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View Full Version : Eye removal question/ includes piccys/ UD post 40



Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 10:03 AM
We have had lots of different eye problems to cope with at our sanctuary but we have never had any experience with actual eye removal.

Now I am thinking that when a bunny has an eye removed the lids are stitched together and it is neat and tidy. The eye isn't just removed and the socket left exposed :?

Having had a good look at our new arrival Frank this morning, he has got an empty socket that is full of pus and red raw tissue :( Now obviously the pus thing is wrong but I am wondering that if the socket has been left exposed, whether it is infected or not, then maybe he hasn't had the eye surgically removed but rather there is a chance he was born without it :?

Obviously he is going to the vets, but I was just wondering about how the eye came to be missing so I look a bit more informed when we see the vet :lol:

So basically my question is - Is it possible for a vet to remove an eye surgically and leave an open socket?

I have included a couple of piccys but it is hard to se anything clearly

This is after I have cleaned it up, pus was oozing out on his face before that

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii306/hugosthere/PC130186.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii306/hugosthere/PC130187.jpg

And some of his pretty face

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii306/hugosthere/PC130185.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii306/hugosthere/PC130184.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii306/hugosthere/PC130180.jpg

sacol4940
13-12-2009, 10:18 AM
Dont have any eye advice sorry, but just wanted to say that he's a very cute little man :love:

louise and Gus
13-12-2009, 10:21 AM
:shock: :shock: That doesn't look right :?

I did a bunnyrun for a wonderful 10yr old dutch who had her eye removed and as you said the lids were stiched together, there was no open areas or wounds. I met her about a week after the op and there was no pus or anything. Maybe he pulled the stiches out and the owners didn't realise?

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 10:23 AM
:shock: :shock: That doesn't look right :?

I did a bunnyrun for a wonderful 10yr old dutch who had her eye removed and as you said the lids were stiched together, there was no open areas or wounds. I met her about a week after the op and there was no pus or anything

Thats what I thought, all the pictures I have seen of any animal with a surgically removed eye, it has been stitched together.

Like I said I know the infection isn't right and he will see be seeing a vet. But even if there was no infection surely there should be no open socket :(

It would have been nice for the rescue to actually tell me there was a problem with his eye, rather than just letting us collect him with no info :roll:

The Duchess
13-12-2009, 10:53 AM
Hi Liz

One of my own rabbits has had both of his eyes enucliated and they simply look like his eye is closed and he's sleeping. Very neat and each one done by two different vets at our practice.

I know someone whose rabbit has had an eye out and the closure wasn't total (not deliberately though) and it keeps weeping from a tiny whole in the corner. It isn't good.

I don't know for sure but would imagine that any socket left open would be an open invitation to infection - can't see that this would ever be good practice.

Hope it's sorted easily - shame about you not knowing before hand!

Kermit
13-12-2009, 10:55 AM
What a beautiful boy :love:

Bluesmum
13-12-2009, 10:57 AM
Mums JRT has one eye, and the lids were stitched together, so it just looked like he had it closed.
There was also a horse I used to know who had had an eye removed, looked a bit odd cause it was almost like a cavern in her face, but the lids were stitched.
Have you called the rescue he came from to ask whats going on and when it was done?

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 11:03 AM
Just wanted to add, the bunny wasn't from Starlights, Frank was just dropped there to make it easy for Steve to collect him when he dropped Marnie.

None of the 3 rabbits we collected from Kris's yesterday were Kris's rescue rabbits, she just kindly let her house be a meeting place :) Don't want any wrong conclusions jumped to like last week :?

ShazzaBunny
13-12-2009, 11:20 AM
These are the pics i took after Summers eye removal, i dont know if they will help, but everything is all neat and tidy.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/dynno/Flynnhoppong022.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/dynno/Flynnhoppong042.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/dynno/Flynnhoppong026.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/dynno/Flynnhoppong034.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/dynno/helix021.jpg

ShazzaBunny
13-12-2009, 11:21 AM
P.S. Frank is gorgeous :love:

Phoebesmummy9
13-12-2009, 11:28 AM
I should imagine it would be stitched up to prevent infections in the socket etc.
Poor little mite :( he looks like my Phoebe!

Suzanne
13-12-2009, 11:29 AM
Poor boy - I'm sure that's not right and def looks infected. I hope the vet can sort him out. I would be interested to know his story and why his eye was removed (re: Pipkin)

Bluesmum
13-12-2009, 11:36 AM
Just wanted to add, the bunny wasn't from Starlights, Frank was just dropped there to make it easy for Steve to collect him when he dropped Marnie.

None of the 3 rabbits we collected from Kris's yesterday were Kris's rescue rabbits, she just kindly let her house be a meeting place :) Don't want any wrong conclusions jumped to like last week :?

Was probably a good thing that I had to leave Kris so early....It would have been chaos otherwise :lol:
(although I'm sure it would have been busy enough that I could have stolen Cookie ;) )

LilVicky
13-12-2009, 11:40 AM
when toffee had his eye removed, it was all stitched up.
i think you should take him to the vet so they can take alook at that, it looks soo sore! :(

~ Cat ~
13-12-2009, 11:42 AM
They stitch them up all neat and tidy.

BiBi had his eye removed - maybe ask his owner?

vicki267
13-12-2009, 11:46 AM
Steve was exactly the same. Came to me with an open wound and pus coming out.

It wont heal but it cant be stitched up at the moment.

Steve was put on Oxytetrin(sp) and I had to flush his eye out once or twice a day for just over a week before I could have his op.

The vet who did the corrective surgery, scooped out all the old tissue, put some manuka honey into the socket and then stitched the eyelids back together. Steve is now fine :D

One thing that might have happened is his eye actually was stitched up but not enough of either eye lid was removed, hence opening up the wound and curling back on itself causing infection. If this is the case they'll need to remove more of the lids. It may also be the tear duct.

He's lovely tough :love: You know me and one eyed buns :love:

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 12:22 PM
Thank you so much for your replies. Thank you Shazzabunny, that is what I would have expected to see.

And thank you Vicki I was hoping for your imput :wave: I hadn't thought about the surgery being done correctly and then the wound breaking down. If that is the case it is heartbreaking to think that no-one followed up his treatment :(

Frank is booked in at the vets Tuesday, as he is fine and well in himself :)

I have no info on his history so we will just have to work with what we have in front of us. I am expecting to have to keep the wound clean and give antbiotics etc for a while before any surgery can be attempted :)

Starlight
13-12-2009, 12:27 PM
I think this is the problem when you run off a foster based system with a rescue. If the foster is a fair distance from said vet, how can you guarantee it will get to the same vet if follow up treatment is needed? :? And how can you keep an eye on their progress at a fosters unless you speak every few days?

That said, Frank is a beautiful boy and he ran straight over to me on arrival for a cuddle :love:

Michelleox
13-12-2009, 12:31 PM
Poor Frank :(

abbymarysmokey
13-12-2009, 12:35 PM
I knew a bunny who had an eye removed, but the wound got infected and needed to be opened up again to relieve the pressure and let the infection out. Could this have happened here?

AFAIK many eye removals are done due to retrobulbar abscess, which is very likely to reoccur if all of the infected material isn't removed.

This bun needs to start antibiotic treatment asap (I'm sure I don't need to tell you that though)

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 12:36 PM
I think this is the problem when you run off a foster based system with a rescue. If the foster is a fair distance from said vet, how can you guarantee it will get to the same vet if follow up treatment is needed? :? And how can you keep an eye on their progress at a fosters unless you speak every few days?

That said, Frank is a beautiful boy and he ran straight over to me on arrival for a cuddle :love:

Very true.

I wasn't under the impression that the eye removal was a recent thing though. I assumed from the way it was mentioned that it happened before he arrived at the rescue as he hasn't been with them long :? The only treatment he had from the note I was given is a tear duct flush and no antibiotics :?

giantbunnymummy
13-12-2009, 01:26 PM
Sending vibes for Frank and his poorly eye. He looks like a lovely boy :love:

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 02:28 PM
Even more miffed now :(

Just gone back to checked passed emails and it states that Frank had a health check at the vets when he went to the rescue and had no health problems:shock: This was a month ago :?

His eye "surgery" if thats what happened, was done before he went to the rescue, so that means he has had an open socket, probably infected throughout, for quite sometime :(

I can see this boy needing a major op, and at over 7 years old this isn't going to be easy for him. I can also see the vet bill going into the 100's.

Fingers crossed its not as bad as it seems when he is at the vets Tuesday :?

Starlight
13-12-2009, 02:36 PM
How bizarre :?

They use the same vets as me, and there is no way my vets would not have picked up on his eyes, especially if noted to them about his past troubles with it :?

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 02:40 PM
How bizarre :?

They use the same vets as me, and there is no way my vets would not have picked up on his eyes, especially if noted to them about his past troubles with it :?

But I have the receipt for his treatment in November. they gave him a tear duct flush under GA and thats it :shock: No antibiotics, anything :roll: and then the rescue have emailed me to say he has no health problems no mention of a GA or eye problems :shock:

It wouldn't have made any difference to us taking him so why lie to us and then give us the receipt. :?

I think they need to be slightly more honest with potential new owners or they are going to become unstuck :(

At least Frank is here now and is going to get all the treatment he needs and thats the important thing :)

Starlight
13-12-2009, 02:47 PM
But I have the receipt for his treatment in November. they gave him a tear duct flush under GA and thats it :shock: No antibiotics, anything :roll: and then the rescue have emailed me to say he has no health problems no mention of a GA or eye problems :shock:

It wouldn't have made any difference to us taking him so why lie to us and then give us the receipt. :?

I think they need to be slightly more honest with potential new owners or they are going to become unstuck :(

At least Frank is here now and is going to get all the treatment he needs and thats the important thing :)



How was he first described to you when you took him in?

Poor little man, he is such a loving bun :(

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 02:52 PM
How was he first described to you when you took him in?

Poor little man, he is such a loving bun :(

This is copied and pasted from the email

Frank is now with us as a 3rd time rescue rabbit (hasn't previously been with us though) we had him health checked last week and he's ok for his age, no teeth or health problems, just old

Starlight
13-12-2009, 02:56 PM
This is copied and pasted from the email

Frank is now with us as a 3rd time rescue rabbit (hasn't previously been with us though) we had him health checked last week and he's ok for his age, no teeth or health problems, just old

Hmm, yeah, that is definately off. :? :roll:

Has he eaten since arriving? He only had a little nibble on carrot here and wasn't interested in anything else.

I almost didn't give Frank over yesterday, he is just too loveable! We spent the time waiting snuggled up on the sofa on RU :lol: :love:

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 04:09 PM
No he's not eating, just drinking. He doesn't seem ill as such and is washing and moving around, so hopefully its just the stress of the journey :?

I don't want to start syringe feeding him if it is stress related so if he hasn't eaten by morning we will get him to the vets as soon as it opens

vicki267
13-12-2009, 04:35 PM
If it helps, one of my vets quoted 350 for his op and said he would be under GA for at least 30 mins.

Another vet I use promised it wouldn't go over 100, but the reason why I chose them was that they said he would only be under for 15 mins.

It sounds like he needs very similar treatment to Stevie. I was trying to find some piccies of him earlier when computer messed up on me so I will have another look later.

x

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 04:42 PM
If it helps, one of my vets quoted 350 for his op and said he would be under GA for at least 30 mins.
Another vet I use promised it wouldn't go over 100, but the reason why I chose them was that they said he would only be under for 15 mins.

It sounds like he needs very similar treatment to Stevie. I was trying to find some piccies of him earlier when computer messed up on me so I will have another look later.

x

:(:(:(

Unfortunately I will just have to accept whatever my vets quote me. I was guessing around 200. I know it is 120 for eye removal :?

Jetstreem
13-12-2009, 07:17 PM
A rabbit I worked with had his eye removed after an accident prior to being admitted to the sanctuary.

When he had his eye removed the vet just stitched together the eye lids. 3 Days later he had a stinking infection in the socket and had to be rushed to our vets to have it re-opened and cleaned.

Once the socket was re-opened our vet cut away as much of the tear duct as possible and then packed the eye socket with a swab and just put two stitches in, one at either end of the eye, leaving a hole to replace the swab through.

Jasper had the swab changed every couple of days and each time less and less swab was used so that the socket healed over from the inside out. He was also on depocillin injections every other day for 5 weeks to get rid of the infection. The socket healed up beautifully and it just looks like he has his eye closed, there is no lumpyness or scarring around the eye at all.

No his eye only weeps a very tiny amount once in a while. He has never had a problem with infection in it, and you can only see a tiny tiny hole if you really look for it.

It is definately the neatest eye removal I have ever seen, and would definately want any other eye removals done the same way.

Hope you get little Frank's eye sorted soon, he looks adorable. :love:

Cerys :)

Victoria39
13-12-2009, 07:40 PM
Bluebell had her eye removed a few months back. Unfortunately an infection set in and and the stitches burst open. The vet cleaned the puss out of the wound and left it open. The picture very much looks like Bluebell after the stitches burst.

I cleaned the open wound and it healed nicely without the need for further stitches.

Sending oodles of noserubs to the handsome fella :love:

vicki267
13-12-2009, 08:18 PM
Although some eyes will heal up, Stevie's wouldn't. I adopted him in May and by late August I really had no other option than to operate as it wasn't getting any better. :(

Hope your vet can give you an idea of what the plan is.

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 08:52 PM
Thank you so much for al the info, it has really helped.

My new theory is that he had his eye removed by his previous owners, it went wrong so they handed him into a rescue and they failed to treat it :? Obviously this is only a guess but it seems the most likely explaination to me.

On the plus side he has eaten a little bit of green, but nothing else. I have just taken him out a heatpad that was kindly donated to us :)

vicki267
13-12-2009, 10:25 PM
Do his teeth look OK?

Just a thought if he's not eating much and obviously has eye problems?

Hugo's There
13-12-2009, 10:37 PM
Do his teeth look OK?

Just a thought if he's not eating much and obviously has eye problems?

I haven't looked, I didn't want to stress him too much, its all been a bit much for the poor old boy. But I am thinking a long those lines too :(

Bungle bunny
13-12-2009, 11:40 PM
Hi Liz, what an absolut gorgeous bunny, I hope he is going to be ok. Hope your ok too

Hugo's There
14-12-2009, 10:25 AM
Thank you :wave:

Frank has eaten all his food over night :) We have decided to stick with tomorrows vets appointment as I don't want to stress him again today

Hugo's There
15-12-2009, 01:15 PM
Frank has seen the vet. He needs to be on antibiotics for at least a week before having an op to stitch his eye.

The vet said it had definately been surgically removed but couldn't tell if it had been deliberately left open or had broken down :?

Bluesmum
15-12-2009, 01:34 PM
Poor little man :(
Hopefully the antibiotics will work and he'll be able to have his eye sorted out.
Tons of vibes and snuggles for him :love:

vicki267
15-12-2009, 03:21 PM
What abx have they decided to put him on?

louise and Gus
15-12-2009, 03:43 PM
Aww poor little man, hope the abx kick in quickly.

Hugo's There
15-12-2009, 04:17 PM
What abx have they decided to put him on?

Septrin:wave:

louise and Gus
15-12-2009, 04:38 PM
Septrin:wave:

Yummy!

abbymarysmokey
15-12-2009, 04:41 PM
Has he had a C&S done? A wound like that would be a perfect candidate for a sample to be taken.

Hugo's There
15-12-2009, 04:42 PM
No. TBH There wasn't much pus in it at all today I didn't even need to bathe it :D

ShazzaBunny
15-12-2009, 05:25 PM
Aww bless him, hope he is feeling much better soon and able to get it stitched up again.

LilVicky
15-12-2009, 05:40 PM
Aww, i hope he gets that sorted soon!
Lots of vibes xx

Hugo's There
15-12-2009, 08:23 PM
I have emailed the rescue i got Frank from now that he has seen a vet and they were so concerned that they rang me up :)

At least I have some more info now. His eye was stitched together when he arrived at there rescue and it only came apart on Thursday. It was removed originally due to an abscess. This really concerns me as if it was removed that long ago and it has come a part and infected at this late stage with no signs of healing inside its not good news :(

I was hoping it was due to injury as he has some old scars on his ears but apparently this is due to a fox attack, so poor Frank has had a really traumatic time of it :(

Anyway the rescue was really apologetic and said they didn;t realise how bad his eye was :( It would never have stopped us taking him even if we had of known. I just hope we can get the infection under control and get him well again.

LilVicky
15-12-2009, 08:57 PM
poor Frank :'(
He sounds like his been through it all :(

i hope he heals and gets better!
Im sure with you taking good care of him he will!

:love:

Suzanne
16-12-2009, 08:32 AM
Sounds like the poor boy has been through so much. :(

Jenova
16-12-2009, 09:34 AM
Poor little boy. Give him a hug from me.

Bobbin
16-12-2009, 04:47 PM
Hi
I've just seen this post and am at work and can't read all the replies.... but... I am proud Mummy of Banjo who was born with a poorly eye and had to have it removed. He is absolutely fine and just looks a little odd because although there is nothing to see (eyelids stitched together and healed up), he doesn't have the cartilege where his eyebrow used to be, so his face is a bit flatter on one side.
He's a French Lop btw, and I took him because he really needed a home with an experienced owner. He's a total joy to have around, and I think it was quite a relief to him to lose the eye - he couldn't see out of it anyway.

I'm sure that your bun will be fine - the pus will need to be drained of course, but you may be surprised by how fast he improves.

Dx

VikkiVet
16-12-2009, 05:34 PM
Hey Liz
only just seen this, so not sure how much use by input would be, but from our surgery lectures at uni (so this is theory, not practice as not seen one yet) when they do eye removal surgery they either
(a) stitch is closed but insert a drain - you're probably seen one, like a piece of tubing, that allows the pus or any other fluid collection, to escape from the wound. This is because the socket essentially becomes 'dead space' and even with incredibly aseptic surgery its easy for them to become infected and fill with pus as the immune cells can't penetrate to do anything about it.
(b) leave it open or partially open - this is for the same reason, but it allows the socket to drain naturally, and the tissues heal by 'second intention' i.e. granulation tissue naturally forms over the socket tissue, then epithelium. the wound naturally contracts down and the eyelids heal together, which is more likely to be lumpy but is naturally resistant to infection.

So, if it was left open or partly open they may have gone for the second option, but this does normally require very intensive nursing, for obvious reasons, so would normally be kept in hospital.

It doesnt surprise me that so many eye removals have ended in infection as its really hard to prevent anyway, especially as it sounds like most didnt have drains fitted? :?

abbymarysmokey
16-12-2009, 05:53 PM
It doesnt surprise me that so many eye removals have ended in infection as its really hard to prevent anyway, especially as it sounds like most didnt have drains fitted? :?

AFAIK rabbits don't have drains fitted because their pus doesn't drain away, it just sits in the wound like cottage cheese

VikkiVet
17-12-2009, 12:19 PM
AFAIK rabbits don't have drains fitted because their pus doesn't drain away, it just sits in the wound like cottage cheese

I've seen rabbits with drains, the aim is to prevent the pus from sitting in the wound. If it doesnt drain regularly they should have either an active drain fitted or daily wound flushing. It should never just be left in there. if its turned to cottage cheese its been left too long.

abbymarysmokey
18-12-2009, 01:57 AM
I've seen rabbits with drains, the aim is to prevent the pus from sitting in the wound. If it doesnt drain regularly they should have either an active drain fitted or daily wound flushing. It should never just be left in there. if its turned to cottage cheese its been left too long.

Is the drain left in to keep the wound open for flushing? Or is it to encourage it to dry out with contact with the air? It's something I've never seen (or really thought about) before, so would be very interesting to know a bit more :wave: