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View Full Version : Fighting or playing...? U/D not good =(



Jenova
14-12-2009, 11:51 AM
Grimlock keeps on running into Samus and then running away and then they start what appears to be fighting. Running circles with their noses on each others bums, jumping and flicking (but no binkies). Then Samus will run into Grim and it all starts again.

They did fight when they were first bonded and there was a lot of fur pulling by Samus and Grimlock got really scared and wouldn't go near her. There's only a tiny bit of fur pulling this time and Grim's not scared.

To me it seems like he's trying to dominate over her but as he has not front teeth he can't. His body language is really odd too, his bum is right in the air and his tail is right up showing the white underneath. Samus just seems her normal self.

They've confused me. :?

SOAD
14-12-2009, 11:54 AM
I wouldn't say they were playing, but not fighting yet, I would keep an eye on them as it could turn into a fight.

Jenova
14-12-2009, 12:52 PM
Cheers.

Any idea what could cause this after over a month of being inseparable?

poppymoon
14-12-2009, 01:25 PM
my 2 kicked off recently and have to live apart now (do keep your eye on them - i thought the scuffle behind the futon was harmless. it wasn't:(). they'd been happy for 3 months+.

raine
14-12-2009, 01:59 PM
Are all your buns spayed and neutered?

areia
14-12-2009, 02:21 PM
have you had any other animals near?

have you been somewhere with other animals


used any new scents xmas candle etc new toys treats ?

lildebs
14-12-2009, 04:47 PM
is one of your buns 'wary' of the other and mistaking playing for lunging or similar...so the other's instinct is to react defensively??

Jenova
14-12-2009, 10:56 PM
Ooh, all good points. Yes they're both done, they share the room with the four chinchillas but always have done. In fact their 'fighting' upset the chinnies so I moved Grim downstairs for the night. :(

I did buy locust beans which they've not had since Samus arrived. She loves them and I was teaching her to beg for them by standing up. Grim doesn't care about them at all though. I wonder if it could be that.

I'm going to have a good hard think about anything else new.

At the moment I've put them together in the dog crate to hopefully re-bond. They went to the vet this afternoon in the same carrier and were fine... apart from Grim nicked all the blanket and to stop herself sliding around on the plastic Samus decided to sit on Grim's head... :roll:

Jenova
14-12-2009, 11:09 PM
My friend just said it could be the smell of her rabbit on her clothes and when she says hi to Grim and Sams there's the smell of another girlie bun.

Makes sense if that is the case. But it worries me as my brother is staying at ours for Christmas and bringing his bunny, Simba. Her smell is probably going to be all over him and this could set them off. :?

My friend said could it be that it's just the smell of the rabbit which is seen as a threat. Would it be wise to try and introduce Samus to her rabbit (in a controlled neutral environment) so that she can see where the smell is coming from rather than it just being an invisible threat.

My friend is basically going into her territory covered in the smell of another female rabbit but she has nothing to confront or sort it out with so perhaps Grim has become a target. If she could identify Licks as the source of the smell and differentiate her from Grim would that help Grim?

Plus Grim has always loved Licks so he's probably acting differently too...

lildebs
14-12-2009, 11:36 PM
When I first got Oscar my 2 were having tiffs in the garden....dawned on me 3 days later....my neighbour has an intact male bunny who comes to the fence :roll:and being newly bonded I guess it was territorial thing...they're fine now though...Oscar sits at the otherside of fence staring at the bunny and Bella just plays :lol:

Jenova
14-12-2009, 11:52 PM
Sams has been humping Grim... a lot...
Gotta be dominance or territorial.

Well it makes a change for him to be on the receiving end for once. :lol:

Jenova
16-12-2009, 09:51 AM
Not good news. Grim doesn't want to be around her any more and she keeps charging him and pulling his fur. :(

I got them together in the bedroom to eat their advent calender treats but for the last few days Grim has decided he'd rather live downstairs. It really makes me sad because they were so happy together, the happiest I'd seen Grim in a long time. I'm going give them a little time apart I think while I figure out how to re bond them.

They both get so stressed in the dog crate as they're used to having so much more space, but one idea is to use the hutch as they both love it in there. But that means slowly adjusting them to the outside temperature... and at the moment that's a mammoth task.

The thing that annoys me is that if I put them next to each other and cuddle them they're fine, they went to the vets in the same carry case and were fine and if I give them treats together they will both eat out of my hand. You'd think competing for food would set them off.

The only other thing I can think of is that Grim does like to come downstairs sometimes and Sam prefers to stay in the bedroom, so maybe she's become overprotective of it. :(

mini lop1
16-12-2009, 09:54 AM
Not good news. Grim doesn't want to be around her any more and she keeps charging him and pulling his fur. :(

I got them together in the bedroom to eat their advent calender treats but for the last few days Grim has decided he'd rather live downstairs. It really makes me sad because they were so happy together, the happiest I'd seen Grim in a long time. I'm going give them a little time apart I think while I figure out how to re bond them.

They both get so stressed in the dog crate as they're used to having so much more space, but one idea is to use the hutch as they both love it in there. But that means slowly adjusting them to the outside temperature... and at the moment that's a mammoth task.

The thing that annoys me is that if I put them next to each other and cuddle them they're fine, they went to the vets in the same carry case and were fine and if I give them treats together they will both eat out of my hand. You'd think competing for food would set them off.

The only other thing I can think of is that Grim does like to come downstairs sometimes and Sam prefers to stay in the bedroom, so maybe she's become overprotective of it. :(

could she being hormonal, rosie used to get like this end of january every year and for last 2years when i had mowgli i had to separate them both for a month or 2 until rosie calmed down, the rest of the time they were devoted to each other :wave:
when rosie was like this mowgli used to want to get away and spent most of his time sat ont he bed with me to be out of her way :oops: :lol: as soon as he jumped to the floor she'd immediately charge at him and bite etc

louise and Gus
16-12-2009, 10:17 AM
I think you are over thinking this a bit, I don't think their emotions are that complex and I would think it much more likely that the smell of your friends bunny started them off. I would start from scratch as if you were bonding again, so small neutral area for at least a week? If they don't fight, increase the area gradually.

Jenova
16-12-2009, 11:02 AM
Yeah I probably am overthinking... thanks. :)

areia
16-12-2009, 11:13 AM
can i just ask are you moving them around the house???? while you are doing the bonding

they have to stay in the same place not to be touched or moved or allowed to roam,

do you drive?? take them both for a short drive together in a carry case

the whole thing does take time, if they are not fighting leave them to it

Jenova
16-12-2009, 11:22 AM
Nope, they were originally bonded in a dog crate in my bedroom. After 24 hours they were inseparable for over a month. Now they're fighting. When Grim is scared of her he jumps on my bed and won't come off it, not to pee, poo, eat or drink. He's been to the toilet on my boyfriend's head during the night. :?

They get free run of the house when I'm about and as I'm on Christmas holidays that's pretty much all day. Grim has now moved downstairs while Samus stays in the room. It's better than pee on the bed...

I put them in the dog crate again for 24 hours and after a quick fight settled down. But Samus chewed on the bars all night. I let them out and I thought all was fine, but as I'd left the room, Grim had snuck out between my legs and he was downstairs for two hours before I noticed him. :roll:

I don't want to stress them again by using the dog crate which is why I'm considering the hutch.

poppymoon
16-12-2009, 11:31 AM
i hope you can work out a way forward for them.
i've resigned myself to the fact that i won't risk re-introducing my 2 as the last fight resulted in a vet trip and a terrified, anorexic rabbit. i now have one in the living room and one in the kitchen/dining room. both seem much happier which is very sad as they were friends for 3+ months. its not ideal i know but even the neutral territory of a totally different house didn't assist with re-bonding.

areia
16-12-2009, 11:31 AM
sounds like grims wrapping you round his fingers :lol: girls do tend to be a little more territorial of there space,my carrie rarely moves she like her dog basket and thats it, beth is the same, where as the boys do like to roam and run around like fruit loops, he prolly gets the hump when you put them to bed yes ?


i think it would be better if you chose either upstairs or downstairs for there space and use a stairgate, if you think a hutch would be better then go for it, why not do a NIC set up on 2 levels,

one of my pairs still have the odd scrap now and then mainly when locked in

bunnymadhouse
16-12-2009, 11:52 AM
oh no ... this has made me sad ...such a shame when all was going so well .. :(

is grimlock fit and well at the moment .. Flopsey always used to pick on thumper when he was unwell .. at one point i had to split them and they stayed apart for years in which thumps was paired with another bun ...then they went back together and were fine .

Jenova
16-12-2009, 12:23 PM
He's almost well. Only one injection today and one more to go. But he can't bite back having no teeth.

And yes... he does have me wrapped round his fingers... or claws. I had them in the front room with me while I was lying on the couch and he jumped up and sat on my belly. Grim never sits on me. But he does come to me for protection.

She is the dominant one, primarily because she has the teeth. But Grimlock isn't happy with that. Well he's just going to have to learn not to be spoiled. Or rather, I'm going to have to learn not to spoil him...

It's not full on fighting, just a bit of fur pulling, so I'm certain they'll be back together before Christmas. I've just got to figure out the best and least stressful way to do it.

Kermit
16-12-2009, 12:52 PM
I do hope they get on again.

My Inca is the most dominant, and my Herbie has no teeth! But Herbie seems to be fine with this, he just acts like he couldnt care less!

Jenova
16-12-2009, 12:53 PM
Grimlock is stubborn and spoilt. So I only have myself to blame.