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View Full Version : E.C survey - input please



pooks
09-01-2010, 10:52 PM
I'm planning on writing something for all my bunny clients at work (vet practice) about E.cuniculi, as many of them are not educated on the dangers, signs etc.
I would just like some input from you bunny lovers and ask the following questions:

1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?

4) What information would you have found helpful?

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?

I would very much like to hear what you all have to say as i don't feel that EC is given enough press - we all worm our dogs and cats don't we??!!

Thanks everyone

mini lop1
09-01-2010, 10:55 PM
you might find this site of use, i use this one

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rabrefs.html#ec

pooks
09-01-2010, 11:36 PM
Thank you very much for that link - i will have a good read!

I was also interested to know what people's experience of EC was? In terms of veterinary support and knowledge?

janice
09-01-2010, 11:40 PM
EC was brought up at the last RWAF conference, the notes from that may be helpful to you. They are aavailable from the RWAF website.

Kermit
09-01-2010, 11:46 PM
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?
Yes, when my Kermit first was ill he had Head Tilt, nystygmus, rolling.....he was permanatly left with head tilt
2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?
I found that the vets had limited experience of a bunny with EC, i probably taught them more going through kermits illness
3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
Yes! I bought Kermit from PAH (first bunny, totally clueless) I feel that if i had been told about panacur i could possibly have prevented this
4) What information would you have found helpful?
Basically everything ive been told on this forum!
5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
My Kermit passed, i now have Herbie & Inca, they came from rescue and have been panacured, and i will be doing it regularly.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
Panacur paste, find it very easy to give on food.

NLENG2000
10-01-2010, 12:07 AM
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

Yes Minstrel had E.C. The first symptom he had was loss of use of his back legs. Once he had seen the vet we found out he had also lost his sight.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

Minstrel had three episodes of this in the space of 2 months and each time all the vet did was give a steroid, and 9 days of panacur.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
Yes, he should have had 28 days of panacur (as should his friend Twix), I should have been told about the cleaning out of the hutch with bleach etc on specific dates. I should have also been given some painkiller. It makes me wonder if we would still have him today if we'd had all this treatment too.

4) What information would you have found helpful?
See Above

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
Yes, 3-4 times a year.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
I use Panacur because it's what the vet gave us.

pooks
10-01-2010, 12:51 AM
Thank you so much for the replies so far. I will be using the info you give to help me provide clients with an info pack for if their bunny has EC. I also plan to send out letters explaining EC and its treatment to all our bunny clients.

If anyone else wishes to add their bunny info, please do so as it will help enormously.

Many Thanks

BevBunny
10-01-2010, 12:52 AM
This will probably be long, but will give you an idea of the rubbishness of some vets.

1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?
Yes, my bridge bun Charlie. He dragged his legs behind in the one day, we took him to the emergency vet round the corner from our house but by the time we got there he was fine. The emergency vet basically told us to stop wasting his time, that was the Saturday. I was intending to take him to my proper vet on Monday just to be on the safe side. Then on the Sunday we found him stuck on his side flapping around like a fish out of water - absolutely heartbreaking :cry:.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?
It was Sunday so we took him to the emergency vet round the corner, who told us he'd probably had a stroke and would need to be PTS. I asked about EC and he basically shooed me out of the surgery. So I called my normal surgery, got the number for their out of hours emergency vet (its at a different surgery) and went there. They told me he'd probably had a stroke and cos he was almost 8 years old there was nothing they could do for him, and implied he should be PTS there and then. I asked about EC and they basically didn't listen. I asked them to do as I asked and to give him painkillers/anti inflammatories, steroids and painkillers. They did and wanted to keep him in and put him on a drip, and would transfer him to my usual vet first thing the next day.

My usual vet was brilliant - by the time he called me he'd already put Charlie on panacur and metachlopramide, and he continued the painkillers and steroids. He said it was probably EC but might also be a severe inner ear infection - he xrayed Charlie's head to try to work it out. Charlie lived at the vets (with my vet visiting him through the night) for a week, was then a day patient for a fortnight so they could keep an eye on him while I was at work. He was left tilted but that went away after a year or so. He lived for almost 3 more years before we had to say goodbye to him at the grand old age of 10 and a half.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
Luckily, I already knew a fair bit from reading about other peoples experiences on here.

4) What information would you have found helpful?
I learned more things from looking after Charlie - like he was most comfy if I could wedge him with things so he didn't keep rolling over, and to wedge him whicever way his head said was up, even if that meant he was infact upside down. Holding him in my arms was the only way to keep him calm at one point. I think also I hadn't realised just how long it was going to take for him to get better, and that we had to just keep going and not give up hope.

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
Yes. Probably 3 times a year, or if they're going somewhere ie the bunny sitter, or when Charlie was PTS I immediately wormed Lavender incase she was stressed and also cos she would potentially be meeting a new bun (then I wormed Darwin as soon as he arrived at our house). I'm probably over cautious!

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
I buy panacur rabbit (ie the paste in the tubes) and put it in the middle of things (such as sugar snaps peas, or thes elittle buscuit treats that I open and fill with panacur). I buy it in bulk from http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_43&products_id=1105&zenid=muaouuoeb0htr6fc4urmd1aph0. I use this cos its what the vet originally used, he gave me the liquid cat (or maybe dog) one but the paste is easier to administer.

Hope this is the sort of thing you were after. Sorry its so long!

pooks
10-01-2010, 01:19 AM
Thanks Bevbunny! That was very informative at not at all long.
I'm so sorry your bunny has gone but its great that you nursed him through and he had another 3 years!!

Can i ask, you say you were surprised at how long it took him to recover - how long exactly did it take?
Also, did your vet ever confirm a diagnosis of EC or did he never truly discover what caused it?

ps, i'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with the other vets

BevBunny
10-01-2010, 01:48 AM
Can i ask, you say you were surprised at how long it took him to recover - how long exactly did it take?
He was flipping over all the time for about 4 days, then he just seemed to lie on his side. A few days later he started to lift his head up and it wasn't until about day 8 that he could right himself and stand up, and then a few days later he could just about hop but was all over the place. It just seemed to take so long for him to get back. This pic is him at about day 11 when we first let him have a hop around, he'd wobble over to a wall or something and just sit there leaning up it. It probably took 2 and a half weeks befor ehe could hop around withouth falling over all the time, he then continued to fall over every so often for several months. His head was only ever slightly tilted as you can see in the pic, and the head tilt lasted about a year.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/bevbunny/IMG_0209.jpg

Throughout it all he was calmest when we held him like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/bevbunny/IMG_0212.jpg


Also, did your vet ever confirm a diagnosis of EC or did he never truly discover what caused it?
He was confident that it was EC but obviously a blood test wasn't going to show it as buns carry it anyhow. The xray didn't show any abnormality in his ears and the vet was convinced it would have shown something if it had been an ear infection severe enough to give the symptoms that Charlie had.

AilsaDS
10-01-2010, 02:39 AM
I asked my vet about worming when I adopted him & I was advised to consult them for a worming treatment if I saw any signs of worms in his droppings, but otherwise not to worm.

Should I be regularly worming him?
I'm seeing the bunny nurse on Mon so I can raise it with her.


....................................
Edited to complete the questionaire.. I hope this helps because unfortunately (& worryingly) I've never heard of this before :(
I'm a new bunny mummy.


1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?
No

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?
N/A

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
Wasn't aware that it's a parasite & there are preventative treatments until I saw this

4) What information would you have found helpful?
To know what EC is, what the symptoms are & how best to prevent it

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
No - but I will be asking my vet/bunny nurse on Monday

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
N/A


I would like to add that my bunny had an enlarged liver shortly after he was rescued & before I adopted him & he was treated with Panacur & since then he has been fine; I was told he'd have no ongoing problems but I never thought to ask what they were treating him for.

Coineanach
10-01-2010, 02:46 AM
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

Yes, my bun Vinnie is currently recovering from it. The first sign was dragging her back legs, I took her to the vet. (see vet section)

About 2 months later she started dragging her legs again and having incontinence problems, but when I went up to her she hopped away. I went to work, and when I got back she was hiding - she normally comes out to say hello. I lifted what she was hiding under, she tried to get up and just flopped on her side and couldn't stand up, was lying in a puddle of her own urine, so back to vet.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

Originally was told it could be a slipped vertabrae or EC, vet put bun on medication for both as he said there was no conclusive test for EC and that the vertabrae may not show up on an x-ray leading to an incorrect conclusion. She got a 9-day panacur course and metacam. Vet said to stop the panacur after the 9 days an carry on with the metacam, keep a close eye and let him know if she got worse.

She was fine for around 2 months and then went drastically downhill again, whereupon vet gave a 28 day course of panacur, baytril and told me to continue with the metacam. She is now improving every day. I was told throughout to keep her clean and dry and to let her eat however much she wanted as she had lost nearly 50% of her body weight. I used nappies for a while as it was much less stressful than continually cleaning her. Vet was very helpful throughout and very informative. He was surprised at how quickly Vinnie responded to the first course of treatment (back to hopping in 3 days) and the length of time between the apparent recovery and relapse (nearly 2 months).

Was also told by vet I could worm as a preventative measure.


3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?

No, I have read quite a lot about the condition after having it with a previous bun, the only issues I had were with managing the incontinence, information for which I found on RU :)

4) What information would you have found helpful?

See above

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?

I will be now!

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?

Panacur. It's what the vet gave me and is easy to obtain. The long syringe point does make it easier to administer.

Coineanach
10-01-2010, 02:46 AM
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

I had a bunny about 8 years ago who was diagnosed with EC, she had no symptoms apart from the incontinence which caused us to take her to the vet. She had also never stood on just her back paws (to stand 'up') or attempted to flop, neither of which I thought unusual as she was my first rabbit.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

Local vet referred me to a bigger practice as he had no idea. He didn't waste time faffing about which was nice. New vet took x-rays and confirmed EC. He didn't call it EC however, said it was a parasite which was in the blood and caused problems with the central nervous system. She was given injections (sorry I can't remember what of) weekly but no daily worming treatment.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?

I wasn't aware of head tilt, eye problems and leg dragging resulting from EC, also the vet did not make it clear from the start that it was a difficult case and that she may not survive. (She had to be put to sleep.) I also did not know worming medication would help, although the vet may not have been aware either.

4) What information would you have found helpful?

See above.

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?

She had to be PTS. But I will be worming my current bun.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?

N/A

Coineanach
10-01-2010, 02:56 AM
I asked my vet about worming when I adopted him & I was advised to consult them for a worming treatment if I saw any signs of worms in his droppings, but otherwise not to worm.

Should I be regularly worming him?
I'm seeing the bunny nurse on Mon so I can raise it with her.

I wouldn't wait for this, why wait until the bunny has worms to do something? Worming is recommended as a preventative measure against worms and EC (a parasite). I didn't know this until my current bun got EC and I wish I had known before! I'd recommend it, definitely. Leaflet says 2-4 times yearly for 9 days at a time.

AilsaDS
10-01-2010, 03:03 AM
I wouldn't wait for this, why wait until the bunny has worms to do something? Worming is recommended as a preventative measure against worms and EC (a parasite). I didn't know this until my current bun got EC and I wish I had known before! I'd recommend it, definitely. Leaflet says 2-4 times yearly for 9 days at a time.


Thanks honey, I edited my above post... my bun was treated with Panacur before I adopted him but I didn't know what it was or what he was being treated for & now I'm feeling annoyed that they've left me in the dark & about the whole worming thing.
I did tell the vet I was a new bunny owner & they're supposed to be bunny 'savvy'.
I'm seeing the 'bunny nurse' on Monday, her speciality is rabbits & she's taken loads of courses as well as having buns herself (she adores them) so I will raise this with her & find out what she's got to say regarding her vet.
It's a big practice but I know the name of the vet I saw (not my usual one) & I can tell her who it was that gave me that advice - hopefully she'll give him a good telling off :censored:

Coineanach
10-01-2010, 03:21 AM
now I'm feeling annoyed that they've left me in the dark & about the whole worming thing.
I did tell the vet I was a new bunny owner & they're supposed to be bunny 'savvy'.

Some vets will be more bunny savvy than others, ask and see which one is best. Your nurse should know :) And don't be afraid to ask questions! I've only ever had one vet (my current) who volunteered information, all others I've had to ask. Write any questions you want to know down and take the list with you. :D
Here's a link on EC http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-2/e-cuniculi.html and another less medical-orientated one http://www.ebonyeyes.co.uk/aspbite/categories/index.asp?intCatID=268 I think I've seen the rescue Ebony Eyes on this site...

AilsaDS
10-01-2010, 03:39 AM
Thanks :)

I've saved those links for the morning cos I need to sleep - but geez, what would I do without u guys here :love:

I really feel for those bunnies whos owners aren't members &/or don't have access to this kind of information, poor things.
A little knowledge is a wonderful thing.

Elena
10-01-2010, 11:43 AM
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

Yes, pronounced head tilt and difficulty with balance

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

Pretty much. They said it was either EC or ear infection and he had Baytril, steroid (?) injections and Panacur

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?

I don't think so. I hadn't known about it before that but I hadn't really done enough research before I got my first bunny.

4) What information would you have found helpful?

Oddly, feeding tea! I found the tip online and did it and it seemed to help.

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?

Yes - all of them

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?

Panacur

janice
10-01-2010, 01:30 PM
I wouldn't wait for this, why wait until the bunny has worms to do something? Worming is recommended as a preventative measure against worms and EC (a parasite). I didn't know this until my current bun got EC and I wish I had known before! I'd recommend it, definitely. Leaflet says 2-4 times yearly for 9 days at a time.

Worming rabbits for 9 days at a time is now outdated information and is now proven that it does not work. AT the RWAF conference last year very different information was given as a result of new research which had been done by some vets. Thorough cleaning twice within the treatment period is now also recommened as the only way of preventing reinfection of the rabbits. Sadly some vets are not up to date with this information.

The only time that the 9 day treatment was suggested was if you were introducing a rabbit which was being treated with the full course of panacur and using the short course as one to prevent your rabbit getting it off the new rabbit which was being introduced.

The other consideration which needs to be looked at is that for rabbits which have garden access or are on carpets you would need to change the area where they had access for a period of time as spores will lay active in grass / soil for quite a while.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=164265&highlight=nottingham This is a link to a thread which was made after the RWAF conference.

hurricanhoney
10-01-2010, 01:36 PM
Here are my responses.

[COLOR="Blue"]1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident? Yes falling over and bumping into things, shaking head.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what? Yes once I took my rabbit to my usual vet, he was given antiflammatories, antibotics and panacur for 28 days, advised to give every three months thereafter.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)? No

4) What information would you have found helpful? To panacur my rabbits in advance

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit? Yes unless they are unwell.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you? Panacur - easier to administer.

hurricanhoney
10-01-2010, 01:36 PM
Here are my responses.

1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident? Yes falling over and bumping into things, shaking head.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what? Yes once I took my rabbit to my usual vet, he was given antiflammatories, antibotics and panacur for 28 days, advised to give every three months thereafter.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)? No

4) What information would you have found helpful? To panacur my rabbits in advance

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit? Yes unless they are unwell.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you? Panacur - easier to administer.

Hugo's There
10-01-2010, 01:58 PM
Worming rabbits for 9 days at a time is now outdated information and is now proven that it does not work. AT the RWAF conference last year very different information was given as a result of new research which had been done by some vets. Thorough cleaning twice within the treatment period is now also recommened as the only way of preventing reinfection of the rabbits. Sadly some vets are not up to date with this information.

The only time that the 9 day treatment was suggested was if you were introducing a rabbit which was being treated with the full course of panacur and using the short course as one to prevent your rabbit getting it off the new rabbit which was being introduced.

The other consideration which needs to be looked at is that for rabbits which have garden access or are on carpets you would need to change the area where they had access for a period of time as spores will lay active in grass / soil for quite a while.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=164265&highlight=nottingham This is a link to a thread which was made after the RWAF conference.

Just checking, but for actual worms ( not EC ) is it still recommended that you do 9 days? I have only ever had one bunny with worms. I only did a 9 day course and it cleared up fine. But I always do 28 days for EC :)

SarahP
10-01-2010, 02:08 PM
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

Recurring GI stasis in two bonded rabbits. No other signs were present.


2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

Not until I changed vet practice. The next vet considered that it was likely to be an infectious element, and that EC was likely to cause multiple problems internally, and did not always have the obvious symptoms of head tilt etc.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?

Cleaning: my vet did not tell me that regular disinfectants like Virkon, Trigene etc did not kill the spores, and that bleach should be used. I also have a concern that vet practices do not disinfect for EC spores sufficiently, due to their use of regular disinfectants.

4) What information would you have found helpful?

See 3.

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?

I currently have no rabbits, and I am unsure what protocol I will follow when I have them again, eg. one off 28 day dose whether showing symptoms or not, regular 9 day course, or none until symptoms are present.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?

I mostly used Panacur Rabbit and had no issues with it. Never used Lapizole.

angeleyes
10-01-2010, 02:12 PM
One of my foster buns and one of my own were showing symptoms which lead us to believe they had EC, these included uncontrolable bladder, slight head tilt, aggression and loss of sight.
For the 2 buns we thought were infected my vet gave me liquid panacur to give them for 6 weeks, these buns were also isolated in their living areas during this time to reduce the risk of reinfection. Every other bun in my care at the time (inc my housebuns who never even went outside) had a routine 4 week course of panacur.
Every living area was bleached each week during this time (it is rec that you bleach twice but i went a bit OTT just to make sure).
All buns were fine and no reinfection occured (touches lots of wood).
My vet has also told me not to routinely panacur.

Gem
10-01-2010, 02:42 PM
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?
Yes, Stripes. First we knew something was wrong was when I spotted she wasn't putting weight on a hind leg. Looking back I also realise she was spending more time sitting still

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?
I had a good vet but not the one I have now. We initially treated for a back injury so she was on Metacam, had a steroid injection and went on a week of panacur (Cat&Dog Liquid). Confined to cage rest but she just went down hill

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
Unfortunately by the time we realised it was EC it was too late to save her

4) What information would you have found helpful?
To have the vet I currently have I think

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
Not really, they get the same as they used too, six monthly

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
Panacur Cat & Dog Liquid because syringe feeding is a nightmare, pop it in a bit of porridge and its gone :)

Stripes wasn't getting any better, she had good & bad days and eventually her front legs collapsed followed by her internal organs and she slipped into a coma and was helped to freedom

I often wonder looking back if we're realised earlier what we were dealing with whether we could have saved Stripes :cry:

This was her at the worst
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/Bunny_Crazy/Picture001-4.jpg

1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?
Yes, Lucky. First we knew something was wrong was when I spotted he wasn't putting weight on a hind leg. Looking back I also realise he was spending more time sitting still

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?
Yes, he went straight onto panacur but we treated it as a back injury to start with so he had metacam, steroids and he went for a whole body X-Ray. Keeping him warm and calm was the main thing with him, but he preferred to stay outside, at one point he was sleeping outside all night because he couldn't manage the ramp to his hutch (We didn't have a choice with moving him indoors or to another hutch as he was a self mutilator) Keeping him long term on panacur & metacam

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
I did a lot of research while Lucky was ill and took papers into my vet where she confirmed what we were dealing with an advised I panacur his hutch mate too

4) What information would you have found helpful?
There wasn't anything at this time, I had everything I needed

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
Not really, they get the same as they used too, six monthly

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
Panacur Cat & Dog Liquid because syringe feeding is a nightmare, pop it in a bit of porridge and its gone :)

Lucky recovered completely from his EC, his only symptom was the hind leg weakness and went on to live another six months where he passed away in his sleep with his sister by his side. (He had a weak heart & shouldn't by rights have been alive)

1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?
Yes, Hazel - Lucky's sister. She developed EC about three months after Lucky had passed, intially I thought it was a stress reaction to loosing him as they were very close. She too had hind leg weakness and nothing else. By this time we knew what we had so she went onto panacur before the vet saw her, she had metacam and a steroid too.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?
Again she was onto the panacur and she had cage rest as well because she was completely stiff across her hips and both legs in the end

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
We had everything we needed due to previous experience although I spent more time looking for rabbits that had recovered

4) What information would you have found helpful?
To have all vets know about EC

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
Not really, they get the same as they used too, six monthly

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
Panacur Cat & Dog Liquid because syringe feeding is a nightmare, pop it in a bit of porridge and its gone :)

Hazel, we think also had arthritis in the end so she was kept on panacur indefinitely and intially a high dose of metacam, she was taken off it but was allowed it when she was very stiff. Hazel wasn't getting any better and would have been on drugs for life but unfortunately she was taken by the fox in October :cry:

pooks
10-01-2010, 05:39 PM
4) What information would you have found helpful?

Oddly, feeding tea! I found the tip online and did it and it seemed to help.

Feeding tea??!!

Never heard of this one! Do you have to get them to drink tea? What kind of tea? I'm rather confused! lol

pooks
10-01-2010, 05:59 PM
Thank you everyone so much for all your input!! I'm amazed at how many of you have responded and it will be very helpful. I'm am going to look into EC in more detail to try to find some answers to some of the questions and i'll let you know what i find.

I would be very grateful if anyone else can provide info regarding their bunnies with EC, its much appreciated!!

Elena
10-01-2010, 11:19 PM
Feeding tea??!!

Never heard of this one! Do you have to get them to drink tea? What kind of tea? I'm rather confused! lol

I can't remember which type it was, I just read that it helped! Someone who had a few EC bunnies had used it with success. I was so desperate I was trying everything!

He did seem to start getting better around the same time but we were throwing so many different things at him goodness knows what it was what done it.

ecudc
11-01-2010, 01:31 PM
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident? Urinary incontinence that was impacted slightly by antibiotics but not shifted. Cleared up within around 9 days of Panacur treatement (no antibiotics at that time)

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what? Mixed. The first said "can't be EC as they would not be able to use their back legs" the second recomended the panacur

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)? Probably all the other symptoms that you can get with it - Although that might risk bunny health anxiety as there are so many.

4) What information would you have found helpful?

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit? No - Took 3 repeat treatements but sooty is now we think clear. Recomendation is one 28 day course with strict cleaning especially towards the end of the course & this should be sufficient to remove EC from the system. The 9 day course 2 times a year is no longer recomended.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?

Panacur- I have nethies and larger buns and lapizole is too hard to administer to the larger buns due to the pump action. The paste is very good as it can be concealed in spring green leaves or put on something that the bunnies like. Alternativly the liquid is easy to syring. I actually use the dog version when using it as it is much cheaper.

LolasMummy
11-01-2010, 04:19 PM
1)Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?

This is an example of appalling care and treatment throughout a case of EC resulting is us losing our little man.

Desmond (2 years old), with no other health issues had EC which first presented itself on the 1st December 2009 and he died from complications to do with EC on Tuesday 8th December 2009.

Desmond presented with limping on his front left leg initially which we were told was due to a sprained foot.
The next day he was no longer eating or passing faeces as normal.
The following day he had thick sludgy orange urine, had not eaten or drunk since the previous night, no evidence of faeces since the previous night, unable to bend to clean himself as he was unsteady, very listless and limping.
Two days later (after being admitted to our vets) we collected him and his symptoms had deteriorated and Desmond was no longer making any effort to move, eat, drink, urinate or pass any faeces and his eyes appeared very sunken.

(Throughout all the above he was under the care of our vets)

He was then transferred to a specialist centre by us where he was found to be in GI stasis and had severe dehydration.
Desmond was now presenting with listlessness, renal failure and Neurological problems (he was having trouble maintaining his gait with limping on varying limbs).
The following day his gait became ‘spectacular’ (he was unable to stand or eat by himself) and he was now in severe renal failure.
Desmond became ‘dull and depressed’ the following day and sadly passed away.
(Throughout all the above he was in a specialist centre)
2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?

Our own vets were appalling in the care that Desmond received but the Specialist centre was fantastic.

The specialist centre did all they could for Desmond but also explained that they had to admit Lola (Desmonds partner) for treatment for EC too.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)? 4) What information would you have found helpful?

Our other rabbit Lola (Desmonds partner) had 1 year previous to all this happening been ill with ‘antibiotic allergy’ (as we were told by our vets) and developed urine scalding and she became incontinent. We now know that this was probably due to EC and due to her being half wildie she has a better immune system to fight it.

Being dull and depressed is a common sign of renal failure.
Metacam should not be used in EC for rabbits with renal failure as its can further damage the kidneys (as with any anti-flammatories) but the vets need to decide whether the inflammation from EC is worse or the renal failure.
We have been advised to make sure any hay we get is bagged and not to ever get fresh hay as the EC parasite lives very happily in there.
Any rabbit that is introduced to Lola must be treated with Panacur for 28 days.
The biggest thing we learnt is that vets can be wrong!!! We will never forget that and will always question in future!!!

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
We were advised by the specialist to only worm Lola and any future rabbits if required as the centres personal belief is that there any many dangers from using the wormer that out way the risk of her getting EC again.

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
Panacur paste as that was what our specialist advised was the best and prescribed.
(I have a written document of everything that happened from Desmonds initial symptoms to his very sad passing if this would be of any help? If so let me know and I will send it to you).

Binnsy
11-01-2010, 04:31 PM
1) Have you had a bunny with EC, what signs were evident?
Yes, my bridge bunny Titch. He was about 2 years old when he got it. First signs that things weren't right was when he was walking funny, as if he was drunk, he couldn’t get balanced.

2) Did you get much help/advice from your vets? If so, what?
Took him to the vet the next morning and the vet diagnosed it as EC very quickly and put him on 28days of panacur, but I wasn't given much other information, just to "help him when he needs help", and that it was good I had caught it so early. Was given more helpful information when he went back for his check up and saw a different vet.

3) Is there anything you felt you should have known about EC that you were not told (and you subsequently found out on the net/from another source)?
There were things but it's hard to remember now what I was told and what I found out for myself. Mainly about worming before it happened rather than after, I know it may not have stopped it, but I’ll never know.

4) What information would you have found helpful?
Due to the rolling and the fact that he couldn't stand, I bought him a large piece of vetbed and lined his cage with it. It was the best money I've ever spent, as he wasn't able to stand unaided for nearly 2 weeks and it stopped him hurting himself against the sides of the cage. This was something I thought of by myself, the vets didn't have any suggestions at the time.

5) Do you now routinely worm your rabbit?
Yes

6) Which wormer do you use (lapizole or panacur paste)? Do you use that wormer because its easier to administer/your pet prefers the taste/its what the vet gave you?
Panacur. It was what I was given and it is easy to get hold of. I also find it quite easy to administer.

Titch lived for three and a half years after his diagnosis of EC. It was about three months before he was over it but he was left with a noticeable tilt. He coped with it really well and just looked puzzled. He was very special and I miss him very much :cry:

Coineanach
12-01-2010, 02:37 AM
Worming rabbits for 9 days at a time is now outdated information and is now proven that it does not work. AT the RWAF conference last year very different information was given as a result of new research which had been done by some vets. Thorough cleaning twice within the treatment period is now also recommened as the only way of preventing reinfection of the rabbits. Sadly some vets are not up to date with this information.

The only time that the 9 day treatment was suggested was if you were introducing a rabbit which was being treated with the full course of panacur and using the short course as one to prevent your rabbit getting it off the new rabbit which was being introduced.

The other consideration which needs to be looked at is that for rabbits which have garden access or are on carpets you would need to change the area where they had access for a period of time as spores will lay active in grass / soil for quite a while.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=164265&highlight=nottingham This is a link to a thread which was made after the RWAF conference.

Thanks :wave: I'll have a good look at that thread. With regards to bold (above) is this during an infection period of worms or EC, 9 day or 28 day, or both? Is the 9 day course still useful for prevention of worms or considered useless in both respects?

Sorry, questions :oops: