Very confused and worried- any thoughts??????

Dexter has had runny poop three times in three months now. I've had rabbits a long time, so I know this can be serious.

I cleaned him up last night, and left him with fresh hay and water while i had a shower. When i came back down, he was messy again and literally everywhere he hopped, he left a little wet sludgy poop. No consistency at all, just really sloppy. Normally he's so good about using his litter tray etc.

I called the vet. Took him straight over. Vet gave him a tranquillizer to solidify what he was producing (?? always thought there were only opiates available as a laxative type thing to treat a blocked gut and there was nothing to slow the gut down as such... but this had the desired effect anyhow). He took his temperature and it was slightly elevated (38.9), so poor Dex had some antibiotics too.

vet gave me a pot to collect a sample as i explained this was the third time etc... although in the end it wasn't sent for testing.

Avipro supply only arrived this am, and by this morning he was fine, so hasn't had the avipro and am reluctant to give it to him now in case i upset things even more.

Basically....

had to go back to vet tonight for check up and another dose of antibiotics (??really, surely i could have brought him in if necessary otherwise monitored @ home and avoided the need for another stressful car trip to vets?)

temp is now much better 39.1, and at no point has his demeanor changed in any way.

The issue i am having is around diet. I have NO idea how this keeps happening. Cannot identify anything he's eaten that could be dodgy. I have always fed my rabbits very carefully on a mixture of burgess pellets, veg, 24/7 hay, fresh water, grass and the odd bit of fruit as a treat. No problems.
dex was having his veg am, hay all day and then pellets in the evening. Water all day too, obviously. gets the odd treat... mixed herbs/mixed berry sticks from p@h. he usually had kale and a carrot/parsnip or some pak choi or broccoli in the morning... tried to mix it up a little bit to prevent boredom. Introduce new foods slowly etc...

Now the nasty bum. Vet thinks he should be fed like a wild bun.... constant hay and grass am and pm. No more pellets, at all. Nothing else but hay, grass and the odd bit of veg. i am worried about this on two counts.

1. his weight. he's a giant papillon, nine months old, weighs 5.9kg. If i remove the pellets from his diet, his weight may drop... and tbh if it falls below 5kg I will be seriously worried. he is extremely lean as it is. yes, they're meant to be built like that, and its not normal for them to be chunky...the last thing i want is an unhealthy bun, but i seriously think he could do with putting a few lb on and not loosing any.

2. He's never really had grass... I know this sounds awful, but when he came to live here I hand built him the MOST massive run to get exercise every day on the lawn. This was the plan. However, until he was castrated three months ago he was very aggressive. I still have scars that look like i was self harming.... (tell people you're not, and its just the giant rabbit... and they look at you strangely) so i had him castrated and he's now a housebun. It's taken time to build trust... he had to stay off the grass until his wound healed (three attempts after pulling out stitches and chewing the missing plums) and since then the grass has been really long given that it's winter and he'd just end up soggy. Not an excuse i know.... but i have a harness that is safe and suitable for a giant and as soon as the lawn can be mowed he will be gradually being introduced to grass on the harness, and eventually free range in the run for gradually longer periods of time. Until then i can cut some grass and introduce it to his diet gradually.

He gets tons of exercise, lives in our massive utility room (see other thread for pics) and when were home every eve/every weekend/ and some weekdays he either comes into the lounge for cuddles with us on the sofa or has free run of the kitchen, utility room, hall and lounge. He has a ton of toys.

Is this good advice from my vet? What do i feed him? Vet says nothing but hay for a week. Am i doing something basically wrong? yes, every rabbit is different, but i have done the same in regard to food for all my buns, and never ever had a problem. Why is this happening? Are giants different in their food requirements? i didn't think they were, other than quantity... am i feeding in the wrong quantities?

I stopped feeding kale daily because of the calcium and sludgy urine issue and limit to twice a week at most. No sludgy urine ever tho.

Need some advice. Don't trust the conflicting information i'm being given and im not willing to treat Dex as some sort of test case.

Any thoughts? sorry for the long post.

Hi (my emoticons aren't working) what hay do you feed? Is there anyway you get get a couple of varieties like Timothy Hay, Burgess Excel, Burns Oat Hay (if you can get it) and maybe just feed a small piece (teaspoon size) of banana with some fibreplex in the middle, make a little sandwich ? You could also get some dried dandelion from PAH and mix with his hay. I was told Dill was also a good 'settling' type herb you could feed a small amount in the hay mix and see how it goes. You can't really go against the vet - but, you can adapt it slightly as above, if your really not happy with the vets advice how about finding another one for a second opinion.

Yeah I agree you should get another opinion.
You would have to gradually cut the food back until your left with just hay as well.
You might want to try cutting out each food group slowly and see if this helps.
My bun has runny poo too and I tried cutting her pellets out and it still happened so I cut the veg out and this helped. Obviously it took me nearly a month to get to this conclusion as I did it gradually.
Now I have cut veg from her diet completely and my vet says this is fine as long as she gets plenty of hay in her diet which she does.
I also give her dried herbs more now like plantain, marigold,dandelion, chicory ect and you can get an excel country garden herbs pack with those and more mixed in for veriety.
You obviously care loads for your bun and I hope he gets better soon x

ive cut apples grapes and most other fruits from one of my buns diets as her poos started to go funny, when i tried her again it was deffinatly the fruit with my bun,

i would cut back to just hay and small amount of pellets, then try on one fruit or veg and watch to see if theres a reaction

id avoid shop treats

keep a diary as well then youll know

Thank you for the advice guys, he looked so sad tonight.... and i couldn't resist, so he's had a few pellets.... but not enough to do any damage, and i'll have to re-introduce them gradually but i guess only ever in small quantities (not that he was ever eating them in large quantities) maybe if thats okay, we can have a go with some veg again.

(and breathe.... i just realised that is the worlds longest sentence :lol: )
slowly slowly catchey monkey.

keep up the unlimited hay, i would sugest trying to wean him onto a differnt pellet maybe science select? prehaps the pellet type is the issue or rehaps the treat of fruit i know previously there has been a big discussion on if parsnips should be given to buns and i decided to stop feeding it to mine jsut in case, so prehaps try not giving parsnip? i would suggest cutting down any fruit/ veg or stickign to the same 2 or 3 jsut in case the variety is causeing troubles slowly, but i would still continue the pellets as i think particularly for a house bun they need the vitamins they dont get from the natrual plants and sunlight etc outside. also are there any human snaksmaybe he is sneaking in the house,,even something as small as a dropped chip or pea prehaps? x

i would sugest trying to wean him onto a differnt pellet maybe science select? prehaps the pellet type is the issue

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feeding burgess excel atm, thought they were the best as they had the highest fibre content, but i guess it doesnt matter how good they are, all buns will be different and maybe these science ones are better for Dex? Not heard of these... do you feed yours on them? anyone else have any experience with them? I'll google them too... (yes i'm obsessive)

i know previously there has been a big discussion on if parsnips should be given to buns and i decided to stop feeding it to mine jsut in case

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REALLY??? blimey, that worries me, whats the issue with parsnip? I havent heard this before... :?

i would suggest cutting down any fruit/ veg or stickign to the same 2 or 3 jsut in case the variety is causeing troubles slowly,

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good idea I'll introduce again slowly after a while, one at a time so i can monitor.

but i would still continue the pellets as i think particularly for a house bun they need the vitamins they dont get from the natrual plants and sunlight etc outside.

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Definately get him outside every day when the weather warms up. Don't want any shocks from temp change atm, and its just too cold out there. Are there disadvantages to being a housebun then? Thought i was doing the right thing in terms of increasing the time i spend with him, keeping him safe, providing stimulation etc. I understand they need vitamin d (sunshine) etc just like we do, so figured he'd get the best of both worlds if he lived indoors but got some outside time each day... is he at risk by being indoors? can i do something to make it better? also, i have a friend who says to feed him brambles for a squitty bum???? whats a good outside plant i can feed him, are there a few? (Im a bit clueless about plant stuff!!)

also are there any human snaksmaybe he is sneaking in the house,,even something as small as a dropped chip or pea prehaps? x

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I'm 99% sure he hasn't... he's very good really, never so much as thought about chewing a door or a cupboard... and all cleaning stuff etc is stored safely away. Actually went round on all fours at bunny height when he moved in to check what he could see and do to cause trouble. He's in the utility room, so no food in there, and when he comes out for playtime he's supervised. No chips. Also, im kinda ocd like about cleaning.

Absolutely racked my brains to think of causes. again 99% sure its not a stress thing, and nothing unusual to eat... so it must be a regular dietary cause. But there are literally hundreds of explanations.,,, feel like im looking for the proverbial needle. :roll:

I use both Excell & Science selective (mixed) [Recently thought that he was having problems with Excell but he wasn't!]

I agree that we need to be careful about excluding dry feed from a growing bun or bun that is low weight.

Are there normal waste poops as well as runny "slops"? & are the sloppy ones smelly?
If so the bacteria are unbalanced in the bowel.

Either the bowel is slow moving & needs fiber = hay/bark/tough leaves eg bramble/raspberry (next year).
Or there is too much starch/sugar for him in his diet. Buns vary a lot in what they can tolerate. Root veg have a lot of starch, fruit has various sugars.
Much more rarely buns don't get on with the sort of green veg that we eat.

I had a lot of difficulty with my bun due to tiny molar spurs, but he had gut problems every 2-3 weeks, & wouldn't eat hay at all. Grass & tree leaves & a wild diet is the only reason he survived. Unfortunately the wild plants have all died back now.

Fibreplex does what it say's on the tube - Fibre - I suggested the small piece of banana just to get it down him easier than straight from the syringe type applicator. Your vet will stock this and instructions are on the packet. Also as I said before hay and fresh herbs with an egg cup size amount of pellets should be fine providing the hay is unlimited and preferably varied and good quality. I would let him out at least once a day for a run around (even in the cold) providing he is moving around which he will they soon warm up - the prob would only occur if you put him straight out into a run for a couple of hours say, that wouldn't be good. If its to free range for a couple of short bursts particularly to grab a few rays it will only do him good.