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View Full Version : Another Question Re VACCINATED Buns WHO HAVE DEVELOPED MYXOMATOSIS



Jack's-Jane
22-10-2009, 02:36 PM
PLEASE ONLY VOTE IF YOUR VACCINATED RABBIT ACTUALLY DEVELOPED MYXOMATOSIS


When the Vet gave the vaccination to your Rabbit did he/she do all of the injection into the scruff ie including the 10% intradermal part, the 10% into 1 earbase or the 10% part into both earbases ?

haffyj
22-10-2009, 02:37 PM
Mine were done in the scruff of the neck none in the ear not sure if they did 10% in the skin or not but i will ask next time

Buuny_Friend
22-10-2009, 02:39 PM
When the Vet gave the vaccination to your Rabbit did he/she do all of the injection into the scruff ie including the 10% intradermal part, the 10% into 1 earbase or the 10% part into both earbases ?

Some vets have done the 10% into the scruff (only when I asked them to do the 10%!)

Our savvy vet does it into 1 earbase. x

p.s. none of mine have developed myxi (*touch wood*!) but thought it would be good for a lot of people to answer to get some sort of statistics

PrincessPinky
22-10-2009, 02:40 PM
My buns havent got Myxi (thank god) but thoguht id answer anyway cuase im a bit worried now in case vet didnt vacinate mine properly, all he did was inject in the scuff of neck, no where else is that right? :shock:

Jack's-Jane
22-10-2009, 02:41 PM
Some vets have done the 10% into the scruff (only when I asked them to do the 10%!)

Our savvy vet does it into 1 earbase. x

p.s. none of mine have developed myxi (*touch wood*!) but thought it would be good for a lot of people to answer to get some sort of statistics

Thanks but this is really only for those whose Buns went on to develope Myxi.
I am wondering if its possible that we will see a higher percentage of vaccinated Rabbits who still develope Myxi when the 10% intradermal dose is only done into the scruff :?

Jack's-Jane
22-10-2009, 02:42 PM
My buns havent got Myxi (thank god) but thoguht id answer anyway cuase im a bit worried now in case vet didnt vacinate mine properly, all he did was inject in the scuff of neck, no where else is that right? :shock:


As long as 10% went into the Dermis

Buuny_Friend
22-10-2009, 02:44 PM
Thanks but this is really only for those whose Buns went on to develope Myxi.
I am wondering if its possible that we will see a higher percentage of vaccinated Rabbits who still develope Myxi when the 10% intradermal dose is only done into the scruff :?

Maybe the poll could include another option of NO intradermal dose (i.e. if the vet just administered the WHOLE dose deep into the scruff)? I am sure there are some out there who are guilty of this.

PrincessPinky
22-10-2009, 02:44 PM
As long as 10% went into the Dermis

Im not sure he just injected it quickly, i thinkk i need to find a more rabbit savvy vets :?:cry:

Jack's-Jane
22-10-2009, 02:45 PM
Maybe the poll could include another option of NO intradermal dose (i.e. if the vet just administered the WHOLE dose deep into the scruff)? I am sure there are some out there who are guilty of this.

There are.............

Starlight
22-10-2009, 02:52 PM
10% injected in earbase.

Angie65
22-10-2009, 02:56 PM
10% injected in earbase.

me too

halfpenny
22-10-2009, 03:04 PM
I think to make this a valid poll, you would need to look at, overall, how most vets vaccinate.
If for example most vets inject into one ear base, even though more rabbits may develop myxi with this technique, it may be less percentage wise.

Sorry, to be so fussy.

biscuitblossom
22-10-2009, 03:13 PM
Of the 3 that have developed myxi and are vaccinated 2 were vaccinated at my vets ( Diesel was done at Kirkby so I can't be sure about his) the 10% and the other part were done in the scruff by a vet I trust I hasten to add.

The vet I go to most (at the same practice )does 10% into the earbase usually.

Jack's-Jane
22-10-2009, 03:34 PM
I dont know if there is anything actually documented about this but FHB told my Vet that she believed it to be 'impossible' to get 10% into the dermis by injecting into the scruff. FHB did an 'experiment' injecting a dye (wont go into details as some folk would find it too :cry:) and FHB concluded that inadequate coverage was acheived by doing the 10% intradermal part anywhere but the earbase.
This convo took place during a CPD course my Vet attended about 3 years ago.

Bunny Buddy
22-10-2009, 03:42 PM
I dont know if there is anything actually documented about this but FHB told my Vet that she believed it to be 'impossible' to get 10% into the dermis by injecting into the scruff. FHB did an 'experiment' injecting a dye (wont go into details as some folk would find it too :cry:) and FHB concluded that inadequate coverage was acheived by doing the 10% intradermal part anywhere but the earbase.
This convo took place during a CPD course my Vet attended about 3 years ago.

In March FHB did the 10% in the scruff for Artie - absolutely no question she did it that was as she was talking me through what she was doing whilst she did it. She asked if they still did the 10% in ear base at the other vets I use. If I remember she said she prefers to give more than 10% to be on the safe side. Artie definitely had the same done in September. I wonder if she's changed her mind since above was said to giving a bigger dose intradermally in the scruff :? (Her colleague Ruth gives 10% in ear base).

Jack's-Jane
22-10-2009, 03:44 PM
In March FHB did the 10% in the scruff for Artie - absolutely no question she did it that was as she was talking me through what she was doing whilst she did it. She asked if they still did the 10% in ear base at the other vets I use. If I remember she said she prefers to give more than 10% to be on the safe side. Artie definitely had the same done in September. I wonder if she's changed her mind since above was said to giving a bigger dose intradermally in the scruff :? (Her colleague Ruth gives 10% in ear base).


Next time you see her could you ask :oops:

Bunny Buddy
22-10-2009, 03:45 PM
Next time you see her could you ask :oops:

:wave: I shall tell her 'Jane wants to know ...'

heffalump13a
22-10-2009, 03:46 PM
My two were down in the scruff with the 10% bit - vet talked me through it as she did it. However, there is some doubt whether or not the bunnies were already incubating virus :(

Jack's-Jane
22-10-2009, 03:47 PM
:wave: I shall tell her 'Jane wants to know ...'

:oops:

Show her this, it might win her over

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/Jan-bun/rabbits511-2.jpg

Phoebesmummy9
22-10-2009, 03:49 PM
So basically if the vet does the 10% intradermally in the neck, its basically not effective? :shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

Jack's-Jane
22-10-2009, 03:52 PM
So basically if the vet does the 10% intradermally in the neck, its basically not effective? :shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

If at least 10% goes into the dermis it should be effective.

parsnipbun
22-10-2009, 06:06 PM
My vet, who I rate is VERY rabbit savvy, and her colleague who I rate as the same, do it into the dermis of the neck. I have never asked her about the earbase. She comments on the difficulty of getting it into the dermis if you are inexperienced and generally does not trust non-experienced vets much to do this (she usually re-vaccinates mine if I get them from rescue just in case - not sure how Viola Rose missed on on this :( ).

Viola Rose was vaccinated before I got her and somehow missed out with the usual re-vaccination, so I don't know what happened with her (she was an RSPCA bun).

When Damson got his myxi years and years ago I suspect that was not with the 10% as we used a different vet then who did not know what they were doing rabbit wise.

PS ddid not vote in poll as answer is 'don't know' as far as Viola Rose goes.

doorkeeper
22-10-2009, 08:33 PM
Wasn't a vet that did it but me. I always give the intradermal part into the ear base, both ears if the rabbit wriggles too much and the needle slips out half way through:roll: Lately I have been practising giving part into the dermal layer on the scruff too as one of my vets told me that it is even more effective during an outbreak if most of the dose goes into the skin.

One rabbit who came down with myxo after I vaccinated her had lots of scabs but did not get ill. Her new owner hadn't even noticed when she brought her in for boarding as she is a lionhead with a long mane that was covering her ears where most of the scabs were. Her genitals were not affected. She had a few lumps on her back under her coat and one on her lip. She recovered without even antibiotics.

Another rabbit I vaccinated got it earlier in the year and similiarly recovered, although his partner lost the fight - she had been vaccinated by a vet.

I discovered atypical myxo in a rabbit from another rescue that was brought to me for health checking. He didn't become ill either, just had lumps on his ears. He had been vaccinated in the earbase too.

So far I haven't had any cases here, although I am rather expecting it as all the wild rabbits in the fields and woods behind the rescue have vanished after a few reports of myxo:(:(:(:(

oscarbunny
29-10-2009, 05:06 PM
10% was administered into the base of the ear for both Oscar and Polo. It should be noted that when they contracted myxi it was about a couple of weeks before their next vaccination was due (6 monthly).

Hope this helps Jane.

Just wondering Jane, not that I would condone FHB injecting a live rabbit with a dye.... i'm not sure how she could conclude that it is better to do it in the base of the ear if the rabbit she used had no circulation...? I understand that I am probably missing the point here as I know very little about rabbit medicine. And.... I should add that I would much prefer not to know the answer to my question if it at all involved experimentation of live rabbits as opposed to cadavers.

oscarbunny
29-10-2009, 05:13 PM
Also... might be worthwhile comparing the results of this thread with the results from a thread of overall how rabbits have been given their myxi jab. It may be that there is a higher percentage of rabbits given the jab 10% base of ear and not as many given it in the scruff??!?

All in all, very interesting and I will be following closely. Thanks for doing this Jane.

Hugbut
29-10-2009, 05:40 PM
I haven't voted because I'm not sure what catergory Hugo would be in. 10% of his vaccine was always administered intradermally but not on his ear, the vet put it on his scruff where the rest of the injection was put in :?

VikkiVet
29-10-2009, 06:36 PM
I agree with some other posts - its not really clear in the poll which option "10% into the dermis of the scruff" is, and which would be "all of the vaccine deep under the scruff"

I havent voted as my girls havent had myxi

Also, as experienced vets can essentially do the dermal part as they draw back, it may be very hard for the owner to judge if it was done or not, which would skew the results. most people i know dont know that that is what the vet is doing, and dont notice him/her doing it.

Just thought i would mention that as it would cause a statistical bias

Would be interested in the results tho. i've never seen a vet put it into the ear - in some ways its more difficult and prone to greater error, and more stressful for the rabbit.

Jack's-Jane
29-10-2009, 06:39 PM
I agree with some other posts - its not really clear in the poll which option "10% into the dermis of the scruff" is, and which would be "all of the vaccine deep under the scruff"

I havent voted as my girls havent had myxi

Also, as experienced vets can essentially do the dermal part as they draw back, it may be very hard for the owner to judge if it was done or not, which would skew the results. most people i know dont know that that is what the vet is doing, and dont notice him/her doing it.

Just thought i would mention that as it would cause a statistical bias

Would be interested in the results tho. i've never seen a vet put it into the ear - in some ways its more difficult and prone to greater error, and more stressful for the rabbit.

Could you explain why as I would have thought it was easier to feel (and see!!) the needle going into the Dermis in an earbase :?

*Spider*
29-10-2009, 06:41 PM
:shock:
Damian always puts the vaccine in the earbase.

Jack's-Jane
29-10-2009, 06:43 PM
:shock:
Damian always puts the vaccine in the earbase.

So does Christobel and its also how the Vaccine manufacturer advises it is administered.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Intervet_Schering-Plough/Nobivac_Myxo/-29531.html

Bunny Buddy
16-03-2010, 08:49 PM
Next time you see her could you ask :oops:

Finally got round to discussing this, for anybody interested.

And I've been searching for the thread for ages too :oops::oops:

I don't think FHB has any strong belief that either ear or scuff is a more effective place to inject just uses the scruff as it's less uncomfortable for the rabbit. She explained that as she puts the needle into the dermis she uses her fingers to feel the needle under the skin so knows it's in the right place. I'm guessing it would be easier to be sure in the ear than in the scruff for anybody who is less confident.

Jack's-Jane
16-03-2010, 08:52 PM
Finally got round to discussing this, for anybody interested.

And I've been searching for the thread for ages too :oops::oops:

I don't think FHB has any strong belief that either ear or scuff is a more effective place to inject just uses the scruff as it's less uncomfortable for the rabbit. She explained that as she puts the needle into the dermis she uses her fingers to feel the needle under the skin so knows it's in the right place. I'm guessing it would be easier to be sure in the ear than in the scruff for anybody who is less confident.

Thank you for the info and for the PM :wave:

Bunny Buddy
16-03-2010, 08:59 PM
Thank you for the info and for the PM :wave:

You're welcome. I was absolutely convinced it was Kris who started this thread with the poll, so it's taken a while to find it again.

I've started worrying about flying insects again now after my conversation today :oops::oops:

Jack's-Jane
16-03-2010, 09:03 PM
You're welcome. I was absolutely convinced it was Kris who started this thread with the poll, so it's taken a while to find it again.

I've started worrying about flying insects again now after my conversation today :oops::oops:

I have been hanging Fly Papers today :cry:

Daisylop
17-03-2010, 08:58 AM
didnt read post:oops::oops:

bunlover
17-03-2010, 10:38 AM
Finally got round to discussing this, for anybody interested.

And I've been searching for the thread for ages too :oops::oops:

I don't think FHB has any strong belief that either ear or scuff is a more effective place to inject just uses the scruff as it's less uncomfortable for the rabbit. She explained that as she puts the needle into the dermis she uses her fingers to feel the needle under the skin so knows it's in the right place. I'm guessing it would be easier to be sure in the ear than in the scruff for anybody who is less confident.
that is almost exactly what jasons says to us, he does it in scruff but checks that the 10% is definatly in there by feeling the needle, i know him and fhb are in contact regarding rabbit issues as i know they both consulted regarding my first ever rabbit. just a thought but if mum votes too you will have an extra "scruff" reference because chelsea was "our" rabbit.... sorry!! didint think befoer i voted... nb i have had buns done in their ear by other vets and have to say its left lumps for a long time and buns seem much more relaxed when its done in the scruff.... x

Angie65
17-03-2010, 10:52 AM
I have been hanging Fly Papers today :cry:


I've had 'em up all winter - paranoid city here. I've got my jabs staggered, so somebuns jabs will be at most effective at some times & some at others, so it hopefully won't affect everybun in one go if I do get it here again, & I brought my May & Jun jabs forward to April....booked 'em in for just after payday.

Stephy
17-03-2010, 01:32 PM
Tilly was done in the scruff only :wave:

Bunny Buddy
20-03-2010, 10:23 AM
I found this on the Net while browsing last night:

http://www.galensgarden.co.uk/herbivores/health/vaccination.php

"I have received phone calls from several people who's rabbits have been vaccinated against myxomatosis and yet have still been infected. Some quite severely with lesions to the nose and ears which have caused parts of the ears or nose to drop off. In one thread on the Rabbit Rehome forum, Jack's-Jane is getting some data together regarding intradermal exposure to the vaccine following a study by experienced rabbit vet Frances Harcourt Brown which indicates the vaccine must be given in 3 places, the base of each ear and in the scruff."

I don't know if it refers to this thread but 3 places? :?