Boxing Day Hunts

[LionheadLuver]

Do you agree with it?

What do you think about getting rid of the ban, something the Tories want to do?

[elve_mk2]

I'm sure everyone here will want to see the ban lifted and in fact take part in such a fine Old English tradition - tally ho chaps I can smell the blood already :p

[LoopyLouie]

Tally ho! Fetch my crop and my gun Jeeves!

[LionheadLuver]

I'm sure everyone here will want to see the ban lifted and in fact take part in such a fine Old English tradition - tally ho chaps I can smell the blood already :p

but some people may have different views if they live in the countryside, afterall, foxes eat rabbits.

[Lspacehopper]

The unspeakable, in hot pursuit of the uneatable!!

It annoys me so much when someone uses the excuse "I just go for the ride", to try and justify the fact that they go hunting!!

[coco1200]

oh yes, I support it fully, and I love seeing little fox cubs being ripped to shreds :roll:

Its a disgusting, vile sport. Do I care its been a long 'tradition' and its been going on for many generations? Its sickening that some people who are thought to be human can be so savage.

[Lib_n_bunny]

but some people may have different views if they live in the countryside, afterall, foxes eat rabbits.

And how very dare they. How unnatural!

[*lily*]

I thought it was banned? :?

[Lspacehopper]

I thought it was banned? :?

They flout the laws and have ways and means of getting round it!

[elve_mk2]

but some people may have different views if they live in the countryside, afterall, foxes eat rabbits.

basically, working class bloodsports such as dogfighting and cockfighting have been banned, but upper class bloodsports such as hunting, shooting and fishing are allowed to go ahead - after all, the Queen takes part, as do many MPs I'm sure.

Total hypocrisy - if you want to enjoy the countryside then there are plenty of ways of doing so without slaughtering animals 'for fun'

[Bunny Buddy]

The unspeakable, in hot pursuit of the uneatable!!

Sums it up perfectly.

The only hunt I support on Boxing Day is the bargain hunt.

If I lived in the country and was troubled by foxes, I would support control of them but NOT in this barbaric way :cry:

[*Spider*]

I'm sure a lot of people agree with fox hunting on here LionheadLuver.
Afterall they're a danger to our rabbits so there's nothing better than chasing, torturing and ripping a countryside fox to shreds for the fun of it :D

[Hoppit!]

They do 'drag hunts' where the hounds are meant to follow a false seant, but they choose routes well known for the population of foxes, so it turns into a fox hunt.

It's a fine old sport, like Christians and lions!!

[TermiteFrank]

I'm sure everyone here will want to see the ban lifted and in fact take part in such a fine Old English tradition - tally ho chaps I can smell the blood already :p

Rather, what! *fnar, fnar*

The ironic thing is the ban on foxhunting hasn't saved a single fox from a horrible death. It's perfectly legal for a hunt to chase and kill a fox as long as the hounds are only used to flush out the fox and chase it. The only difference is that to stay legal, instead of the fox being killed by the dogs it has to be either shot dead or killed by bird of prey before the hounds get to it.

Personally, I think it was a total waste of political time as all it has done is give the general public a false sense of security, reinforced townie vs bumpkins stereotypes and made the working class think they've got one over on the toffs. It's all a lie when it comes down to it.

Not that I support foxhunting, but you're being lied to by your government as usual.

[loopylop]

This is a nice festive topic :roll:

It's also emotive for a lot of people so just a note to say word posts nicely :wave:

[Mart]

Not really a discussion - as I'm pretty sure near enough 100% of people here are gainst it.

But to open up the discussion slightly - and spurred on by Elves post (that it's more about class)...

Would you draw a line somewhere for 'acceptable' hunting ? - not necessarily around fox hunting, but somewhere in the progression from fox-hunting / dog-fighting at one end of the 'bloodsport' spectrum, to maybe fishing at the other ?

If possible, can we avoid the vegeterianism vs. meat eaters argument too ?

Martin

[halfpenny]

but some people may have different views if they live in the countryside, afterall, foxes eat rabbits.

.....and rabbits eat crops so we should bring back rabbit and hare coursing as well.

[Mart]

Sorry - looks like I killed the thread :)

Martin

[abbymarysmokey]

I think it's very important to keep the ban on hunting with dogs...otherwise our beautiful wild hares could find themselves on the brink of extinction.

Before hunting was banned my dad saw foxes being captively bred in hunt kennels, so the excuse about needing to keep fox numbers down is utter rubbish. I'm not saying foxes are bred in this way everywhere because I'm not sure, but they certainly were in the East Midlands.

[kerry-123]

basically, working class bloodsports such as dogfighting and cockfighting have been banned, but upper class bloodsports such as hunting, shooting and fishing are allowed to go ahead - after all, the Queen takes part, as do many MPs I'm sure.

Total hypocrisy - if you want to enjoy the countryside then there are plenty of ways of doing so without slaughtering animals 'for fun'

:thumb:

[TermiteFrank]

Mart, that line is just going to tie us up in knots. I suspect with most people from what I can gather with prior discussions, the line is drawn at the hunters enjoying themselves.

I personally don't even think dog fighting and foxhunting are in the same league. There is absolutely no way of defending dog fighting as there is no practical need for it. Playing devil's advocate on my part, you could at least put together an argument for hunting foxes with hounds. Foxes are going to have their population controlled by humans anyway and hunting with a pack of dogs is only going to catch the weak, old and sick animals, thus improving the genetic health of the fox population in general. Otherwise they get shot, trapped or poisoned, all three of which are either indiscriminate in what species/animals in a population they kill and/or can leave the animal suffering a prolonged and painful death for days in many cases. To heap a bit more irony on and bring this paragraph neatly back to where it started, most of the foxes have moved into town to live the high life and are most in danger from cars, mange and chavs with fighting dogs.

[Lspacehopper]

I think it's very important to keep the ban on hunting with dogs...otherwise our beautiful wild hares could find themselves on the brink of extinction.

Before hunting was banned my dad saw foxes being captively bred in hunt kennels, so the excuse about needing to keep fox numbers down is utter rubbish. I'm not saying foxes are bred in this way everywhere because I'm not sure, but they certainly were in the East Midlands.


I think a few of the East Midlands hunt groups have done 'dodgy' things.They have been known to catch foxes and slash all their pads before releasing them to make 'the chase' easier for the dogs!

I remember seeing a debate on fox hunting and an argument used was that people would be out of jobs and the dogs would have to be destroyed. Ironic that the dogs are destroyed at a young age when deemed to be past their peak for the chase!!

I was born and raised in the country and it makes me laugh when people use the townie V country debate. I'm against fox hunting and certainly not a townie!!

[Pie]

I go hunting. Drag hunts only though. And the hunt party I go with do not go after the foxes "by accident". There are a couple if people that set the trail, and we follow it.

For most of us its just about going out in the countryside, having a good gallop along fields with our friends and some beautiful horses, and just enjoying the freedom. I would never par take in it if they ever did kill a fox, either "by accident" or not.

[Mackers]

Not really a discussion - as I'm pretty sure near enough 100% of people here are gainst it.

But to open up the discussion slightly - and spurred on by Elves post (that it's more about class)...

Would you draw a line somewhere for 'acceptable' hunting ? - not necessarily around fox hunting, but somewhere in the progression from fox-hunting / dog-fighting at one end of the 'bloodsport' spectrum, to maybe fishing at the other ?

If possible, can we avoid the vegeterianism vs. meat eaters argument too ?

Martin

Oooh yes please! Can we start up a 'man hunt' again. Put all the animal abusers in a cage, open the doors, give them a 10 minute head start and then set the dogs on them :lol:

[antigone]

Oooh yes please! Can we start up a 'man hunt' again. Put all the animal abusers in a cage, open the doors, give them a 10 minute head start and then set the dogs on them :lol:

:thumb:

[Rachel89]

I think people make up yhere own statistics quite a few times.

I drag hunt, I do it for a living.
We do not go after foxes leading scents to them, we have 4 set routes and even before the ban the likely hood of getting a fox wasn't a great deal. I'm sure most who do/did hunting back then would yell you this all the same.

As for the dogs, we do not "kill" out dogs when there a certqin age.

In fact I think most protestors have caused more damage to us. A group of animal rights activists, stole/let out 50dogs to "save them", they all had homes wete we are, turned out they then had to destroy the dogs as couldn't rehome etc.

Ive had several hoorses cut and hit with signs, they do more damage to use them we do, all we do is dig abit of mud and an flatten the occasional hedge.

:)

[w1lll]

How about we replace fox hunting with Japanese Small Car Hunting (http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/what-a-fox?VideoBrowserMode=categories&VideoCategory=Challenges)?

[Stator]

And this is one of the reasons I won't be voting Tory at the next general election. As much as I dislike a lot of labour policies, they have at least done something and a lot more than the Torries would/will do.

[TermiteFrank]

Oooh yes please! Can we start up a 'man hunt' again. Put all the animal abusers in a cage, open the doors, give them a 10 minute head start and then set the dogs on them :lol:

That would be no good as foxhounds are usually very good natured and would lick them to death when they caught up with them. We could dress them up as huntsmen and send a baying mob of hunt sabs out to beat them to death with placards. :lol:

[abbymarysmokey]

In fact I think most protestors have caused more damage to us. A group of animal rights activists, stole/let out 50dogs to "save them", they all had homes wete we are, turned out they then had to destroy the dogs as couldn't rehome etc.



Why would letting dogs loose mean they then had to be destroyed? I'm not seeing the logic here :?

[nursecroft]

Mart, that line is just going to tie us up in knots. I suspect with most people from what I can gather with prior discussions, the line is drawn at the hunters enjoying themselves.

I personally don't even think dog fighting and foxhunting are in the same league. There is absolutely no way of defending dog fighting as there is no practical need for it. Playing devil's advocate on my part, you could at least put together an argument for hunting foxes with hounds. Foxes are going to have their population controlled by humans anyway and hunting with a pack of dogs is only going to catch the weak, old and sick animals, thus improving the genetic health of the fox population in general. Otherwise they get shot, trapped or poisoned, all three of which are either indiscriminate in what species/animals in a population they kill and/or can leave the animal suffering a prolonged and painful death for days in many cases. To heap a bit more irony on and bring this paragraph neatly back to where it started, most of the foxes have moved into town to live the high life and are most in danger from cars, mange and chavs with fighting dogs.

Completely agree with the above.



I think alot of people on this forum need to respect other poeples opinions too, some posts on here are very aggressive. :?

[raine]

Im not getting drag hunting. Are the dogs trained not to kill?????

[Mackers]

Im not getting drag hunting. Are the dogs trained not to kill?????

I thought drag hunting was where the dogs followed a scent laid down by a person? The dogs just follow the scent to a given point don't they? Or am I being naive?

[honeybunny]

<< against fox hunting..am against any killing that is seen as sport/entertainment/etc

people who defend foxhunting are usually caught out by their own hypocracy when defending it as " needed to control the fox population" then five minutes later will say " but we rarely kill a fox" can't have it both ways:evil:

[Angie65]

I thought drag hunting was where the dogs followed a scent laid down by a person? The dogs just follow the scent to a given point don't they? Or am I being naive?

That's correct

A chunk of meat is soaked in aniseed or something & dragged by a runner half an hour or so before the hunt follows. Dogs get meat not live animal:D There was a drag hunt near me growing up - never went cos my horse was about 185 years old:lol:

It's way better as it's a set route so safe, pre-planned, includes good jumps etc & obviously no live animal.

[LolasMummy]

<< against fox hunting..am against any killing that is seen as sport/entertainment/etc

people who defend foxhunting are usually caught out by their own hypocracy when defending it as " needed to control the fox population" then five minutes later will say " but we rarely kill a fox" can't have it both ways:evil:

Very good point hadnt really thought of that!

I think there is no need and its awful to watch the poor fox literrally ripped apart.:(

[nursecroft]

<< against fox hunting..am against any killing that is seen as sport/entertainment/etc

people who defend foxhunting are usually caught out by their own hypocracy when defending it as " needed to control the fox population" then five minutes later will say " but we rarely kill a fox" can't have it both ways:evil:

I genuinely believe it is the best way to control the fox population and keep it strong and i dont care if it makes me unpopular on this forum its my personal opinion which im not ashamed of, based on my experiences. I dont think that makes me a bad person.

I dont agree with digging foxes out once they have gone to ground, i believe a hunt cannot catch a healthy fox they are far too cunning and quick. I also think it keeps them weary of people, rural foxes are getting bolder now.

Having said that i hate seeing anything die, i dont personally hunt.

[Mandy]

<< against fox hunting..am against any killing that is seen as sport/entertainment/etc

people who defend foxhunting are usually caught out by their own hypocracy when defending it as " needed to control the fox population" then five minutes later will say " but we rarely kill a fox" can't have it both ways:evil:

I agree! Hunt scum :D

[VickiP]

Mart, that line is just going to tie us up in knots. I suspect with most people from what I can gather with prior discussions, the line is drawn at the hunters enjoying themselves.

I personally don't even think dog fighting and foxhunting are in the same league. There is absolutely no way of defending dog fighting as there is no practical need for it. Playing devil's advocate on my part, you could at least put together an argument for hunting foxes with hounds. Foxes are going to have their population controlled by humans anyway and hunting with a pack of dogs is only going to catch the weak, old and sick animals, thus improving the genetic health of the fox population in general. Otherwise they get shot, trapped or poisoned, all three of which are either indiscriminate in what species/animals in a population they kill and/or can leave the animal suffering a prolonged and painful death for days in many cases. To heap a bit more irony on and bring this paragraph neatly back to where it started, most of the foxes have moved into town to live the high life and are most in danger from cars, mange and chavs with fighting dogs.

:wave: I am against hunting foxes with dogs, I think the arguement about the weak, old and sick being caught is of no comfort to me, the fox still endures an terrifying death. Weak, old, sick animals will die and possibly become food for other starving animals in the balance of nature, no animal deserves to be hunted down and ripped to bits in the name of sport and how people can 'enjoy' doing this is beyond me, I can't think of anything worse apart from maybe an 'organised dog fight'. The fox as any species faces enough danger and fights to survive especially in weather conditions like we have at present and they do help to control other so called 'vermin' like rats etc I don't think any of the foxes have chosen to 'move' into town most have had towns built on their habitats and managed to adapt or been forced to venture into towns in search of food as their own 'wild' food sources such as rabbits etc are in decline and also 'hunted' by humans for fun etc For me there is absolutely no need to do this and it is not humane or fair in anyway to allow a pack of dogs to rip a fox to bits whether it is sick, old or whatever it is just a wild animal trying to live it's life and this sort of thing is not 'fun' or necessary in this day and age in my opinion. x

[kitschkitty]

I'm against fox hunting.

I don't see why it needs a huge group of people and animals to kill one or 2 other animals.

I don't believe it's a humane or efficient way to cull the fox population (if that is an argument to be answered).

The foxes aren't required or used as food.

It doesn't develop any skills hunting in such a manner.

It's not the only way said group of people can get together and enjoy the countryside so that's not a good enough reason for me.

It's not always done in a legal/law abiding way.

[nursecroft]

deleted.

[Rachel89]

That's correct

A chunk of meat is soaked in aniseed or something & dragged by a runner half an hour or so before the hunt follows. Dogs get meat not live animal:D There was a drag hunt near me growing up - never went cos my horse was about 185 years old:lol:

It's way better as it's a set route so safe, pre-planned, includes good jumps etc & obviously no live animal.

and you get decent photographers that get pretty pictures lol.

in reply to the other comment they were unable to rehome them. there was an article in our local paper about it for a few weeks. will scan it in when my laptops been fixed.

[nursecroft]

deleted.

[kitschkitty]

The vast majority of people who hunt have never seen a fox killed, nor have any particular interest in doing so.

Then why bother in the first place? Why not just enjoy other riding or what have you if it is just for the social aspects etc?

[kitschkitty]

I also really would appreciate if people on the forum could debate like an adult and stop throwing inappropriate and un-necessary insults such as 'scum'. :?

While I fully agree, you have just posted
It is not left wounded by some idiot. which is technically name calling (not that I don't agree on the point that snares are indiscriminate and barbaric).

[kitschkitty]

Oops just noticed one more point. If the argument is that the a single dog kills the fox and the argument is that this is the best most humane way to kill foxes then my opinion is this doesn't support fox hunting, based on the fact that a whole pack of people horses and dogs aren't required, and therefore it's being done for entertainment which I don't see the necessity of nor the mortality.

[nursecroft]

deleted.

[nursecroft]

deleted.

[Mandy]

Should know better? Who are you to tell me that I should know better.

Moderators can have opinions also :D . And mine is that people that hunt a defenseless animal for fun in the name of pest control are 'scum'. I don't see the need to expand on my comment as plenty have others have said what I feel.

I have not personally attacked you - indeed you said you don't hunt- and I'm not putting up with you being rude to me or about me because you feel as a moderator I am not entitled to voice my opinion. If you have a problem with what I've said take it up with Tamsin.

[*Spider*]

Do you agree with hare coursing Lara?

[antigone]

The vast majority of people who hunt have never seen a fox killed, nor have any particular interest in doing so.
Farmers welcome the hunt on to their land during the hunting season and maintain wildlife habitats which benefit thousands of other creatures. If hunting is banned the incentive to do this will disappear, foxes will be trapped, gassed and shot at any old time of year - including the breeding season - and the one to suffer most will be the fox.

Banning hunting will not save the fox, which is something that anti-hunt people don't seem to want to realise. A hunted fox is either alive or dead. It is not left wounded by some idiot with a snare. And how would you feel if your pet dog dies from eating poisoned bait put down to kill foxes? Banning hunting will not stop foxes being killed - it will just mean they are killed in less humane ways, and lead to other innocent, non-vermin, animals lives being harmed by the snares and poison.

Only one fox hound actually administers the kill. This takes less than a second and is done by a single nip to the back of the neck. A fox can take several shots from a shotgun or rifle and still limp into the hedgerow to die slowly and painfully. Hounds will only catch the elderly and infirm foxes (the ideal animals for culling). This is not a sport for sadists. It is a very necessary way of keeping down the numbers of this agricultural pest/vermin.

The fact remains that it is the fastest and most painless way of killing a fox. Perhaps we should ban cars and other vehicles. After all, they account for more fox deaths per annum than hunting with hounds.

If someone can prove me wrong then i will change my view as i dont personally hunt and actually used to be against it, but this is my opinion now based on what i know and have learnt living down here. Let us have a dispassionate independent enquiry based on facts, not emotion.

I Know this is a emotive subject and i understand people getting pationate and possibly not liking me for my opinion but i am entitled to share why i think the way i do. I also really would appreciate if people on the forum could debate like an adult and stop throwing inappropriate and un-necessary insults such as 'scum'. :?


If 'the vast majority of people who hunt have never seen a fox killed, nor have any particular interest in doing so' how come 'it (hunting) is a very necessary way of keeping down the numbers of this agricultural pest/vermin':? Hunting either kills and controls the 'vermin' or it doesn't.:?

If you don't personally hunt how do you know that 'it takes less than a second' for the fox to die?:?

Not all landowners 'welcome the hunt' in their land, but their opinions are disregarded anyway by the hunters.:(

Let's start killing the real pests I say, such as cats - they destroy our wildlife- and rabbits - they eat just about everything.:p (Only joking.)

[nursecroft]

deleted.

[nursecroft]

Do you agree with hare coursing Lara?

No i think thats completely different and think its awful.

[VickiP]

They are already dead when the younger hounds at the back rip them apart, the lead hound delivers a bite to the back of the neck killing them instantly.

:wave: I don't believe this, I have seen lots of upsetting footage of a fox enduring a terribly slow end with more than one dog biting chunks out of it.

You are entitled to your opinion you are absolutely right but, you also need to bear in mind that this type of 'sport' which is what is has traditionally been known as, has now been banned and made illegal. There seems to be an arrogance about the people who used to enjoy doing this that they feel they are 'above' the law and in fact are evading the law and continue to do this.

I don't accept that it is because of their overwhelming desire to balance the 'ecology' on their land and that the fox is the 'problem' pest and that by hunting a few each year it miraculously cures the so called problem. If a farmer is experiencing problems with foxes, allowing hunting to take place on his land will not erradicate the problem, the chances are it will eventually move it on to neighbouring land. My point is they will still use traps, poison etc if they are intent on interferring with the wildlife on their land. Lots of farmers don't interfere at all and have no problems. As someone else said what about badgers, hare's, rabbits, deer etc These animals are also subjected to being 'culled' by farmers or so-called 'hunters' I prefer poachers as a description for them. Badgers are afforded protection but, I have no doubt that there are still cases of 'man' ignoring the law. As I understand it snares and poison are not a responsible method of pest control and if a farmer chooses to use these methods then it kind of sums up his attitude to the countryside and respect for the biodiversity on his land, he has none. If your dog ingests poison in a public place it is illegal but, for a farmer to allow a dog onto his land without pointing out that there is a toxic substance lying around is just irresponsible and unlikely to happen.

My personal view is that 'money' is the motivating factor for fox hunting with dogs, the farmer allows a hunt onto his land for money, not to control the fox population at all. I think you have either been reading 'pro-hunting' propaganda or talking to supporters of hunting and you are believing what they tell you as it may be less painful than accepting the truth, no-one who is a lover of the countryside and wildlife and nature will enjoy seeing a fox hunted and then ripped apart by hounds. I'm sorry no matter how it's dressed up their is no excuse for causing any animal un-necessary suffering, shooting is preferable and that should only be by a qualified marksman not some amateur farmer taking pot shots. If it's done correctly a shot animal will die instantly not be chased for miles and miles to be tortured. An animal that has lived it's life and managed to reach old age does not deserve that in the name of sport and frankly the people who are insisting on doing it make my blood boil, it is illegal they should get over it. I have seen hunt protesters standing perfectly legally 'spat' at by these people on horses, who the hell do they think they are? They are the ones breaking the law and in this country we are entitled to protest in a peaceful manner about legal things let alone people who are wilfully breaking the law. It is outrageous frankly that they are getting away with it. Justice needs to be fair not based on 'class'. If that's the upper class and what they are about, I am more than happy to be classed as a 'commoner' anyday.

[Mandy]

Anyone anti fox hunting should have a read of this to do with the election:
http://www.keepcrueltyhistory.com/

Also interesting blog posts on here about different parties policies for animals:
http://www.kimstallwood.com/

[Bunny_mad]

Also anyone interested in what politicians have to say about animal welfare should visit Lush's campaign! I can't remember the website but I'm sure if you google it, it will come up. Lush were focusing on 3 policies, hunting, testing and battery hens! The website is updated with the views of potiticians and where they stand on such issues, thus allowing you to vote in a more constructive way based on what is said. I haven't yet visited the site so do not wish to be shot down if it turns out to be counter productive. As for the hunting issue, I am a rider and no matter what the argument I can not accept fox hunting as a sport or past past! I can enjoy a good hack or cross country without the need to chase defenceless creatures and cause them a barbaric death! Just my opinion!!

[Crunchie]

I remember doing a lot of research into fox hunting when I was at uni for a big coursework. The conclusion I came to was that it was actually the worse way of controlling fox populations. For goodness sake sometimes live foxes were trapped and then released at the hunt site so that there was actually a fox there to hunt. How on earth is that an example of good population control?:?

Will be keeping my beadies open about where polititions stand regarding issues like this.

[Lib_n_bunny]

Also anyone interested in what politicians have to say about animal welfare should visit Lush's campaign! I can't remember the website but I'm sure if you google it, it will come up. Lush were focusing on 3 policies, hunting, testing and battery hens! The website is updated with the views of potiticians and where they stand on such issues, thus allowing you to vote in a more constructive way based on what is said. I haven't yet visited the site so do not wish to be shot down if it turns out to be counter productive. As for the hunting issue, I am a rider and no matter what the argument I can not accept fox hunting as a sport or past past! I can enjoy a good hack or cross country without the need to chase defenceless creatures and cause them a barbaric death! Just my opinion!!

Oooh didn't know that, thanks for the pointer, I've emailed all our candidates over here in Stevenage :D