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Starlight
17-11-2009, 11:45 PM
To fight with Autumn right until the end?

Just i believe i did the right thing but i have just been jumped on by a member on another forum who claims she should have been "destroyed"

It was over the subject of quarantine when i was explaining to a member why she should do it before bonding when this member said

"thats coming from someone who had a rabbit with myxi that could have wiped out her own and every rescue rabbit in her care
now personally i think that is the worst risk you could ever put your rabbits through that was not worth a risk"

And who says

"you decided to let your poor rabbit suffer a long painful death at the risk of your own and any in the rescue part of things"


I only recieved my darling back this afternoon and this is the last thing i needed.

lilbun
17-11-2009, 11:50 PM
That was such an awful thing for them to say...they must be very bitter.

Of course you were right to give her a chance, and it really looked as though she was going to make it, just as Viola Rose did. Should she have been 'destroyed' too?

nursecroft
17-11-2009, 11:53 PM
Kris you did what you thought was right, no-one else knows for sure what they would do with your particular animal in that situation and its none of their business. What an awful thing to say when you are grieving for her :? ignore them x

TeflonsShadow
17-11-2009, 11:56 PM
I think when the animal is yours, you know how long to fight for.

My bun Tipsy faught very hard against abcsesses for 6 months, yet when she first had one, all the vets we went to said to have her PTS. Finally we found one that would fight with us.

She had a few ops, medicane every day plus having her wounds cleaned out twice a day too. It must have been hard for her but her behaviour told us that she was still fighting.

After the abscesses were gone, she had a year illess free.

It was totally worth it.

The trouble with Autumn is that you didnt know the myxi had gone to her brain.

At least you had her on pain meds etc.

You knew her best, you would have known if she was telling you she wanted to give up.

Its sad that she went so sadly after her accident. Im sure if she hadnt had that accident she probably would have let you know the fight was over not long after.

I am sorry for your loss.

Dont let anyone tell you that you were wrong to hope she could overcome her illness.

You aught to congratulate your determination to give the girl a chance. Shame it was too much for her.

xx

willow the wisp
17-11-2009, 11:59 PM
Ignore hurtful ignorant comments like that. your love made you fight to the bitter end. You should be commended.

Bunny Buddy
18-11-2009, 12:00 AM
No you flipping weren't wrong!!

You took the appropriate precautions to do the best for both the rescue bunnies and your own bunnies and gave Autumn the best care she could possibly get. I, personally, as do most people on this forum, really admire all you did for Autumn.

I'm quite shocked at how some bunny owners come out with these things ... there was last week (in the same place) a lot of condemnation for someone being too attached to a doe with uterine cancer - I was quite shocked by some people's lack of compassion there also. It's a completely different mindset here (thank god).

Kermit
18-11-2009, 12:03 AM
No, you werent wrong, you did what was right for you and Autumn.

We know our own bunnies better than any random fool on a forum!

Dan 13
18-11-2009, 12:05 AM
Try not to let the nasty comments of one individual get to you. Look at all the support that you had whilst you were treating Autumn and that will show that you made the right decision.

Fuzzlebug
18-11-2009, 12:09 AM
I think when the animal is yours, you know how long to fight for.

I agree with this totally.

You knew her best and decided, rightly I think, to give her every chance of fighting the illness.

Some people can be so heartless with their criticism. :(

lottielouise
18-11-2009, 12:10 AM
You were never wrong to give her a chance.

areia
18-11-2009, 12:17 AM
another forum :shock::shock: now you see you should just stay here missy :p



to be honest its ONE comment out of many, yes there are people out there who would just go no PTS straight away, its was an individual decision, that person does not know you or your rabbit,

dont take it to heart hun sticks and stones you did what you thought was right, to be fair she survived beyond the average time of 14 days who is to know what would of happened in the future,

i think you would be asking us lots of "what if "questions and saying how even more guilty, if you had NOT tried,

VikkiVet
18-11-2009, 12:21 AM
You asked the question so i'll be honest, but please believe that this is not a personal attack or insult, and i dont think you were "wrong" for your choices.

I am notan advocate of the "fighting to the end" mentality. Certainly there are cases of many illnesses when protracted periods of intense and often uncomfortable treatment and recovery occur and result in resolution of the illness and a reasonable quality of life and lifespan afterwards. Anyone who says that they can tell definitively which case is which is a liar (that includes vets). But with experience and objectivity it is possible to determine the likelihood of this occuring - its only a probability and there are always animals (and human patients) that surprise us and defy the odds.

I read the whole of Autumn's myxi thread and looked at the pictures. i never examined her, saw her in person or saw her medical records or details of treatment. From what i did see and read, it seemed to me that although she had periods of recovery and improvement,the myxi was incredibly severe and affecting a number of tissues and systems. She received far beyond the normal course of therapy and nursing, but i think it was unlikely that she would have recovered.

At what point during the course of her illness that this could be determined or decided i can't say. its not a definitive thing. But i prefer to go with the idea that if an animal is very unlikely to improve or recover it is best to end their suffering quickly and humanely earlier in the course of the disease, than fight to the bitter end on the off-chance that they might make it, only for the ending to be the same. But as i said, no-one except you and your vet can say what the chances were.

I think you are knowledgeable and incredibly compassionate, and sought excellent veterinary advice at all stages. There is a possibility that your judgement was clouded by how attached you were to Autumn, by your long-held desire to own a Belgian hare and your understandable desire not to be defeated by such a hideous disease. But if this is the case then its a natural and normal response and you cannot be condemned for it.

Sorry i cant conclude either way, as i said, i just cant. these are my thoughts on the subject.

My greatest sympathy goes to you as you grieve. I know she was incredibly precious to you and i hope your memories of her will be of some comfort at this time xxxx

Starlight
18-11-2009, 12:24 AM
Her breed had nothing to do with it :cry:

I would have fought for any of my vaccinated girls.

Yes i always wanted a hare, but if you check my back threads, you will see it took me a while to bond with her, breed doesn't come into it when you love them.

Stator
18-11-2009, 12:27 AM
You always seem to get upset on other forums, why do you bother using them? Not being sarcastic, although it might sound that way, if I were you I'd leave them to be nasty to each other :roll:

kaths101
18-11-2009, 12:27 AM
:love::love:

As long as she wasnt in pain or in obvious extreme discomfort I would have carried on with treatment and done exactly as you did, you know and she knew you were making the right choices at the time and taking it day by day - we could tell that from your daily posts!!

Chin up - dont look back - no regrets!! You did your very best and all you need right now are the beautiful memories you have of Autumn x

Lib_n_bunny
18-11-2009, 12:29 AM
But i prefer to go with the idea that if an animal is very unlikely to improve or recover it is best to end their suffering quickly and humanely earlier in the course of the disease, than fight to the bitter end on the off-chance that they might make it, only for the ending to be the same. But as i said, no-one except you and your vet can say what the chances were.


But how can you be sure if they will improve or recover? I think that although Autumn's nodules *looked* horrific, she was generally eating, pooing, and... (I forget, memory's awful, but Kris said something that made me think she can't be in pain) flopping(?) I think Kris and her vet must have had some hope that she would improve or recover, and as you yourself said, that should be the parameter by which we judge when to PTS.

Starlight
18-11-2009, 12:29 AM
You always seem to get upset on other forums, why do you bother using them? Not being sarcastic, although it might sound that way, if I were you I'd leave them to be nasty to each other :roll:


I was on there trying to educate mis informed owners.

I was posting re: quarantine and why they should be when i was jumped upon for something unrelated to the thread's animals....

Jenova
18-11-2009, 12:36 AM
I totally agree with the people who say that she is your rabbit. You love her and you know what's best. Everyone knows in their hearts when it's the right time to let an animal go. You knew she wanted to fight.

What is the one thing that animals do best in the wild? They survive. They go against all odds to fight and to live. They will fight until the very end to preserve what is precious to them. Their life.

Rabbits with myxomatosis can fight the disease and make it out the other side. We know this as there are many success stories on this forum. You had to fight for her because she wanted to fight. And if you didn't you would never have known if she could make it through the other side. Wouldn't that be worse than knowing you did all you could?

You did the right thing. No matter what anyone says they don't know your pet like you do. Everyone who loves their animals like we love ours knows when they want to give up and when they want to fight. We listen to our pets and we do what they want over what outsiders say is best.

How can you say you didn't do the right thing? Thinks of all the posts you made and pictures you posted of Autumn wolfing down her veggies and her herbs. She was fighting so you fought along side her. How can that be wrong?

lilbun
18-11-2009, 12:39 AM
I believe I would have done exactly the same for any of my buns as you did for Autumn. Even thoug the outcome was not what we hoped, her battle against this disease is an inspiration to others facing the same fight.

I am not against euthanasia at all, indeed I have helped many animals across the bridge, but I believe that whilst an animal is still fighting to live, has a reasonable quality of life, and a chance to recover I would try to give them that chance. You could not have foretold the outcome .

Yes, Autumn did look pretty poorly at times, but at other times she looked surprisingly well. Viola Rose also looked pretty poorly at times xx

lottielouise
18-11-2009, 12:41 AM
You always seem to get upset on other forums, why do you bother using them? Not being sarcastic, although it might sound that way, if I were you I'd leave them to be nasty to each other :roll:

Because if it gets another rabbit owner to understand their 'real' needs rather than what others think they need, then its another happy bunny, if it gets another bunny being neutered rather than rehomed for 'bad behaviour', or if Kris or any other rescue can rehome another rabbit to another quality home then it is worth it.

VickiP
18-11-2009, 12:42 AM
:wave: I think people will have different opinions on this but, I don't think anyone can judge you or tell you what you should or shouldn't have done. It's your decision and not an easy one to undertake, I admire you for giving it a good go and I am sorry for what happened in the end. You really shouldn't take it to heart. Some people engage their mouth before their brain and don't really understand the complexities of having to make an awful choice like that. You did what you thought was right, frankly it's no-one elses but, yours and your vets business, it annoys me that in trying to share and educate others you get 'flamed'. No one can judge you. x

Bunny Buddy
18-11-2009, 12:44 AM
Because if it gets another rabbit owner to understand their 'real' needs rather than what others think they need, then its another happy bunny, if it stops another bunny being neutered rather than rehomed for 'bad behaviour', or if Kris or any other rescue can rehome another rabbit to another quality home then it is worth it.

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment. It's like swimming against the tide at times but the more people who are willing to do it then this particular tide might well slow down, doubt it can be stopped but it's a bit like the signature someone (wish I could remember who) had about it making a difference to that starfish.

VikkiVet
18-11-2009, 12:45 AM
But how can you be sure if they will improve or recover? I think that although Autumn's nodules *looked* horrific, she was generally eating, pooing, and... (I forget, memory's awful, but Kris said something that made me think she can't be in pain) flopping(?) I think Kris and her vet must have had some hope that she would improve or recover, and as you yourself said, that should be the parameter by which we judge when to PTS.

As i said, you can't, you can only go on probability and odds - which of course can be beaten and cant be determined by outsiders. I agree they had hopes for recovery, if not i am sure the vet and Kris are wise and compassionate enough to euthanase when necessary. The question is do you/should you fight to the end? in my limited experience as a vet student i tend to stand on the "no" side but i dont condemn anyone who gives their animals a chance, even when its incredibly slim. as long as they receive adequate analgesia and an end-point is considered then each case has to be taken on its own merits.

Jenova
18-11-2009, 12:46 AM
I find it very hard to argue with people, but when I believe in the cause I will. It's weird on the internet because you can just walk away from it. Sometimes it's hard not to. So I must agree with lottielouise, getting others to understand can sometimes be upsetting, but I do think it's worth it.

VickiP
18-11-2009, 12:49 AM
As i said, you can't, you can only go on probability and odds - which of course can be beaten and cant be determined by outsiders. I agree they had hopes for recovery, if not i am sure the vet and Kris are wise and compassionate enough to euthanase when necessary. The question is do you/should you fight to the end? in my limited experience as a vet student i tend to stand on the "no" side but i dont condemn anyone who gives their animals a chance, even when its incredibly slim. as long as they receive adequate analgesia and an end-point is considered then each case has to be taken on its own merits.

:wave: I do agree with everything you've said aswell, it is very much personal choice with the vets advice.

lottielouise
18-11-2009, 12:57 AM
I find it very hard to argue with people, but when I believe in the cause I will. It's weird on the internet because you can just walk away from it. Sometimes it's hard not to. So I must agree with lottielouise, getting others to understand can sometimes be upsetting, but I do think it's worth it.

I think it makes people wonder wether it is worth it though, when others come across as intentially trying to upset you or back you into a corner.

Jenova
18-11-2009, 01:21 AM
I think it makes people wonder wether it is worth it though, when others come across as intentially trying to upset you or back you into a corner.

The world is full of people like that. They think they are right and they are so stubborn and narrow minded that not only would they never change, but they can't even accept that others may have a different opinion to them.

This forum is great because as long as I've been reading and posting people have always been understanding of others. We may not always agree but we do let people have their own opinions and ways of doing things. If we disagree then we tell someone respectfully no matter how strongly we disagree. We want to help each other, we want to learn.

Personally I would fight for a rabbit, for any of my pets as long as I believed they were willing to fight. My first rabbit, Lopsie got an abscess. He stopped eating, he wouldn't swallow recovery food and then he became unable to walk properly. I knew his time had come because he had given up. He had a long and happy life with me for eight years and I let him go to all the lady bunnies in the sky. It broke my heart. He is a piece of me that is gone forever, but I know I did the right thing.

Three years later I finally got another rabbit, Grimlock. He has always had health problems, the abscesses in his incisor roots being the worst. I was advised twice by my vet to have him put to sleep, but I knew that Grim is a fighter. I said I wanted to try to treat him. I saw a new vet. She wasn't a rabbit specialist but she phoned up vets all over the country to find him the best solution. I didn't think he'd last a month; it now been four and things are looking up.

This is my experience and my experience shapes my opinions. I can only give advice based on what I know and I know you should always follow your heart.

Rachel89
18-11-2009, 01:28 AM
Haveing read the other thread, I don't think it was fair to really bring it onto here.

Not everyone is misinformed on there, please do not try and make out everyone is treatign there rabbit badly :roll:

Yes I agree she may of not put it correctly, but as far as I'm aware even some other people on here at first before you mentioned worried about your quarantining.

I'm sorry for what happened to Autumn but Ive seen you give even worse then that too

louise and Gus
18-11-2009, 01:30 AM
I think if Autumn was someone else's bun and I was looking at pictures I may have wondered if the person was doing the right thing, however I saw Autumn on many occasions, the pictures look far worse than the reality and she always seemed alert and happy, I really thought she would pull through.

I do agree with Vikki that if it was a case of there being no light at the end of the tunnel then PTS would be the best option, but at no time did it seem hopeless for poor Autumn.

Kris as I told you I would have done exactly the same

Jenova
18-11-2009, 01:31 AM
Haveing read the other thread, I don't think it was fair to really bring it onto here.

Not everyone is misinformed on there, please do not try and make out everyone is treatign there rabbit badly :roll:

Yes I agree she may of not put it correctly, but as far as I'm aware even some other people on here at first before you mentioned worried about your quarantining.

I'm sorry for what happened to Autumn but Ive seen you give even worse then that too

I just think she's really upset and worried whether she did do the right thing, as this thread says. So posting on here just gets opinions from other people. It's a hard thing to go through.

Tuckerbunnies
18-11-2009, 01:33 AM
NO! you wasn't wrong to fight with Autumn to the very end and as for the very rude and ignorant person on the other forum that has upset you just ignore them.
I have seen a rescue rabbit with full blown Myxomatosis pull through after intensive care at Bunny Burrows in 2007 so it's always worth the fight to try and save them.
We know our rabbits and we know what they can and can't endure, it was your love that gave her the strength to fight and what you did was try to save her because that's what we do because we love them so much.

louise and Gus
18-11-2009, 01:38 AM
See I don't agree that it's always worth the fight, if a bun was suffering too much even if they may recover I think (and hope) I would PTS. However at no point did I even question if Kris was doing the right thing, again despite how the pictures look Autumn was not suffering that much, uncomfortable of course but she was happy!

Believe it or not only a few people saw her in the fur and are in a position to judge!

Starlight
18-11-2009, 01:44 AM
I would like to believe i always had her best interests at heart, and the very few people on RU who saw her in the flesh, i always asked their opinions on how she looked and acted, and never once was there a negative remark!

Tuckerbunnies
18-11-2009, 01:50 AM
See I don't agree that it's always worth the fight, if a bun was suffering too much even if they may recover I think (and hope) I would PTS. However at no point did I even question if Kris was doing the right thing, again despite how the pictures look Autumn was not suffering that much, uncomfortable of course but she was happy!

Believe it or not only a few people saw her in the fur and are in a position to judge!


:(

helgalush
18-11-2009, 01:53 AM
I feel its a very mean and rude thing to say to/about someone else, particularly when they are still grieving.

I am so sorry Kris - it must be a very sad day for you today. My heart goes out to you.

You only get to know your bunnies through building up a relationship with them. Then you know them inside out and really honestly I think our instincts for our bunnies is based on the quality of our relationship with them - thats when you understand them and can read how they are feeling.

Therefore for anyone else to judge you is very unfair. Its not black and white with our bunnies and any bunny that is still fighting the fight for life - to keep hoping and keep trying - deserves to be given that chance of survival. After all, that is what we would want for ourselves isnt it? The chance to recover and get better and fight horrendous diseases?

You have my sympathy Kris, I cant imagine what it was like to be in that position in the first place.

Starlight
18-11-2009, 01:55 AM
Thank you everyone for your support and kind words, i just needed to know that my gut instinct to fight was the right one.

Tuckerbunnies
18-11-2009, 01:57 AM
I feel its a very mean and rude thing to say to/about someone else, particularly when they are still grieving.

I am so sorry Kris - it must be a very sad day for you today. My heart goes out to you.

You only get to know your bunnies through building up a relationship with them. Then you know them inside out and really honestly I think our instincts for our bunnies is based on the quality of our relationship with them - thats when you understand them and can read how they are feeling.

Therefore for anyone else to judge you is very unfair. Its not black and white with our bunnies and any bunny that is still fighting the fight for life - to keep hoping and keep trying - deserves to be given that chance of survival. After all, that is what we would want for ourselves isnt it? The chance to recover and get better and fight horrendous diseases?

You have my sympathy Kris, I cant imagine what it was like to be in that position in the first place.

I totally agree with you.

raine
18-11-2009, 02:05 AM
Why do you care what one person thinks of your actions. You are are never going to get 100% support for any decision you make. You are not slow in telling anyone they are wrong, if you feel it, so stop questioning your decision. Whilst there was a chance she would pull through, you continued vet advice.

XMissySJx
18-11-2009, 02:36 AM
I think when there is any disease that is contagious a big worry is another animals, but while its a very real worry, its certainly not a reason to pts another animal. If PTS was the right option to stop it spreading, then we should all only be allowed one animal because its not right to stop an animals chances because of other pets involved.

she was in quarantine, and was looked after.

We all face decisions with our pets at some point, and we will always question whether or not we did things right or, should have done things a different way. But never in our lives does someone say "right..if you do this, this will happen" "but if you do the other option this will happen instead", we have to trust our gut instinct, and thats all we can do.

Every day i think to myself "should i have given peanut a bit longer" and it haunts me every night. Because it happened so quickly. And i cant help but think i gave up on him.And i always wonder, would he have had better care from someone else, what would someone else have done? But i dont think thats bcus i made a wrong decision, i think its because you wish there was another choice to make when youre at that crossroad.

Its the dreaded "what ifs" and "if only"'s that came after losing a loved one, and thats just because you loved her so much, not because you did anything wrong.

I always say about P.B "I pushed him when i knew he wanted to fight, and i let him go when he had had enough. I didnt give up on him, but i didnt make him suffer either" and i think this applies to you.

Sorry to bring it back to me in a way, but i just sort of get how youre feeling.

:)big hug

Starlight
18-11-2009, 05:52 AM
Why do you care what one person thinks of your actions. You are are never going to get 100% support for any decision you make. You are not slow in telling anyone they are wrong, if you feel it, so stop questioning your decision. Whilst there was a chance she would pull through, you continued vet advice.

You are completely right Raine, she is obviously a petty troublemaker.

I did the right thing for my girl, she was happy until the end, and i can't question that :D

I think the only reason it niggled at me was because my guard was down today due to her coming home.

However, i carried her treatment until i did, for a reason, as Autumn wanted to fight, she was a brave warrier, and no silly individual can pass judgement on that.

Thank you for bringing me back to my senses!


Sarah- I completely understand where you are coming from, as i had all the What ifs with Star, as i found she had passed in her sleep.

I think i have closure in that i know for a fact with Auts that i did everything i physically could, and she died in my arms.

And don't worry about bringing it back to you and PB, i accidentally kept referring to me and Star on RU when i first joined, it is only natural when going through the same kind of thing.

KarenM
18-11-2009, 07:25 AM
Kris, as long as you believe you did the right thing, then that's all that counts. And, for what it's worth, I think you did the right thing and would have done the same.

The person who made those comments has no idea of how Autumn really was and it's not appropriate to base a decision on whether to pts on just a few photos. As Lou said, they don't portray how Autumn was in herself.

Jack's-Jane
18-11-2009, 07:51 AM
The only people in a position to decide on treatment or PTS are the Vet involved in the Bun's care along with the care giver.

No-one can assess the condition or quality of life of a sick Rabbit by looking at photographs online.

xx

Charys
18-11-2009, 08:22 AM
Personally I don't believe you were 'wrong', having seen the thread and commented in your favour about Autumn's myxi. Many people will think you were right to follow your heart, based on your own understanding of Autumn and her behaviour, which did not indicate suffering. I would have done the same as you.

donnamt
18-11-2009, 09:01 AM
im sorry i didnt read the thread, i cant bear the fact RU keeps making me cry so i avoid all sad threads :oops: im really sorry she didnt make it hun, but you both tried and that wasnt wrong at all, just a bit heartbreaking when she finally let go :cry::cry:

if we all gave up at the first hurdle Pearl would be dead already, shes being such a little madam shes certainly not ready to go anywhere YET, but she will die and shell feel very very poorly right before its time :cry:. i think the fact we beat ourselves up daily on whether we are doing the right thing or not is enough torture without some idiot telling us we are doing it wrong :roll::roll:

if she wanted to fight for her life then how could it of been the wrong decision? you gave her a chance which she will of loved you all the more for xxxx

*Spider*
18-11-2009, 09:34 AM
That's horrid.

I saw Autumn in the fur and she did bounce around like a normal bunny, flopping out and causing mischief.

I take it the person who made this comment does not vaccinate their rabbits as it's not "worth" the fight.. :roll:

nursecroft
18-11-2009, 09:36 AM
Haveing read the other thread, I don't think it was fair to really bring it onto here.

Not everyone is misinformed on there, please do not try and make out everyone is treatign there rabbit badly :roll:

Yes I agree she may of not put it correctly, but as far as I'm aware even some other people on here at first before you mentioned worried about your quarantining.

I'm sorry for what happened to Autumn but Ive seen you give even worse then that too

Im glad she did, its bad enough losing a bun without people judging you and making you doubt your actions as if we all dont go through how we manage things with our animals in our head after enough, that comment was just plain nasty on the other forum. :?

She is looking for support after a horrendously upsetting time.

nursecroft
18-11-2009, 09:37 AM
That's horrid.

I saw Autumn in the fur and she did bounce around like a normal bunny, flopping out and causing mischief.

I take it the person who made this comment does not vaccinate their rabbits as it's not "worth" the fight.. :roll:

Shes in no position to judge having read some posts :roll: certainly not a person i would respect the opinion of anyway!

lorri
18-11-2009, 09:45 AM
Quaratine is essential to all birds and animals. you had done right to speak up.

I would do the same if I was in your shoes.

Angie65
18-11-2009, 10:15 AM
I would not have had Alistair pts in the same way I wouldn't have my sister pts. I don't care about all this "suffering" :censored:. He was acting like a normal bun up to two hours before the end. He died with his partner in his own home - the first one he had ever been happy in. That meant more to me,knowing that, than rushing him to the vets could ever do.

My Suki is still fighting myxi - & very well. Should I have had her pts just cos she had a rough couple of weeks, & lost her boyfriend? She'll get through it, & be happy again.

I have a serious grieving bun at the minute - Missy lost her partner a week & half ago. She's being syringe fed & is in more pain than Alistair was, cos there's no pain killers that can fix this. That's suffering. Should I have her pts??:evil::roll:

You did what was right for your bun

bunlover
18-11-2009, 10:43 AM
To fight with Autumn right until the end?

Just i believe i did the right thing but i have just been jumped on by a member on another forum who claims she should have been "destroyed"

It was over the subject of quarantine when i was explaining to a member why she should do it before bonding when this member said

"thats coming from someone who had a rabbit with myxi that could have wiped out her own and every rescue rabbit in her care
now personally i think that is the worst risk you could ever put your rabbits through that was not worth a risk"

And who says

"you decided to let your poor rabbit suffer a long painful death at the risk of your own and any in the rescue part of things"


I only recieved my darling back this afternoon and this is the last thing i needed.

no you absolutly did the right thing. many of us had rabbits who survived myxi and it seemed autumn was getting better....
also i have to say that it shows a complete lack of understanding on how myxi is transmitted by the poster as myxi is transmitted by biting insects so it is no greater risk having a myxi bun in your care as having any other bun i pity the poor bun that they refuse to help in its time of need. the same "destroy " policy could be adopted to cover snuffles, ec, and many other illnesses but we dont we help those bunnys we know if you felt her suffering was too much you would have had her pts ignore these idiots

LurcherGirl
18-11-2009, 11:13 AM
It's not up to anyone else to judge how long you want to fight for and with your animals!

I too nursed a rabbit through myxi with my other rabbits around (not in the same room, but in the same house), though unfortunately Star didn't make it in the end. But right up to the last few hours she was fighting and showed no signs at all of wanting to give up. When however it became clear she wasn't going to make it and she gave up, we called the vet for an appointment to have her put to sleep that day... a few minutes before setting off to the vet's, she slipped away on her own in my arms! She was then ready to go!

So don't let anyone else tell you what you should or shouldn't have done. It was your decision and if you are happy with it and know that your rabbit was fine with it too, that's all that counts.

Vera

youngbunny2
18-11-2009, 11:21 AM
because of you kris, I tried to save my bun by treating her like you did autumn, sadly She let me know the day she had given up her fight so I decided to end her suffering.If i am 100% honest with you then I think it is not that people think you did wrong it is that they were not as brave as you for fighting for so long.It is very scary to be in control of a very sick bun and deciding what is best,I imagine many people would be too scared to do it and pts first. xx

Angie65
18-11-2009, 11:23 AM
because of you kris, I tried to save my bun by treating her like you did autumn, sadly She let me know the day she had given up her fight so I decided to end her suffering.If i am 100% honest with you then I think it is not that people think you did wrong it is that they were not as brave as you for fighting for so long.It is very scary to be in control of a very sick bun and deciding what is best,I imagine many people would be too scared to do it and pts first. xx

That is exactly what happened when my Spice got myxi in June. She was in a bad way, but I was as scared for my other buns getting it, as I was for her. I had her pts immediately - but 2 of my other buns got it over 2 months later.

giantbunnymummy
18-11-2009, 12:13 PM
You did your very best for Autumn and made the decisions that were most appropriate at the time. It's tragic she didn't make it after both of you fought so hard to beat her illness :( but the fact that you gave her a chance to fight it and tried so hard to help her recover should be applauded and not criticised.

SarahP
18-11-2009, 12:26 PM
The only people in a position to decide on treatment or PTS are the Vet involved in the Bun's care along with the care giver.

No-one can assess the condition or quality of life of a sick Rabbit by looking at photographs online.

I totally agree with this.

parsnipbun
18-11-2009, 12:38 PM
That was such an awful thing for them to say...they must be very bitter.

Of course you were right to give her a chance, and it really looked as though she was going to make it, just as Viola Rose did. Should she have been 'destroyed' too?

I was just gong to say that!! It seems a bit cruel to remind you of others that have made it through - but I can only say that you should tell the person that is critisising you of all the happy healthy buns that are still with us because their owners did not destroy then at the first sign of myxi. I would be devastated if I had had Viola Rose put down (and some did suggest I do so) and then somehow had been able to have a vision of what actually did happen (ie she survived). (sorry of thats a bit garbled ).

You did a wonderful job with Autumn and it was just very very unlucky that the myxi took an unusual course and affected her in a way you would not be able to anticipate.

Tina D
18-11-2009, 12:58 PM
like others have said, only you know Autumn so it is not up to anyone else to tell you that you were right or wrong. I often say that you will know the time to pts when you look in your animal's eyes and they have given up. i don't think Autumn was there and i think that if it hadn't been for the abecess on her brain, it looked like you were starting to win the fight.

Please don't let these people spoil your memories of Autumn, just know that you loved her and did your very best for her (probably much more than others would have done)

BTW: Kris my vet nurse got a rabbit from you a couple of months ago. I think the rabbit was called parsley? The vet nurse is called Janice. I told her the sad news about Autumn and she said to tell you that she was sorry :( She said that she knew that you loved Autumn and was very proud of her and must be heartbroken.

Bungle bunny
18-11-2009, 04:52 PM
Ignore hurtful ignorant comments like that. your love made you fight to the bitter end. You should be commended.


I totally agree with all the comments on here so far, this one really sums it up.

I am just glad that I found this forum first and not the 'other' one. We are here to for help, support and guidance where needed and so far, that is exactly what I have seen and experienced on this site.

No one, who really loves their pet or their child would give up on them while there is the slightest hope that they can pull through

raine
18-11-2009, 05:04 PM
I must admit to googling what was said to have a look at the other forum. I didn't manage to find it, but trawled quite a few forums and I did find someone who I thought had disappeared. Disappointed she hasn't and noted she was giving her "sound" breeding advice to a child:roll: I love RU:love::love:

DemiS
18-11-2009, 05:55 PM
I don't really see how fighting till the end and quarentine comments are linked :?

clutterydrawer
18-11-2009, 07:00 PM
Situations like this are never clear cut, there are few definite rights and wrongs. As long as you did what you felt was best for autumn and for your other buns, rather than what was best for you, then no one could ask more of you.


What IS definitely wrong is for the person you refer to in your first post to have said such a nasty, insensitive thing to someone who is grieving over the loss of a beloved companion. Try to put them out of your mind, they're not worth the effort of worrying over.

Charys
18-11-2009, 07:41 PM
Situations like this are never clear cut,

True words !...if some people believe that they are, then they are the truly ignorant ones.

Pinkchi
18-11-2009, 08:04 PM
Starlight this is highly inappropriate. Whats been said on another forum has been said. Perhaps Ann could have worded it slightly different, but whats done is done. You did all you could for Autumn and I respect the choice you made to give her a chance. I think Autumn herself was pretty out of context to the original post made, members were only thinking about the rest of your buns and worried about your quarrantine in case the myxi could have spread. You also never stated how you do your quarrantine which may have led to a bit of confusion.

Breeders and rescues will always have separate opinions and ways of doing things.

All due respect you need to get off your high horse starlight and treat people as equals. If you cannot be sival with others opinions than I suggest you pick a forum and stick to it and stop dragging useless, pointless arguements from one to the other

Azraelm
18-11-2009, 08:36 PM
Starlight this is highly inappropriate. Whats been said on another forum has been said. Perhaps Ann could have worded it slightly different, but whats done is done. You did all you could for Autumn and I respect the choice you made to give her a chance. I think Autumn herself was pretty out of context to the original post made, members were only thinking about the rest of your buns and worried about your quarrantine in case the myxi could have spread. You also never stated how you do your quarrantine which may have led to a bit of confusion.

Breeders and rescues will always have separate opinions and ways of doing things.

All due respect you need to get off your high horse starlight and treat people as equals. If you cannot be sival with others opinions than I suggest you pick a forum and stick to it and stop dragging useless, pointless arguements from one to the other

Is this not what you are doing?

This thread will have to be locked if it continues the way it is going.

Santa
18-11-2009, 08:49 PM
How very distressing on the day you got her ashes back :(

The problem as I see it is there are two different issues that have got combined here - to what degree you should fight with an ill rabbit is one issue and what is appropriate quarantine (including the vaccination status of other rabbits and rabbits in/out during and after active infection periods) is another.

On the second question, you already know my opinion on that. However on the first question, then no I don't think you were wrong to fight with her - Lou told me that every time she saw her she was always happy and bouncy and the photos looked much worse than the reality. What happened to Autumn at the end was distressing but unpredictable because she was vaccinated and recovering. You weren't trying to treat an unvaccinated rabbit, you were treating a vaccinated rabbit with a nodular form of the disease (albeit quite a severe case) and that is an entirely different kettle of fish to pressing on with trying to help an unvaccinated bun.

lilbun
18-11-2009, 10:42 PM
Starlight this is highly inappropriate. Whats been said on another forum has been said. Perhaps Ann could have worded it slightly different, but whats done is done. You did all you could for Autumn and I respect the choice you made to give her a chance. I think Autumn herself was pretty out of context to the original post made, members were only thinking about the rest of your buns and worried about your quarrantine in case the myxi could have spread. You also never stated how you do your quarrantine which may have led to a bit of confusion.

Breeders and rescues will always have separate opinions and ways of doing things.

All due respect you need to get off your high horse starlight and treat people as equals. If you cannot be sival with others opinions than I suggest you pick a forum and stick to it and stop dragging useless, pointless arguements from one to the other

A most UNCIVIL post, In my opinion.
May I ask which forum you are going to choose? :?

*Spider*
18-11-2009, 10:47 PM
A most UNCIVIL post, In my opinion.
May I ask which forum you are going to choose? :?

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

nursecroft
18-11-2009, 10:48 PM
Starlight this is highly inappropriate. Whats been said on another forum has been said. Perhaps Ann could have worded it slightly different, but whats done is done. You did all you could for Autumn and I respect the choice you made to give her a chance. I think Autumn herself was pretty out of context to the original post made, members were only thinking about the rest of your buns and worried about your quarrantine in case the myxi could have spread. You also never stated how you do your quarrantine which may have led to a bit of confusion.

Breeders and rescues will always have separate opinions and ways of doing things.

All due respect you need to get off your high horse starlight and treat people as equals. If you cannot be sival with others opinions than I suggest you pick a forum and stick to it and stop dragging useless, pointless arguements from one to the other


I am really biting my lip here :censored:..... Maybe the person in question should worry more about the welfare of her own buns. Starlight is upset and has every right to post what she wants here.

What a nasty post. :evil:

caralion
18-11-2009, 11:00 PM
I have every admiration for Kris - It was people like her that gave me the strength to fight for Diesel who was unvacinated and had 5 vets who wanted to pts straight away - however with love care and support from everyone here she's been discharged and very much alive. Kris you don't have live with what ifs you where amazing you should be proud of your decission and autumn knew she was loved - Don't ever doubt yourself Well done for every thing you did for your little girl :wave:
We had a friend who thought even trying with Diesel was wring gave my 15 year old lad a real ear bashing as she has Rabbits and said it was wrong - but i'm so glad we tried. It was hard for you kris but if she'd made it you'd be so proud hold on to the thought you did your absolute best.
Big hugs xx

Candiflare
18-11-2009, 11:02 PM
The person on the other forum must be truly insane to think that you sat back and watched your rabbit suffer unbearably instead of putting her to sleep. You and everyone else on here know the reasons you carried on treating Autumn and they were valid and motivated from love and the belief that she could get better.

Everybody always likes to have an opinion and they sometimes don't care what opinion it is as long as they can feel powerful/get attention. This person is obviously just doing this and you'd do best to ignore them.

kaths101
18-11-2009, 11:07 PM
Grrr things like this just want to make me :censored::cry::censored:

yes everyone has their own opinions but at times like this things like that dont need to be said!

What a shame that a woman who tries to HELP people gets it all thrown back in her face... especially when she is feeling understandably fragile at the moment...

Chin up hun xxxx

Rykat
19-11-2009, 12:22 AM
You most certainly were not wrong. God forbid I'm ever in the same situation but I know I would do everything I could.

You knew her best, not some ignorant person who would probably "destroy" any animal of theirs at the slightest thing.

Ignore them hun x

kayj
19-11-2009, 12:42 AM
Everybody has their own opinions on what they would do but as long as you know and feel what you did for Autumn was right then don't let others get to you.
Alot of people voice opinions but haven't actually been in the situation so don't worry about it

Starlight
19-11-2009, 02:23 AM
Starlight this is highly inappropriate. Whats been said on another forum has been said. Perhaps Ann could have worded it slightly different, but whats done is done. You did all you could for Autumn and I respect the choice you made to give her a chance. I think Autumn herself was pretty out of context to the original post made, members were only thinking about the rest of your buns and worried about your quarrantine in case the myxi could have spread. You also never stated how you do your quarrantine which may have led to a bit of confusion.

Breeders and rescues will always have separate opinions and ways of doing things.

All due respect you need to get off your high horse starlight and treat people as equals. If you cannot be sival with others opinions than I suggest you pick a forum and stick to it and stop dragging useless, pointless arguements from one to the other

With all due respect, i am going to push you off your "high horse" with this:

Reworded slightly differently? With all the rolly eyed faces on her post, i know she was out for a personal attack bearing in mind mxyi is different to routinely quarantining a new bun. I offered advice on quarantining and she then started on her "high horse" though i see you aren't asking her to get down!


members were only thinking about the rest of your buns and worried about your quarrantine in case the myxi could have spread.

The thread was not about me, about my situation, or about my rabbits, therefore was irrelevant to the topic, and was a sweeping unprovoked attack regardless of wording.

If people wanted to know about my quarantine, pm me and ask, or start a thread asking me. Do not jump on me.

I am sorry but where does rescue V breeder come into this? All my views are made as an individual unless stated. Just because i run a rescue does not mean my posts should be looked differently upon to someone with just their own pets.


If you cannot be sival with others opinions than I suggest you pick a forum and stick to it and stop dragging useless, pointless arguements from one to the other

I believe none of your post has been cival, your post is mainly biased so assume you have picked a forum. Useless pointless arguments? I wanted unbiased opinions on what i did. If it was pointless, what has been the point in your reply?

I have never treated anyone on a forum as anything other than equal until something as such happens.

Inappropriate would be if i named and shamed both member and forum, neither of which i have done.

BUT, thank you for respecting my decision with Autumn, and seeing that i did everything physically possible to help her.

raine
19-11-2009, 11:52 AM
I have had a look at the thread being discussed and I find it really comical that BRC recommendations for myxi is being quoted by a breeder to question how a myxi case was handled at a rescue, as if the BRC is the higher authority on rabbit care. Of course, all members of the BRC are adhering to a six month rule:roll: Whilst looking at the other forum I located someone who I had previously encountered on here before she left. She too is a breeder, who is a member of the BRC and suffered a myxi outbreak. I had to rescue some bunnies from her because she carried on as normal, advertising bunnies for sale and not vaccinating her bunnies during the outbreak. Evidently the BRC recommendations are not being followed by its members.

I am not a member of the BRC and, whilst it allows backyard breeders to become members simply by filling in a form, I never will. All Starlights bunnies are vaccinated and she adhered to her vets recommendations regarding quarantine and care.

helgalush
19-11-2009, 04:10 PM
I dont think it is inappropriate to come on to a forum to say you are upset with how someone has reacted to you on another forum and to seek reassurance.

Kris wasnt out to 'name and shame' but rather to seek reassurance about something that was clearly emotive and upsetting. I'd do exactly the same. I havent seen this other forum and have no intention of trying to find out more, as that is not the point. The point is, Kris was upset by what was said and came back to a forum where she clearly feels more respected.

Kris, I am glad you feel much stronger in yourself and sure of your decisions and why you made them. You are a very courageous woman in my opinion.
Autumn was lucky you cared so much and so intensively for her.

Sky-O
19-11-2009, 04:24 PM
I personally think no one else is qualified to make a judgement on you and what you did. The only people qualified are you and your vet.

If you feel that you followed your gut instinct on what was best for her then that's the important thing. No one can do more than that. I saw a few times when you questioned yourself, and that is exactly how you work out what is best; by questioning, and you did just the right thing by asking yourself.

If you feel maybe you didn't do the best thing for her, then again, that's not something anyone else should pass judgement on (including yourself), that is just something you should learn from.

However, it sounds like all the way through you did what you thought was best for her (from having read your thread about her, and this thread), and that's all anyone can do.

What more can you do other than do what you think is best for her?

Benjamin09
19-11-2009, 10:37 PM
To answer your question, I dont think you were wrong. If it was any other member of your family you'd do the same. You didnt just give up on her because of what she had and you did all you could to make it as comfortable and promising as you could do. That really does show how much you do care, and I wish all rabbit owners cared that much!

But on another note, of course I'm sorry about the loss of your bun but its not very fair slagging off another forum or other people. To me, forums are for help and fun but *I* do feel the way you started this thread was purely to get back at that person behind their back - not for the answer to your question. Yes, they were in the wrong for the comments they made which were obviously inappropriate - but you were in the wrong for going behind their back about them and their forum! if you don't like their forum, please just leave it. just dont go bitching about it and then go back and act like normal. I get really fed up of posting on forums because of this - I just like looking for advice but constantly come across many threads where people are argueing about different sets of opinions and forget what the thread was originally about - so not helping the person asking which really is a shame.

Starlight
19-11-2009, 11:15 PM
Benjamin, i don't believe i was slagging anyone or anything off, as i have not named the person, the forum or anything. The forum in question knows of this thread.

Alison237
20-11-2009, 01:48 AM
Kris you are having a really bad time with this and I am so sorry for you.

All of this has got way out of hand and the main issue is that you are a mummy that has lost her baby bun.

I saw Autumn (all be it briefly) in the vet's less than a week before she died and apart from the obvious signs, I thought that she looked in good spirits, I thought she looked happy and contented in your arms and I was certain that she was going to pull through.

On that day there is no way I would have considered putting your darling little girl to sleep. You did the right thing and I say that without question, she deserved the right to fight and you gave her that.

I can imagine you can't even think straight, I could see how exhausted you were and your brain must be spinning, it is not really fair that anyone should say nasty things to you at a time like this, even if they believe them to be true.

As for the quarantine issues, I really don't see the point of discussing it any further, all of your bunnies are fine, all of your rescue bunnies are fine and if they were going to have 'caught' it from Autumn, they would have done so by now, so forget what anyone is saying, I don't see why some people are dwelling on what might have happened, it didn't, the end.

You need to get on with your grieving now hun, give your other rabbits a nose rub and forget about this nonsense.

Thinking of you. xx

sidereus7
20-11-2009, 05:19 AM
Every bunny is different. Every case of myxi is different. I have definitely learned that much from these forums.

You knew your bunny better than any of us, and you and your vet came to understand this particular case of myxi. You made what you thought were the best decisions for Autumn at every step of the way.

How can you ask anymore from yourself than the best?

You're a fantastic bunny mom. Period. If you're always doing what you think is best and you continue to learn and grow as a bunny owner, I don't think anyone can question your judgment.