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Kidney failure...when to PTS?

abbymarysmokey

Wise Old Thumper
My Ebony has recently been diagnosed with kidney failure. She is still eating reasonably well (especially leafy greens and 'wild' food from my garden) but is very skinny. She tends to sit in her cat igloo most of the time, but is still able to hop to her litter tray to toilet. I presume she must have some level of discomfort because she doesn't lay flat out any more, but she doesn't seem moribund or had other signs of pain such as teeth grinding.

So...When do I have her PTS?
 
I've only had experience of renal failure in dogs but if it's any help, you'll KNOW when the time is right. All the time you think they are still enjoying life, I'd say keep them going. When they find eating difficult, are very inactive and the spark has gone from their eyes, it's time to say goodbye. So sorry to learn that you're having to go through this.
 
When our boy had kidney failure we pts when his head was permanently in the water bowl and his appertite was significantly reduced. He also had major dental problems.

We have a lot of bunnies here that do not lie down or ever flop, if we used that as an indicator to pts we wouldn't have many buns left :?

I am sure Ebony will let you know when the time is right :)
 
Is she on any palliative treatment ?

She's on 0.4mls metacam once a day, and has a injection of a different painkiller every couple of days...I can't remember the name, but I think it's an opiate (it's one that doesn't damage the kidneys like metacam does).

Other than that , the vet says there isn't much can be done other than to keep tempting her to eat with treats and other goodies.
 
All my Buns in renal failure have benefitted from an anabolic steroid injection and a multivitamin injection.
None ever had a NSAID though :?
They also received SQ fluids in their final weeks. Their appetites were much better on this regime and they generally seemed to 'feel' better :)
 
Can't really advise about a rabbit, but when our cat Chokki had kidney failure, she went off her food and we had her dripped for 48 hrs. Sometimes this can perk them up for quite a while. She was fine for a week and then went off her food again, at that point we decided PTS was the best option. She was on a special diet, low in phosphates, and fortekor. I now have 2 other suffering from this, I will use the same theory for them- probably try a drip once and the next time they go off their food PTS.
Personally, if they have something terminal, I usually call it a day when they stop eating, as long as they are in no pain.
 
All my Buns in renal failure have benefitted from an anabolic steroid injection and a multivitamin injection.
None ever had a NSAID though :?
They also received SQ fluids in their final weeks. Their appetites were much better on this regime and they generally seemed to 'feel' better :)

I am planning to start my renal cats on B12 injections, apparently it is the vitamin most lost in urine- renal animals pee a lot- and this makes them anaemic. I also don't undersytand the use of metacam on a renal animal.
 
All my Buns in renal failure have benefitted from an anabolic steroid injection and a multivitamin injection.
None ever had a NSAID though :?

Thanks for that info Jane, I'll discuss the steroids and multivitamins with my vet.

The Metacam was prescribed for her arthritis. I know that it can affect the kidneys, but I'd rather she went quicker and free of pain at this stage.
 
Thanks for that info Jane, I'll discuss the steroids and multivitamins with my vet.

The Metacam was prescribed for her arthritis. I know that it can affect the kidneys, but I'd rather she went quicker and free of pain at this stage.

I agree :)

Maybe doing SQs sooner rather than later would be a good idea.
Some acupuncture may enable you to reduce the Metacam dose too.
That's what we did for Bernie :)
 
Maybe doing SQs sooner rather than later would be a good idea.
Some acupuncture may enable you to reduce the Metacam dose too.
That's what we did for Bernie :)

Yep, meant to say in my previous post that I'd speak to the vet about the sub q fluids too :)

We did discuss acupuncture for the arthritis, but I'm not sure whether she'd just get upset at being carried about and having needles stuck in her?
 
Yep, meant to say in my previous post that I'd speak to the vet about the sub q fluids too :)

We did discuss acupuncture for the arthritis, but I'm not sure whether she'd just get upset at being carried about and having needles stuck in her?

I think everyBun is different. Bernie just fell asleep in my arms whilst having her acupuncture. It really relaxed her and she seemed to get so much benefit from it.

But I know some of my Buns would find all the hands on attention way too stressful. I am sure you'll do what's best for her :)
 
Yep, meant to say in my previous post that I'd speak to the vet about the sub q fluids too :)

We did discuss acupuncture for the arthritis, but I'm not sure whether she'd just get upset at being carried about and having needles stuck in her?

Some bunnies tolerate acupuncture well, CoCo didn't. The vet used laser therapy instead, which works on the same principles, and she loved it! Used to practically go to sleep and I would see significant improvement afterwards. Just an alternative idea....
 
The Metacam was prescribed for her arthritis. I know that it can affect the kidneys, but I'd rather she went quicker and free of pain at this stage.

I quite agree, our kidney failure boy was on metacam too, but this was initially for tooth root problems. He also had SQ fluids, but eventually was still dehydrated even with them and constant drinking :(

Timmy is still on metacam for his arthritis and broken bones despite his liver problems. Infact we have had to increase the dose, we know that may shorten his life span as far as his liver is concerned but we would rather he had a shorted more comfortable life than let him struggle on with out any pain relief :)
 
hi abbymarysmokey - so very, very sorry to hear about Ebony's kidney failure..:cry: But it sounds like you are doing absolutely everything within your abilities to make sure she is comfortable and with a decent quality of life..

I don't have any experience of bunnies with renal failure, but have had to have a much loved bun PTS, and I agree with the earlier sentiment that you just KNOW when the time is right... :?

Your description of Ebony sounds very similar to the state I am currently finding my 10 year old bunny Binks. Could you tell me a little more about Ebony?
When and how did the vet test for kidney failure?
Was Ebony peeing and drinking water excessively?
Did Ebony have dental problems with regular GA and metacam treatments?
Do you know if semi-regular doses of metacam can result in kidney failure, or merely exacerbate exisiting kidney problems?

Gosh... sorry for the 20 questions to your 1 question :oops:
but I'd really welcome any insights from your experience...

Thanks!
 
The Metacam was prescribed for her arthritis. I know that it can affect the kidneys, but I'd rather she went quicker and free of pain at this stage.

OK, I understand now.
We are having the same dilema with Spice, one of our renal cats, we are trying acupuncture first before going for metacam, although the vet has suggested we can try tramadol, before the metacam. Hope she stays well and pain free.
 
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