• Forum/Server Upgrade If you are reading this you have made it to the upgraded forum. Posts made on the old forum after 26th October 2023 have not been transfered. Everything else should be here. If you find any issues please let us know.

E.C survey - input please

pooks

Warren Scout
I'm planning on writing something for all my bunny clients at work (vet practice) about E.cuniculi, as many of them are not educated on the dangers, signs etc.
I would just like some input from you bunny lovers and ask the following questions:

1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?

4) What information would you have found helpful?

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?

I would very much like to hear what you all have to say as i don't feel that EC is given enough press - we all worm our dogs and cats don't we??!!

Thanks everyone
 
Thank you very much for that link - i will have a good read!

I was also interested to know what people's experience of EC was? In terms of veterinary support and knowledge?
 
EC was brought up at the last RWAF conference, the notes from that may be helpful to you. They are aavailable from the RWAF website.
 
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?
Yes, when my Kermit first was ill he had Head Tilt, nystygmus, rolling.....he was permanatly left with head tilt
2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?
I found that the vets had limited experience of a bunny with EC, i probably taught them more going through kermits illness
3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
Yes! I bought Kermit from PAH (first bunny, totally clueless) I feel that if i had been told about panacur i could possibly have prevented this
4) What information would you have found helpful?
Basically everything ive been told on this forum!
5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
My Kermit passed, i now have Herbie & Inca, they came from rescue and have been panacured, and i will be doing it regularly.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
Panacur paste, find it very easy to give on food.
 
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

Yes Minstrel had E.C. The first symptom he had was loss of use of his back legs. Once he had seen the vet we found out he had also lost his sight.


2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

Minstrel had three episodes of this in the space of 2 months and each time all the vet did was give a steroid, and 9 days of panacur.


3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
Yes, he should have had 28 days of panacur (as should his friend Twix), I should have been told about the cleaning out of the hutch with bleach etc on specific dates. I should have also been given some painkiller. It makes me wonder if we would still have him today if we'd had all this treatment too.

4) What information would you have found helpful?
See Above

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
Yes, 3-4 times a year.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
I use Panacur because it's what the vet gave us.
 
Thank you so much for the replies so far. I will be using the info you give to help me provide clients with an info pack for if their bunny has EC. I also plan to send out letters explaining EC and its treatment to all our bunny clients.

If anyone else wishes to add their bunny info, please do so as it will help enormously.

Many Thanks
 
This will probably be long, but will give you an idea of the rubbishness of some vets.

1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?
Yes, my bridge bun Charlie. He dragged his legs behind in the one day, we took him to the emergency vet round the corner from our house but by the time we got there he was fine. The emergency vet basically told us to stop wasting his time, that was the Saturday. I was intending to take him to my proper vet on Monday just to be on the safe side. Then on the Sunday we found him stuck on his side flapping around like a fish out of water - absolutely heartbreaking :cry:.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?
It was Sunday so we took him to the emergency vet round the corner, who told us he'd probably had a stroke and would need to be PTS. I asked about EC and he basically shooed me out of the surgery. So I called my normal surgery, got the number for their out of hours emergency vet (its at a different surgery) and went there. They told me he'd probably had a stroke and cos he was almost 8 years old there was nothing they could do for him, and implied he should be PTS there and then. I asked about EC and they basically didn't listen. I asked them to do as I asked and to give him painkillers/anti inflammatories, steroids and painkillers. They did and wanted to keep him in and put him on a drip, and would transfer him to my usual vet first thing the next day.

My usual vet was brilliant - by the time he called me he'd already put Charlie on panacur and metachlopramide, and he continued the painkillers and steroids. He said it was probably EC but might also be a severe inner ear infection - he xrayed Charlie's head to try to work it out. Charlie lived at the vets (with my vet visiting him through the night) for a week, was then a day patient for a fortnight so they could keep an eye on him while I was at work. He was left tilted but that went away after a year or so. He lived for almost 3 more years before we had to say goodbye to him at the grand old age of 10 and a half.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
Luckily, I already knew a fair bit from reading about other peoples experiences on here.

4) What information would you have found helpful?
I learned more things from looking after Charlie - like he was most comfy if I could wedge him with things so he didn't keep rolling over, and to wedge him whicever way his head said was up, even if that meant he was infact upside down. Holding him in my arms was the only way to keep him calm at one point. I think also I hadn't realised just how long it was going to take for him to get better, and that we had to just keep going and not give up hope.

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
Yes. Probably 3 times a year, or if they're going somewhere ie the bunny sitter, or when Charlie was PTS I immediately wormed Lavender incase she was stressed and also cos she would potentially be meeting a new bun (then I wormed Darwin as soon as he arrived at our house). I'm probably over cautious!

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
I buy panacur rabbit (ie the paste in the tubes) and put it in the middle of things (such as sugar snaps peas, or thes elittle buscuit treats that I open and fill with panacur). I buy it in bulk from http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_43&products_id=1105&zenid=muaouuoeb0htr6fc4urmd1aph0. I use this cos its what the vet originally used, he gave me the liquid cat (or maybe dog) one but the paste is easier to administer.

Hope this is the sort of thing you were after. Sorry its so long!
 
Thanks Bevbunny! That was very informative at not at all long.
I'm so sorry your bunny has gone but its great that you nursed him through and he had another 3 years!!

Can i ask, you say you were surprised at how long it took him to recover - how long exactly did it take?
Also, did your vet ever confirm a diagnosis of EC or did he never truly discover what caused it?

ps, i'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with the other vets
 
Can i ask, you say you were surprised at how long it took him to recover - how long exactly did it take?
He was flipping over all the time for about 4 days, then he just seemed to lie on his side. A few days later he started to lift his head up and it wasn't until about day 8 that he could right himself and stand up, and then a few days later he could just about hop but was all over the place. It just seemed to take so long for him to get back. This pic is him at about day 11 when we first let him have a hop around, he'd wobble over to a wall or something and just sit there leaning up it. It probably took 2 and a half weeks befor ehe could hop around withouth falling over all the time, he then continued to fall over every so often for several months. His head was only ever slightly tilted as you can see in the pic, and the head tilt lasted about a year.
IMG_0209.jpg


Throughout it all he was calmest when we held him like this:
IMG_0212.jpg


Also, did your vet ever confirm a diagnosis of EC or did he never truly discover what caused it?
He was confident that it was EC but obviously a blood test wasn't going to show it as buns carry it anyhow. The xray didn't show any abnormality in his ears and the vet was convinced it would have shown something if it had been an ear infection severe enough to give the symptoms that Charlie had.
 
Last edited:
I asked my vet about worming when I adopted him & I was advised to consult them for a worming treatment if I saw any signs of worms in his droppings, but otherwise not to worm.

Should I be regularly worming him?
I'm seeing the bunny nurse on Mon so I can raise it with her.


....................................
Edited to complete the questionaire.. I hope this helps because unfortunately (& worryingly) I've never heard of this before :(
I'm a new bunny mummy.


1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?
No

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?
N/A

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
Wasn't aware that it's a parasite & there are preventative treatments until I saw this

4) What information would you have found helpful?
To know what EC is, what the symptoms are & how best to prevent it

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
No - but I will be asking my vet/bunny nurse on Monday

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
N/A


I would like to add that my bunny had an enlarged liver shortly after he was rescued & before I adopted him & he was treated with Panacur & since then he has been fine; I was told he'd have no ongoing problems but I never thought to ask what they were treating him for.
 
Last edited:
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

Yes, my bun Vinnie is currently recovering from it. The first sign was dragging her back legs, I took her to the vet. (see vet section)

About 2 months later she started dragging her legs again and having incontinence problems, but when I went up to her she hopped away. I went to work, and when I got back she was hiding - she normally comes out to say hello. I lifted what she was hiding under, she tried to get up and just flopped on her side and couldn't stand up, was lying in a puddle of her own urine, so back to vet.


2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

Originally was told it could be a slipped vertabrae or EC, vet put bun on medication for both as he said there was no conclusive test for EC and that the vertabrae may not show up on an x-ray leading to an incorrect conclusion. She got a 9-day panacur course and metacam. Vet said to stop the panacur after the 9 days an carry on with the metacam, keep a close eye and let him know if she got worse.

She was fine for around 2 months and then went drastically downhill again, whereupon vet gave a 28 day course of panacur, baytril and told me to continue with the metacam. She is now improving every day. I was told throughout to keep her clean and dry and to let her eat however much she wanted as she had lost nearly 50% of her body weight. I used nappies for a while as it was much less stressful than continually cleaning her. Vet was very helpful throughout and very informative. He was surprised at how quickly Vinnie responded to the first course of treatment (back to hopping in 3 days) and the length of time between the apparent recovery and relapse (nearly 2 months).

Was also told by vet I could worm as a preventative measure.



3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?

No, I have read quite a lot about the condition after having it with a previous bun, the only issues I had were with managing the incontinence, information for which I found on RU :)

4) What information would you have found helpful?

See above

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?

I will be now!

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?

Panacur. It's what the vet gave me and is easy to obtain. The long syringe point does make it easier to administer.
 
Last edited:
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

I had a bunny about 8 years ago who was diagnosed with EC, she had no symptoms apart from the incontinence which caused us to take her to the vet. She had also never stood on just her back paws (to stand 'up') or attempted to flop, neither of which I thought unusual as she was my first rabbit.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

Local vet referred me to a bigger practice as he had no idea. He didn't waste time faffing about which was nice. New vet took x-rays and confirmed EC. He didn't call it EC however, said it was a parasite which was in the blood and caused problems with the central nervous system. She was given injections (sorry I can't remember what of) weekly but no daily worming treatment.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?

I wasn't aware of head tilt, eye problems and leg dragging resulting from EC, also the vet did not make it clear from the start that it was a difficult case and that she may not survive. (She had to be put to sleep.) I also did not know worming medication would help, although the vet may not have been aware either.

4) What information would you have found helpful?

See above.

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?

She had to be PTS. But I will be worming my current bun.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?

N/A
 
I asked my vet about worming when I adopted him & I was advised to consult them for a worming treatment if I saw any signs of worms in his droppings, but otherwise not to worm.

Should I be regularly worming him?
I'm seeing the bunny nurse on Mon so I can raise it with her.

I wouldn't wait for this, why wait until the bunny has worms to do something? Worming is recommended as a preventative measure against worms and EC (a parasite). I didn't know this until my current bun got EC and I wish I had known before! I'd recommend it, definitely. Leaflet says 2-4 times yearly for 9 days at a time.
 
I wouldn't wait for this, why wait until the bunny has worms to do something? Worming is recommended as a preventative measure against worms and EC (a parasite). I didn't know this until my current bun got EC and I wish I had known before! I'd recommend it, definitely. Leaflet says 2-4 times yearly for 9 days at a time.


Thanks honey, I edited my above post... my bun was treated with Panacur before I adopted him but I didn't know what it was or what he was being treated for & now I'm feeling annoyed that they've left me in the dark & about the whole worming thing.
I did tell the vet I was a new bunny owner & they're supposed to be bunny 'savvy'.
I'm seeing the 'bunny nurse' on Monday, her speciality is rabbits & she's taken loads of courses as well as having buns herself (she adores them) so I will raise this with her & find out what she's got to say regarding her vet.
It's a big practice but I know the name of the vet I saw (not my usual one) & I can tell her who it was that gave me that advice - hopefully she'll give him a good telling off :censored:
 
now I'm feeling annoyed that they've left me in the dark & about the whole worming thing.
I did tell the vet I was a new bunny owner & they're supposed to be bunny 'savvy'.

Some vets will be more bunny savvy than others, ask and see which one is best. Your nurse should know :) And don't be afraid to ask questions! I've only ever had one vet (my current) who volunteered information, all others I've had to ask. Write any questions you want to know down and take the list with you. :D
Here's a link on EC http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-2/e-cuniculi.html and another less medical-orientated one http://www.ebonyeyes.co.uk/aspbite/categories/index.asp?intCatID=268 I think I've seen the rescue Ebony Eyes on this site...
 
Thanks :)

I've saved those links for the morning cos I need to sleep - but geez, what would I do without u guys here :love:

I really feel for those bunnies whos owners aren't members &/or don't have access to this kind of information, poor things.
A little knowledge is a wonderful thing.
 
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

Yes, pronounced head tilt and difficulty with balance

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

Pretty much. They said it was either EC or ear infection and he had Baytril, steroid (?) injections and Panacur

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?

I don't think so. I hadn't known about it before that but I hadn't really done enough research before I got my first bunny.

4) What information would you have found helpful?

Oddly, feeding tea! I found the tip online and did it and it seemed to help.

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?

Yes - all of them

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?

Panacur
 
I wouldn't wait for this, why wait until the bunny has worms to do something? Worming is recommended as a preventative measure against worms and EC (a parasite). I didn't know this until my current bun got EC and I wish I had known before! I'd recommend it, definitely. Leaflet says 2-4 times yearly for 9 days at a time.

Worming rabbits for 9 days at a time is now outdated information and is now proven that it does not work. AT the RWAF conference last year very different information was given as a result of new research which had been done by some vets. Thorough cleaning twice within the treatment period is now also recommened as the only way of preventing reinfection of the rabbits. Sadly some vets are not up to date with this information.

The only time that the 9 day treatment was suggested was if you were introducing a rabbit which was being treated with the full course of panacur and using the short course as one to prevent your rabbit getting it off the new rabbit which was being introduced.

The other consideration which needs to be looked at is that for rabbits which have garden access or are on carpets you would need to change the area where they had access for a period of time as spores will lay active in grass / soil for quite a while.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=164265&highlight=nottingham This is a link to a thread which was made after the RWAF conference.
 
Last edited:
Here are my responses.

1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident? Yes falling over and bumping into things, shaking head.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what? Yes once I took my rabbit to my usual vet, he was given antiflammatories, antibotics and panacur for 28 days, advised to give every three months thereafter.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)? No

4) What information would you have found helpful? To panacur my rabbits in advance

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit? Yes unless they are unwell.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you? Panacur - easier to administer.
 
Back
Top