Two Buns Dead- any ideas?

Yesterday, we came down to find two of our 4 buns dead.

Both were upto date with myxi and VHD vaccs.

Neither had seemed ill at all the day before - both ate and I watched them eat, as normal. Poos looked normal - straw coloured, dry, healthy and a good size. Both were drinking as normal and had access to unlimtied hay.

They have had no changes in their diet - and were all 4 of them half way through a large sack of food, which is stored in a closed bin and a bale of hay, which is stored on a wooden pallet inside an outhouse.

They had no green foods the previous day just some apple from our garden (unsprayed - and thoroughly cored).

As I say they showed no sign of even being off colour.

One is one of three in large hutches in a brick outhouse (the 2 survivors look fine), and the other had a large wooden shed to herself, to live in.

As it had been wet here all week, none of them ahd been out on the grass.

There was not a mark on the bodies, and we found them both stretched out.

Their eyes and noses looked clean.

What on earth did they die of? I am scared for my two survivors. There are foxes round here but as I say one in a shed and the other in an outhouse that is locked at night although it wasn't actually closed up til 1 am and my husband didn't see them (dark anyway) just locked up, so we don't know if they died in the night or early morning.

If it was one dying out of the blue, I wouldn't be so shocked - but 2 makes you think it's a disease. Although there are wild foxes round here and they weren't shut in til 1 am (they are in foxproof hutches anyway inside the outhouse), again 1 dying of fright may be feasible but not 2.

Both were 18 months old and had their last VHD/myxi about 2 months ago.

Are they related? Are the surviving buns bigger than the other buns? Could carbon monoxide be a possibility? Could something like coccidiosis be a possibility?

I'm really, really sorry for your losses. How very worrying and stressful for you. I hope you can find out the cause.

Have you considered getting post mortems done on them? Or one of them?

Is there any way they could have had access to or eaten something toxic by mistake? Slug pellets? Rat bait? just examples.

I'm so sorry for your loss how truly awful.

No they weren't related. One was an angora and one a mini rex. I just happened to get them both at the same time so they were the same age - but of the 4 buns we have they were the 2 furthest apart from eachother. Although thinking about it, I don't feed or clean them out in any particular order, so it's not likely an infection would go just between those 2 but not the 2 survivors, if you know what I mean?

It is so odd as I watch them closely and as I say no changes in the eating or drinking habits and they both looked lively as normal the day before. We just woke up to find them dead.

PM out of the question as they are both buried already.

We don't have any poisonous garden chemicals as I garden organically and nothing to do with the garden is stored where the buns live have never used weedkiller or slug bait in my life...

I do wonder if one of my teenagers fed them some dandelions/grass as he said he had fed them when I was out earlier in the day - and maybe accidentally gave them something poisonous? He adored them and spent a lot of time caring for them so if that is what happened, it would be tragic - although I did spend a lot of time teaching him what was safe for them...

The brick shed does back onto my neighbour's and the wooden shed is behind that too and they are motor bike nuts so often are tinkering about with engines and revving up machines, not far from where the buns are - could be the neighbour's son was using some dodgy chemical or other with fumes, early in the morning? As he's a mechanic and is always stripping engines down and revuilding them just yards away.

The surviving buns include one that's just a few months old and not fully grown. So odd he survived and the older one didn't.

I am sorry for your loss too - what a horrible shock! Hope your others will be OK, what did your vet say?

Not been to the vet yet - this just happened yesterday and my odlest son had come home (crisis at uni) and my neice just had a terrible thing happen to her too this weekend, so between my niece and my oldest son, I didn't get a minute to myself til last night. Will be taking another bun for his booster next week anyway so was going to ask vet then.

I use a veterinary grade disinfectant and am very careful around the buns as well as try to be observant - had they been off their food, or had weird poos they would have been down the vets instantly - both insured anyway - but as they seemed totally as per normal the last day, I had no reason to take them to the vet's.

I have heard of quite rapid deaths from Avocado being fed? They weren't given that by any chance were they?

It really must have been such a terrible shock. I'm so sorry

Thanks all for your kindness, btw.

No avocadoes. I do feed them papaya from time to time as a preventative for wool block. But she last had that over a week ago and has been having it often for the past year...? There are weeds in my lawn but I wasn't aware anything there is poisonous..? I did think of poisoning though as we used to keep poultry and years ago, the neighbours poisoned a particularly noisy duck we had, and when we found the buns something about the way they were reminded me of that.

I am sure it wasn't anything you did! I thought you may have rung them to discuss whats happened. After reading your other posts it does sound like it could have been possibly a chemical next door (fumes), do you get on with your neighbour to ask? It must be awful for you, I would hate this to happen to me. It's awful enough when one dies and you know the reason let alone not knowing. They are at peace now, hoping your others will be alright for you x

OMG they poisioned your duck!

FluffyBun said:

Thanks all for your kindness, btw.

No avocadoes. I do feed them papaya from time to time as a preventative for wool block. But she last had that over a week ago and has been having it often for the past year...? There are weeds in my lawn but I wasn't aware anything there is poisonous..? I did think of poisoning though as we used to keep poultry and years ago, the neighbours poisoned a particularly noisy duck we had, and when we found the buns something about the way they were reminded me of that.

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How awful to poison your poor duck What awful neighbours! :evil:

Most toxic plants are unlikely to cause issues in small amounts if consumed alongside other food and plants I believe. I think it is more about establishing a toxic threshold. :?
Unless you have ragwort growing or deadly night shade or digitalis for example I would be very surprised if something in your lawn, and you sound like a gardener so I can't imagine you missing one of the big poisons.
I can only think that they perhaps died of an acute bloat? fright? VHD? but they had been vacc'd :? or a congential condition and that the two deaths may be totally unrelated and pure chance? How awful for you though. I'm so sorry.

VickiP said:

OMG they poisioned your duck!

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That's what my dad thought at the time. He was like a ltitle dog - followed me everywhere, so I was heartbroken. Thanks again everyone who replied here xxx

My husband reckons the rigid wire on the run/hutch of one of them looks a bit indented - so it could have been a fox prowling before 1 am... but be a big coincidence for 2 to die of fright... Just been out and locked up the 2 remaining lads for the night, so will do it at dusk from now on. They both looks fine and lively, so far. Fingers crossed for them, bunny peeps xxxx

ETA: should add, the neighbours were in another place in the 1970s LOL. My present neighbour is lovely.

poor duck. some people are just disgusting :evil:

so sorry about finding your two rabbits passed away.

Is it poss to be VHD if they have been vaccinated - and, as I said, it was only a couple of months back? Booster for both as they had had the VHD vaccination before...

:wave: Not sure about that (VHD) -Glad you don't live next door to the duck murderers anymore.:evil: Just out of interest does your shed have ventilation aswell ?

maybe a postmortum would be a good idea. for two to die at exactly the same time...with no physical sypmtoms.......
i would b e worried for the other two at least you would then know what you dealing with.

btw. they poisioned your duck?:shock:
can't you report them to the police? damage to livestock (property?)

VickiP said:

:wave: Not sure about that (VHD) -Glad you don't live next door to the duck murderers anymore.:evil: Just out of interest does your shed have ventilation aswell ?

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Yes - in the case of the brick outhouse, it has a long window which is perspex and we made it so it slides fully open in the daytime. There are two doors either end both of which I leave propped open in the daytime, so it's like a windtunnel! Plus there are ventilation bricks that are clean and clear, both ends.

The bun that was in a shed to herself had a stable door with an inner wire mesh door and in the daytime we always opened up the top door, leaving a large area of wire mesh. But she generally spent a lot of time in the run - only not this past week due to the rain.

I'm sorry to hear you lost your bunnies.
I wonder if part of the food or hay could have been affected by mould or mycotoxins? Maybe these buns consumed more of the toxins, or were more susceptible to them
http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/myco.html

Obviously I'm not suggested you deliberately fed mouldy food or anything, I'm just thinking of other possibilities

I would be inclined to replace the food and hay just in case

So sorry for your loss binky free little buns

lilbun said:

I'm sorry to hear you lost your bunnies.
I wonder if part of the food or hay could have been affected by mould or mycotoxins? Maybe these buns consumed more of the toxins, or were more susceptible to them
http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/myco.html

Obviously I'm not suggested you deliberately fed mouldy food or anything, I'm just thinking of other possibilities

I would be inclined to replace the food and hay just in case

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Thanks, lilbun

I keep it in the outhouse, on a wooden pallet so the air circulates and their hay and straw is not obviously 'mouldy' or old smelling, but... reading that, it could be an explanation, so thanks for the heads up and will replace it tomorrow, to be on the safe side.