Difficulty swallowing and splayed front paws? - RIP Mr Binks

Hi all,:wave:

It's been a while since I last posted...

But I am in need of any advice and/or good vibes! My old Mr Binks isn't doing so well at the minute... He is fast heading towards 10 years of age, so I guess I could expect things not to be 100% but I am getting really worried now..

Binks has been a problem dental bun his entire life having initially been brought up on a diet of pellets and regular freshies. Over the years he has lost the majority of his teeth and now we have taken to softening his pellets for him to be able to eat them..

He had a dental first week of August and recently, we noticed that he was eating less and definitely started to lose weight... We took him in to the vet again and pointed out there was a bump in the jaw under the eye. The vet has been treating Binks for years. We decided to do another dental (despite the anaesthetic risk) and Binks is now on a course of Baytril and Metacam.

He is definitely not picking up his eating as he should, and then yesterday, I noticed something particularly strange. He seems to be having difficulty swallowing? He sort of winces and slightly shifts back onto his thumpers (with an occassional, hardly audible grunt or expulsion of air) when he swallows. :?

At roughly the same time, he has also developed over the last few weeks a very lax way of sitting... He used to be very prim our Mr Binks, sitting all proper with his front paws together, but now they are splayed wide open to the sides of his dewlap even when he is eating. He sort of slides into that position as opposed to actively moving into that position because his dewlap is in the way (if that makes sense?).:?

And just to top it all off, the swelling I noticed in the top jaw under the eye hasn't gone away and I think his eye is slighly weeping...

He is violently opposed to taking his meds at the moment. For an old bunny that is losing weight, he has an awful lot of energy to balk away from the syringes. I am really loathe to poke and prod him unneccessarily but want to give him every chance at health.

Do these symptoms sound similar to anyone? I ask because I posted on here once when my bunnies developed lame front paws and it was instantly picked up as a reaction to the VHD jab, and I also got immediate feedback on Poppy's possible EC when she started developing hind leg paralysis. So, a veritable source of information here.

I will definitely will go to the vet, but I fear if I am unclear, he won't be much clearer what it could be either, so just running it by the Forum's collective expertise first...

Many thanks!

Lee, xx

The bump under the eye sounds like a periapical abcess on a tooth root or maybe even a retrobulbar abcess behind the eye? especially considering his dental history.
His postural issues could be due to age related spinal issues such as arthritis, and the swallowing could be due to simply having a very sore mouth? (But i'm also wondering if the dysphagia and mobility issues are neurological due to this 'possible' abcess or lesion which 'may' be pressing on a certain part of his brain?? Although I realise that does sound terrifying and I have NO idea if this is possible in terms of where the motor control areas/nerves lie for swallowing etc in rabbit brains - rabbits are very different to us in many ways, and so i'm just guessing here.)

If he wasn't so old I would say Xray definitely to see what this lump is and where it is lying and/or pressing on - the weeping eye if on the same side does sound related.

I'm sorry I have no idea of what is acceptable in terms of further investigations with such an old bunny. But I do wish him and you well and hope you find some answers soon. What a wonderful age he has reached - you have done a marvellous job with him.

Lots and lots of vibes for Mr Binks x

ETA I wonder if he is just changing his posture in order to breathe or eat with less discomfort if the back of his mouth is sore? or if his breathing is restricted in some way?

Oh prettylupin, thank you so much for the reply!

I think an x-ray would definitely be in order... But I just get so worried about how much I should put such old bunny through still if the results call for more surgery etc etc. Tough question and no idea how to know when enough is enough. When I am doing it more for my sake (i.e. I don't want to let him go) than I am for his sake..

My poor Mr Binks....

podlet said:

My poor Mr Binks....

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He has clearly had a lovely life with you though and is so very well loved by the sounds of things. I think whatever decision you make will be the right one. I'm sorry you are having to face these decisions now, eventually we all get old, but it is so very sad when our bunny friends reach this age. Tons of vibes x

Are you happy with your vet and their treatment of Mr Binks? If not you could always ask for a second opinion from a specialist or even ask them to make some enquiries without you having to take him anywhere else. I suppose it is balancing up further travel, tests, stress etc. Perhaps if your vet feels he can undergo another GA again then some Xrays would be a good idea so you can know what you are dealing with, if it is very serious then they could perhaps let him go whilst still under the anaesthetic which might be make you feel more comfortable as he wouldn't know a thing then.

I am largely happy with the treatment, yes.

He certainly knows more than many I assume (having read some of the horror stories on here!) and our buns always recover very well after any anaesthetics (better than with the previous vet!)..

It's just that I think a lot of it is a process of elimination, and I would love to get to the easiest quickest solution as possible.

Mr Binks has only had a table spoon of pellets for breakfast, half a grape and two thin strips of cut fresh greens today.... He isn't crouching and looking uncomfortable, but I am sure he can't be feeling too good....

I would hate to have to begin syringe feeding him.

oh gosh... I have been researching online all day to try find something that might explain what's happening with Binks...

I stumbled on an article about mold and mycotoxins - http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/myco.html

I have an awful, awful fear that it might be this and that I may have caused it.... :shock: It doesn't account for the weeping eye, but some of the other symptoms.

We soften Binks pellets with water and lay them out flat on a plate for him...
But if he hasn't finished at breakfast time, we put them back down at dinner... Maybe molds have microscopically started developing because the pellets were wet?

Definitely going to bring this up with the vet too...

podlet said:

oh gosh... I have been researching online all day to try find something that might explain what's happening with Binks...

I stumbled on an article about mold and mycotoxins - http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/myco.html

I have an awful, awful fear that it might be this and that I may have caused it.... :shock: It doesn't account for the weeping eye, but some of the other symptoms.

We soften Binks pellets with water and lay them out flat on a plate for him...
But if he hasn't finished at breakfast time, we put them back down at dinner... Maybe molds have microscopically started developing because the pellets were wet?

Definitely going to bring this up with the vet too...

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Hi there. I think that prettylupin's suggestions are much more likely than mycotoxins or aspergillosis. I really don't think that there could be any significant mould growth over such a short period of time!
The hay grown & packed commercially is usually kiln dried to a frazzle, which stops mould growth in the bag.
Finally my bun used to be on grass. He wouldn't touch the slightest bit of dying grass, which sometimes has early "rust" or mould growth on it in Autumn.

Hi Lee - the eating thing sounds all too familiar, Charlie was the same as he approached 10 his eating became a constant trauma to us. We never syringe fed him but I spent many hours every evening encouraging him to eat and basically hand feeding him (we never syringe fed him).

As for Binks lump, does it move? If it doens't move and is rock hard then its likely to be an abcess. I know Binks was on septrin for ages, is he still on it? - if so this kept Charlies jaw abcess at bay for 18 months (it grew very very slightly but beings as it didn't bother him we just kept going with the septrin).

Regarding his legs and the swallowing - I'm wondering if these are related - is he pushing his legs out because his neck/chest is hurting. How is his breathing? Have you felt around his neck to see if there are any lumps?

The only other thing I thought about with his throat - if he's just been under anaesthetic might they have made his throat sore when intrubating him? Although this wouldn't explain his standing.

I hope he's ok, as you know Binks has a special place in mine and Steve's heart. I was sorting photos out the other day and found some lovely ones of Binks, Poppy and Zoot from when they stayed with us. Beautiful little Poppy.

Btw, as for trusting our vet, I do so completely and utterly - that goes for both J or M. In the past J came to the end of his knowledge with Fern and her spongey bone problems, and he contacted a specialist for us to visit. I trust they will suggest a second opinion if they are worried. Coincidentally Lavender went to see Matt today, she's done something very nasty to one of her toes - looks like it'll be amputated tomorrow.

Sending hugs to you and Cord, and snuggles to the fluffies.

thumps_ said:

Hi there. I think that prettylupin's suggestions are much more likely than mycotoxins or aspergillosis.

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Our vet tends to agree with you both.... me just being paranoid and desperately searching for an answer so we can treat it... :shock:

BevBunny said:

Hi Lee - the eating thing sounds all too familiar, Charlie was the same as he approached 10 his eating became a constant trauma to us.

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And what a trauma this eating thing has been! I have been signed off work (for other reasons) which has at least given me the 2-3 hours I need twice a day to try get a smidgen of food into Mr Binks....

BevBunny said:

As for Binks lump, does it move? If it doens't move and is rock hard then its likely to be an abcess.

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Binks has never been on long-term septrin nor have Matt and John suggested it - maybe it wasn't bad enough to risk any possible side effects?

After the last dental, Matt wasn't around for a proper debrief, but we were given a course of baytril and metacam. We know that Mr Binks has really bad dental problems, but when I saw Matt today, he immediately started the conversation by saying he couldn't promise a happy outcome here bearing in mind his age, the recent anaesthetics, his declining weight and stress to the body...

We have had some bloods taken today for tests and he has stayed at the vets so that he can get hourly syringe feeding, regular pain relief and 4 hourly injections... :?

BevBunny said:

Regarding his legs and the swallowing - I'm wondering if these are related - is he pushing his legs out because his neck/chest is hurting. How is his breathing? Have you felt around his neck to see if there are any lumps?

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That's a good question... It's never looked like his neck/chest has been hurting.. His breathing doesn't seem to have changed from the ordinary, and I havent found any other lumps aside from those on his jaw....

Matt said that there is no two ways about it and that Mr Binks has osteomyelitis in his jaw.. He also said that the one tooth was soo rotten, it fell out of its socket, and he said the bottom right jaw is such a mess they can hardly differentiate the teeth and just filed them all down to gum level..

BevBunny said:

The only other thing I thought about with his throat - if he's just been under anaesthetic might they have made his throat sore when intrubating him? Although this wouldn't explain his standing.

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I thought about this one at least, and it wouldn't explain why he was eating semi-alright immediately post the anaesthetic and for the following 2 weeks and now made such a rapid turn for the worst..

Matt said he wouldn't be giving Mr Binks any more abx as that can upset the tummy and he has very runny poos at the moment from the very little food we managed to syringe him last night in desparation.

I also gave Mr Binks another squirt of food at the vets so that Matt could see the wincing/pulling back motion Mr Binks does when he swallows...

He did say after seeing that, that he did have a bunny once with a boil or something at the back of the throat which made it difficult to swallow and the problem cleared up once it was lanced under general anaesthetic. Sadly though, Binks is in no way close to being a candidate for anaesthetic now, so we are just trying to get some food into him and build some strength....

I am just so wary of forcing things though so that Binks' last days/hours are distressed.....

BevBunny said:

I hope he's ok, as you know Binks has a special place in mine and Steve's heart. I was sorting photos out the other day and found some lovely ones of Binks, Poppy and Zoot from when they stayed with us. Beautiful little Poppy.

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On a slightly more cheery note (and goodness could I do with cheery at the moment), you should really come visit us and the buns sooooonly! You still haven't met Mia nor Blaise....

BevBunny said:

Btw, as for trusting our vet, I do so completely and utterly - that goes for both J or M.

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They have indeed been wonderful to us too! John was soooo empathetic and supportive when we had to have Poppy PTS.. We even got a card of condolensces...

BevBunny said:

Sending hugs to you and Cord, and snuggles to the fluffies.

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Thanks Bev.... feeling really heavy hearted today...

I'm sorry news wasn't more positive for Mr Binks. Hoping that with lots of tlc and food in his tummy he will be feeling better soon. Thinking of you x

oh hoping so too..... :?

thanks so much prettylupin.. x

I'm really sorry to hear about Mr. Binks problems.
I'm so glad that you have good vets whom you can trust to advise you soundly.
Here's hoping that they can make him more comfortable over the w/e & he picks up.

[I really like the quote in your siggy. It gives a lot of food for thought]

Thinking of you all Judy & Thumper.

thumps_ said:

[I really like the quote in your siggy. It gives a lot of food for thought]

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I've only just noticed it! He is one of my favourite authors! :wave:

Thanks Judy and prettylupin... sadly though, this story hasn't ended well.....

It's taken me 24 hours just to be able to get back to computer and even type this message....

But Mr Binks was in soo much pain and it was all getting rather undignified that we couldn't begin to consider another 24 hours of runny poos, no food intake, syringe feeding, weepy eyes, grinding teeth, splayed paws and no swallowing...

We got the bloods back, and he had renal failure, osteomyelitis in his jaw, a likely abscess/tumour in his throat making it unbearable to swallow and a new lump forming under his eye...

We called an emergency vet for an appointment and were gutted that we may have to put him to sleep in a foreign environment. Thankfully, our vet John called and offered to see us in his surgery that afternoon as he was on his way back into London from Surrey...

I will post a separate message in Rainbow Bridge... but suffice it to say, we are very, very sad......

I am so very sorry to hear your news about Mr. Binks, and support you totally in your decision to pts. It is a decision which requires so much unselfish love. You are very much in our thoughts.