. His breathing sounds better but he does make awful sounds like he is congested and then does a huge sneezy cough which clears everything for a while. Yes, perhaps I will start a thread when I find out how to.

Just out of interest, have you heard of Uniphyllin - I think this is used on humans - one of my rabbits is on it to open up his airways after infections and scarring on his lungs which seems to be working wonders.
 
Just thought I'd add my experiences of C&S for bacterial infections in rabbits...

IME most rabbit C&S tests show sensitivity to baytril, when in reality we know that illnesses such as abscesses and snuffles are very rarely cured by baytril.

So if you have a C&S done which shows baytril to be effective, you'd be well advised to use another antibiotic as well.
 
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