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Medical advice needed, help prep me for the vets please!

**Ilovelops**

Alpha Buck
Following on from this thread:
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=199883

I'm wanting to get as much knowledge as to what to do for the best for my two bunnies as is possible.

I've got two bunnies (Snowy and Babe, my netherlands) have been suffering from snuffles for some weeks now. They've been on baytril via injection and orally, with little success.
What's the most powerful and successful treatment needed to fight this awful condition?
Please help me and my babies :(
 
Its not a case of 'the most powerful' abx but the one that is most effective against the specific bacteria involved.

Deep nasal swabs are one option to identify the bacteria. But this often involves a GA -not ideal for a Bun with 'active' Snuffles and the results can give a false negative.

My Vet uses other abx such as Septrin or Depocillin INJECTIONS.
Some people have found a long acting Tetracyline (Engemycin LA) to be useful.

With Nethies elongated tooth roots can be the actual cause of the Respiratory tract symptoms. The tooth roots overgrow and can penetrate the nasal passages. Skull radiographs would be required to establish if this were to be the case for your Buns. If it was then regular Dentals to keep the teeth burred short will help reduce the rate of tooth root elongation. But the 'Snuffles' symptoms will be a life-long recurring problem.

A mucolytic such as Bisolvon can help thin out the mucus secretions and giving abx via a nebuliser can also be beneficial.

Good luck at the Vets
 
Its not a case of 'the most powerful' abx but the one that is most effective against the specific bacteria involved.

Deep nasal swabs are one option to identify the bacteria. But this often involves a GA -not ideal for a Bun with 'active' Snuffles and the results can give a false negative.

My Vet uses other abx such as Septrin or Depocillin INJECTIONS.
Some people have found a long acting Tetracyline (Engemycin LA) to be useful.

With Nethies elongated tooth roots can be the actual cause of the Respiratory tract symptoms. The tooth roots overgrow and can penetrate the nasal passages. Skull radiographs would be required to establish if this were to be the case for your Buns. If it was then regular Dentals to keep the teeth burred short will help reduce the rate of tooth root elongation. But the 'Snuffles' symptoms will be a life-long recurring problem.

A mucolytic such as Bisolvon can help thin out the mucus secretions and giving abx via a nebuliser can also be beneficial.

Good luck at the Vets

Thank you for taking the time to give such brilliant advice. :love:
I'd be lying if I said I understood everything you said (I feel a bit overwhelmed :oops: ). If you were me, what would you want done as the next step?
Many thanks once again. I can't say how much I appreciate your help x
 
Thank you for taking the time to give such brilliant advice. :love:
I'd be lying if I said I understood everything you said (I feel a bit overwhelmed :oops: ). If you were me, what would you want done as the next step?
Many thanks once again. I can't say how much I appreciate your help x

It's ok to feel overwhelmed. How about asking questions about what you don't understand?

When your buns are ill and you don't know which way to turn or what to do next it can feel overwhelming for anyone.
 
I have no personal experience of snuffles but as far as i'm aware if Baytril alone is ineffective you must not feel there is nothing more to be done, this is simply not true. A good vet will be willing to begin to pursue other options if the standard protocols don't work.

Pain relief can be tried in the form of a NSAID to reduce inflammation and swelling and help bun fight the infection.
A stronger antibiotic and a more appropriate antibiotic. But you would need probably a culture of bacteria taken from high up in the nose - this may be possible without anaesthetic but these swabs can be contaminated by the bacteria in the outer nose and may give inaccurate results, it is not always possible either to get the swab high enough in a conscious rabbit, and in a snuffly bun may not be such a good idea anyway. Provided the chest is clear a GA will enable a vet to reach the top of the nose by access through the back of the throat and up the nasal cavity this way.
However, I think your buns will need to be off Baytril for atleast 10 days in order to get an accurate result as current antibiotics have the potential to distort the culture.
There are many other antibiotics that can be tried from injectable penacillins, engemycin, cephalosporins, septrin etc but require vet discretion to administer for rabbits - hence the need for a good vet again.
I think Bisolvon is very useful for thinning the mucus in the nose and other respiratory passageways to allow the antibiotics to reach the bacteria.

Thumps has often explained the open connections between all sinus cavities, the eyes and the ears and that therefore there are many potential nooks and crannies for the bacteria to hide in. Some people find antibiotic eye drops access the bacteria that hide in the nasolacrimal duct.
A good combination of antibiotics both orally and systemically and even sometimes given via a nebulising chamber - appropriate for the particular offending bacteria - should help to reach all those respiratory pathogens hiding away in the far to reach areas of the connected sinuses.

Some other people have found adding drops of Echinacea to bunny's water can help to boost the immune system. It has certainly helped my bun with his allergic rhinitis.
Keeping stress to a minimum, fluids up, any pain under control, and a good diet to boost the immune system are all part of the holistic approach to helping bunny fight any infection.
Most importantly, this is not the end of the road and you have many other avenues left to explore before giving up on your buns so don't feel so disheartened. I'm sure there is something out there that can help. A good bunny-savvy vet is the best place to start. Good luck :):wave:
 
Oops others have beaten me to it. I forgot the issue of tooth root elongation involvement as Jane pointed out.

I think your next step right now is to find a good vet first of all. Let us know where in the country you are and we'll see if we can suggest someone?
 
Thank you :) It's really helping to know that I shouldn't give up on my babies, unlike my vets attitude seems to be, which is 'it's something rabbits get, nothing can be done!'.
They are only a year old. They shouldn't have to be this poorly :(

ETA: I am in Brighouse, West Yorkshire.
I'm willing to travel anywhere, and pay anything to get them better!
 
Just to add, I have noticed that Babe has started getting 'short tempered' a bit with Snowy. Grunting and getting very overprotective with him. I blamed it on her feeling under the weather with this illness. However, could this situation be considered stressful? Should I split the two up? They do sleep snuggled together etc, do have the odd grump with each other, and I have found tuffs of Snowy's fur on occasion (not sure if its moult, or whether she's just getting grumpy with him?).
I'm so stressed!!
 
Just to add, I have noticed that Babe has started getting 'short tempered' a bit with Snowy. Grunting and getting very overprotective with him. I blamed it on her feeling under the weather with this illness. However, could this situation be considered stressful? Should I split the two up? They do sleep snuggled together etc, do have the odd grump with each other, and I have found tuffs of Snowy's fur on occasion (not sure if its moult, or whether she's just getting grumpy with him?).
I'm so stressed!!


Is Babe Spayed ?

It would be great if you could take them here

http://www.any-uk-vet.co.uk/harcourt-brown/
 
It's very important that you, bunny mum, stay as calm as possible :) Our buns are very sensitive to our emotions. When I am stressed or anxious my female bun also plays up a bit.
She is spayed isn't she?
 
She's in Newcastle

FHB is in Yorkshire :)

I am not a Rabbit Savvy Vet Stalker btw !!

:lol:
Oops :oops: I'm clearly NOT a rabbit savvy vet stalker as am obviously clueless! :lol:
Oh...and you've also asked the spayed question! :oops: I think i'm going to just leave this to you so we don't confuse the OP who is stressed enough without me confusing things! :oops:

Good luck - if you can get to Frances HB then that would be excellent for your buns. :D
 
:lol:
Oops :oops: I'm clearly NOT a rabbit savvy vet stalker as am obviously clueless! :lol:
Oh...and you've also asked the spayed question! :oops: I think i'm going to just leave this to you so we don't confuse the OP who is stressed enough without me confusing things! :oops:

Good luck - if you can get to Frances HB then that would be excellent for your buns. :D

:lol::lol::lol:

It was a good question to ask about her being spayed though, because her behaviour is def one of an unspayed rabbit! Very hormonal? Can you still get that in spayed rabbits? Is there a way of checking she's definitely spayed?
I'm sooo questioning everything about my rabbit caring abilities at the mo!
 
:lol::lol::lol:

It was a good question to ask about her being spayed though, because her behaviour is def one of an unspayed rabbit! Very hormonal? Can you still get that in spayed rabbits? Is there a way of checking she's definitely spayed?
I'm sooo questioning everything about my rabbit caring abilities at the mo!

That's something I've been through with my RSPCA adopted 'spayed' girlie too! Battery getting low...hang on and i'll explain!

The answer is YES. BUT, and it is a big but, health issues can manifest as behavioural problems so it will be very difficult to tell. How long have you had her? Is she well socialised or a nervous rescue? This will help me to identify some relevant issues.

ETA and how old is she and how long have they been bonded?
 
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FHB is an amazing vet and would probably restore your hope for your buns and faith in vets and also calm you down in one fell swoop because she knows so much about buns.

As for you, it is SO super hard when your buns are ill and all you want in the world is for them to be better. It is really important that you stay calm though, because they can pick up on how stressed you are, which can stress them further, so make sure you are doing things that relax you and doing your best to not be stressed (easier said than done, for sure), both for your sake and theirs.
 
That's something I've been through with my RSPCA adopted 'spayed' girlie too! Battery getting low...hang on and i'll explain!

The answer is YES. BUT, and it is a big but, health issues can manifest as behavioural problems so it will be very difficult to tell. How long have you had her? Is she well socialised or a nervous rescue? This will help me to identify some relevant issues.

ETA and how old is she and how long have they been bonded?

She's always been quite a nervous character (will run to the back of the shed/run if you go near, but fine once being carried/handled)
She has been bonded to Snowy for 5 months now.
He's completely the oppose of her character. Very relaxing and confident with people.
 
FHB is an amazing vet and would probably restore your hope for your buns and faith in vets and also calm you down in one fell swoop because she knows so much about buns.

As for you, it is SO super hard when your buns are ill and all you want in the world is for them to be better. It is really important that you stay calm though, because they can pick up on how stressed you are, which can stress them further, so make sure you are doing things that relax you and doing your best to not be stressed (easier said than done, for sure), both for your sake and theirs.

Thank you. You have a really good point. I guess when I'm around them, I'm just so sad and feeling guilty. They must pick up on that :(

I'm just arranging by text with my bf seeing if he could get us over to Harrogate on Saturday (soonest I could go with work).
It would only be weekends I could take them over, but I really want to go to this vets! Would it be possible to treat them at a vets I can only get to at a weekend?
So many questions :( I'm sorry
 
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