Suspected Spinal problem. UD Post 22

This is a long term thing and happened a minimum of two weeks ago. So none of the instant treatments are relevant and useful unfortunately.

I'm wondering if anyone can tell me anything you might do/try to treat/ease a potential spinal problem.

The symptoms seem to be pain of some sort, left leg 'laziness', right leg less lazy but not right, unable to get to her butt, unable to balance very well when cleaning, unable to lift her tail probably to urinate(she has a wet tail, so not sure if thats due to this or if she is sitting in it or dribbling it, but she can do a good and fine wee when she wants), pulsating anus (this is really weird to see) when turned on her back, at the least, erm, unable to clean her left eye, unable to probably groom her left leg. Her left side is worse than her right, but both of her back legs are wrong.

She can walk and hop, but its not as a normal bun would do. She is currently on Metacam and Baytril for suspected UTI.

She has seen a vet but its only today, after seeing her tail not lift properly that I'm seriously considering that this may be spinal. She is bright in herself now she is on painmeds, which is super important.

Can a rabbit break their tail? Might that cause this?

I don't think a broken tail would cause such extensive symptoms :? My first rabbit broke her tail when I was a child (I stood on it and it snapped clean off )

How are her front paws? I might be just being tired and lazy but no matter how many times I read your post I can't figure out how her front legs are?? sorry.

I certainly would not recommend any manipulations of any kind. Xrays I think will be important initial diagnostics and anti-inflammatories which it sounds like she is on already. Ideally an MRI but they cost.
It could be upper CNS or lower (spinal) or vascular (stroke) or even PNS? I think with rabbits and without a MRI it is hard to tell.
Poor little girl

Thank you for the speedy reply

I didn't write anything about her front paws, so that wasn't you, that was me :lol: They are good and fine and normal.

The problem is the ownership of this bunny. She is not mine, and the current 'owner' is only a fosterer (hence making me a fosters fosterer), but I'm not sure the true owner would go with this. It may be too expensive.

I have to hold her as gently as possible to dry her tail because obviously sitting in the damp and wet is not a good thing. I haven't yet been able to work out how to do this without turning her over and carefully holding her.

Is it worth waiting to see if the anti-bios work for now? She seems much more comfortable now than she did two days ago.

She's in tiny accommodation (only a 4ft by 1ft hutch) with everything reachable, so she doesn't have to do much, although before that she was in a large enclosure where she had to jump up into her hutch and such, which obviously wouldn't have helped.

I want to help her so much and make things better for her. I've never come across spinal problems with any of mine before so this is all new territory.

Thank you

Hi, just re-reading your post, a few things have come to mind - nothing concrete though. It's so hard with rabbits, i'm not even sure their neuroanatomy is like ours?
Could it be a manifestation of E.C?
Is it possible she overextended her spine one day jumping around and has a prolapsed disc somewhere halfway down her spine which is affecting everything below it? or particular nerve roots? including those that supply her back legs, coccyx of course? Do her symptoms change or vary or are they constant?
If there is nerve damage - could it be that it is musculoskeletal in origin and a muscle in spasm is irritating certain nerves?
If her previous life was one of neglect/abuse perhaps she could have been injured or dropped in some way? Was there any sudden or definite times of onset of symptoms? Or are they gradual? A space occupying lesion of some sort would, to me, perhaps be more indicative of slow onset rather than acute onset...which I would associate with an injury, or vascular episode if it were upper CNS (brain).
Even Spondylosis might be a possibility? I think she needs a good bunny vet and perhaps some more diagnostics to rule out the obvious things like UTI and referred pain from here or elsewhere?
I really am just guessing here and am not a vet obviously

I should think that carrying on with antibiotics and pain relief is very sensible to rule out any infectious agents and will help with any pain. Especially if she seems more comfortable already. No doubt part of this is being with someone who is meeting all her needs and giving her lots of tlc.

ETA could she just be arthritic or weak from poor lifestyle/diet? and the NSAID's have helped already?

Thank you

Yes, EC was my main fear (for my own), but from everything I heard heard about it, this seems to differ, although I appreciate that that does not rule it out. For instance, from what the guy I know in the US who researched it has said, the anti-inflammatory would not help with it because it is muscle wastage and a wasting disease, not inflammation. She is under the highest level of quarantine I have ever given a bun 'just in case'.

Her urine symptoms seem to differ, but nothing else does. Sometimes she is wet and sometimes she is dry (but that has only been since Friday, other than that I have seen no evidence of urine problems at all), but that raises a lot of questions as to why (is she sitting in it sometimes, is she dribbling, etc). I think because that onset came a long time after the initial symptoms, that is what made the vet consider a UTI. Also, since coming away from the place, the first day she drunk a load, and today she drunk less, and not loads more than the average rabbit I have here. She moved from bowls to bottles at some point in September so possible she couldn't use a bottle which has prompted some of these urinary symptoms.

Her legs seem to remain the same. The other thing I forgot to add with since she has had these problems her weight has plummeted from 1.9kg to 1.55kg in not very many weeks. This could easily be due to pain and lack of eating, so therefore not able to maintain her body temp at night and it dropping off her

I have known her since the start of August, and she only started to have problems mid September. Before then I recall no problems with her legs at all (which was our first sign something was wrong).

Thank you for all the thoughts. My vet is the best in the area but I know that me and my buns have taken him on a steep learning curve already. I'm not sure hw would know what to do for this bun.

I've had a couple of buns with suspected infections who dragged their back feet to some extent. Both came on some time after spay ops, but this could be coincidental

One was really bad and could barely stand, but the other was just a bit wobbly and couldn't jump into a litter tray without clipping her toes on sides and stuff like that.

So...I definitely agree that antibiotics and pain meds are a good idea

I think I'd also treat with panacur if you aren't doing already

I agree with prettylupin that it's unlikely to be a tail break...I've seen a rabbit have it's tail pulled clean off by another rabbit (not my rabbits!) without any resulting spinal issues

Thank you abbymarysmokey.

In terms of the anti-biotics, is it worthwhile getting something more effective than Baytril? I know you mentioned the Penicillin before, do you still think that is appropriate?

I have had two of my rabbits spayed by the same vet as this rabbit was spayed by and they did both have UTIs after, but Rosie was spayed back in July and her symptoms didn't start until September, unless being switched from a bowl to a bottle exaccerbated the problems and made it worse (she is now back on bowls, obviously).

I agree that panacur along with the baytril and metacam is worth a try. I wouldn't put a poorly bunny through too many diagnostics but think the basics such as bloods, conscious x-ray adn urine sample could be done without too much stress and may provide more answers.

I have replied to your pm too :wave:

Sky-O said:

Thank you abbymarysmokey.

In terms of the anti-biotics, is it worthwhile getting something more effective than Baytril? I know you mentioned the Penicillin before, do you still think that is appropriate?

I have had two of my rabbits spayed by the same vet as this rabbit was spayed by and they did both have UTIs after, but Rosie was spayed back in July and her symptoms didn't start until September, unless being switched from a bowl to a bottle exaccerbated the problems and made it worse (she is now back on bowls, obviously).

Click to expand...

Baytril is very effective for UTI infections so I think stick with that for now and see if there is any improvement

That's brilliant. Thanks for much Liz.

Having read about the recent spay I am wondering about this now too. I expect irritation of the urethra/bladder and upper urinary tracts are probably quite common post-spay. Inflammation alone can cause a little incontinence. Potentially some transitory nerve damage/inflammation post-spay as well?
Have also pm'd you back.

Good luck with it all :wave:

It would be great if it was something so 'simple', well, more simple than the spinal stuff. fingers crossed the Baytril will start to work soon then. She started on Saturday so I'm hoping for improvement in the next couple of days.

I've found baytril to be really good for UTIs. Personally I wouldn't bother trying to get a c&s from urine because the bacteria that causes UTIs in rabbits die on contact with air...unfortunately I found this out the hard way after spending hundreds of pounds trying to get a decent urine sample from a rabbit! :roll:

That is very useful info. Thank you!

Today she is dry and she is not smelling either, which is a good sign, but goes with the up and down signs I have seen.

Some of the symptoms that you describe here are like my Inca.

I have had her for 5 weeks now. (she is the bunny with her tail burnt off with chemicals - from kayj). Since being at the vets, it may be that she was actually born with no tail and a deformed back area, and urine scald caused the 'burnt with chemicals' idea. She has a kinda slimmer gait than most bunnies at the back, and she is a funny shape. She cant clean herself in the praying fashion of most bunnies, she has to do one hand at a time and she cant stand up on her back legs. She does manage to hop about and jump in and out of the cage etc.

When i first got her she had urine scald. Her back fur where her tail should be and her back paws were very wet at times. I was washing twice a day and applying fusiderm cream, which did help.....until she hurt her toe.

Following hurting her toe on her back foot she would hold her back paw up and kinda sit on her bum where her tail would be....she would do this in the litter tray, which would make her wet on herself. Maybe your bun is 'sitting down' at times due to having sore legs at the back and wetting on herself on occasion.

Inca is now on Baytril & Metacam, which has helped alot with her toe and I think she had a UTI as she is alot dryer underneath now, so i think the Baytril is good for a UTI too....dont know what will happen when she comes off them both on wednesday!!!

To help to her dry before, i used to feed her then put my hand under her with kitchen roll, like i was wiping her bum!

So, although i dont have any answers as such, i think that the wetness might be related to the weakness in the legs.

Sorry for long post!

This does make me wonder if she has something like spondylitis. Bramble, one of our first bunnies became completely paralysed one day, back then I may have missed a progression of symptoms, especially if they were gradual.
However we had her x-rayed and she had spondylitis, she never recovered and then began to lose at lot of weight, so I'm not sure if something else was going on, but if your bunny is not using her muscles, there will be a certain amount of weight loss due to this.
I agree with Liz, and an x-ray and urine sample should be the first things to do, to try and determine what is going on, I do realise though it is not you rabbit so this may be difficult to get done.
Good luck.

Thank you. This is all very useful. Google is being my friend because some of these conditions I had not heard of, or had heard of but didn't know much about. What a steep learning curve I am on!

Her appetite has deterioriated severely today and so I have her booked in first thing tomorrow. She is still eating hay and stuffed a load of grass and dandelion leaves, but no interest in pellets. Given how skinny she is, she needs all the food she can get and being off pellets is not a good thing. I will raise these concerns then.

Oh no Sending Rosie lots of vibes. I really hope the vets can help her tomorrow xx

Poor girl Her symptoms sound very similar to my bun Foofoo, she has a deformed neck and part of her spine is trying to fuse together which causes her pain, incontinence and her stomach is distended a lot of the time. Her weight has also dropped and one of her back legs sticks out at an odd angle.

Foofoo is being treated with a high dose of metacam and we've just started her on urilin syrup to see if it helps with her incontinence. She still uses her litter tray to wee when she can and she can still run and jump but not the same as she used to and she doesn't binky anymore although she seems happy most of the time especially if i'm bringing her yummy food

Good luck at the vets and I hope shes doing better soon